43 replies to this topic

[Sedmeister]

Almost finished listening to the lastest NGNG podcast. Was listening to discussion by devs on the state of LRM's.

I agree with all that was said but with two significant reservations.

First, I don't mind where LRM's are at, EXCEPT for the fact that I need to buy several nodes of stuff that is irrelevant to me in order to get full radar dep. So I am happy for PGI to leave LRM's where they are or even buff them further, as long as I get some kind of discount on the nodes I am forced to purchase in order to get full radar dep.

Secondly, I am more than happy with the state of LRM's, WHEN IT COMES TO FP! In FP, we get to see the map before we drop, and we have several minutes give or take to discuss strategy and how we may counter LRM heavy opposition.

The utter frustration is in QP. You see Polar as an option and already you are freaking out because the more experienced players as a rule don't bring LRM's or EMC (Why waste a ton and a half on AMS and ammo when you can find a perfectly good building or hill to stand next to for a few seconds?) and are anxiously hoping that Polar doesn't win. Drop with a brawler on Polar and I TOTALLY understand why people suicide these days (I don't for the record, I just treat it like an horrific cross between an episode of Minecraft crossed with BF1).

So I don't mind the current state of LRM's if PGI made it possible for me to choose which mech I bring to QP after the map has been selected a la FP.

End rant.

Edited by Sedmeister, 07 August 2018 - 02:45 PM.

[K O Z A K]

Easy solution: play fp dont play qp many have adopted that approach and have kept a lot more of their sanity intact as a result

[Athom83]

Sedmeister, on 07 August 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

So I don't mind the current state of LRM's if PGI made it possible for me to choose which mech I bring to QP after the map has been selected a la FP.

No. This just promotes toxic play and metagaming to specific maps. You want to see constant 12 v 12 LRM duels on Polar LRMland? You want to see everyone in ERLL/ERPPC snipers on Frozen City? You want cheese to become the norm?

[Sedmeister]

Hazeclaw, on 07 August 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

Easy solution: play fp dont play qp many have adopted that approach and have kept a lot more of their sanity intact as a result

When the population of FP climbs again and I am not waiting ages for a game, I will heed your advice!

Athom83, on 07 August 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

No. This just promotes toxic play and metagaming to specific maps. You want to see constant 12 v 12 LRM duels on Polar LRMland? You want to see everyone in ERLL/ERPPC snipers on Frozen City? You want cheese to become the norm?

Um, did you listen to the podcast?

[Andi Nagasia]

if anyone has problems with LRMs, and they are becoming a problem for you,
please bring AMS or ECM or Redar Dep, any of these 3(+ any mech high Rock) can stop LRMs,

dont want to bring Radar Dep, or cant bring ECM?
bring AMS, if you hear Missile warning move to cover and then turn off AMS,
the AMS will shoot down the first couple missiles, and give you more time to get to cover,
turning it off after in cover will save you your AMS ammo,

this way 2tons can make LRM nearly useless, sadly

[Athom83]

Sedmeister, on 07 August 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

Um, did you listen to the podcast?

No, but from what I've experienced in other games where you can select after match start (and in FW to an extent) and how I see people play currently, QP will essentially become a mass of cheese unlike ever before seen.

[K O Z A K]

Sedmeister, on 07 August 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

When the population of FP climbs again and I am not waiting ages for a game, I will heed your advice!)

Be a part of the solution for real though when grouped with a few peeps drops are usually fast to find, solo might have to wait between a little and forever because you're getting que jumped by groups

[Prototelis]

I don't mind them.

Neat to have to consider pathing instead of just full bore charging a potato boat.

The problem with lrms is that IDF encourages people to sit behind their team for big numbers and that actively drives losses.

[Khobai]

Quote

The problem with lrms is that IDF encourages people to sit behind their team for big numbers and that actively drives losses.

the only problem with that is the people at the front dont get good enough rewards for spotting.

spotters/taggers/narcers should get rewarded like 50% of the damage for spotting for indirect LRMs. because IDF requires more than one mech. A missile boat and a spotter. So the spotter should get half the reward.

itd be perfectly fine for missile boats to be in the back as long as the people in the front taking all the risk get properly rewarded for it. which isnt the case now.

Edited by Khobai, 07 August 2018 - 07:08 PM.

[Vellron2005]

Sedmeister, on 07 August 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

The utter frustration is in QP. You see Polar as an option and already you are freaking out because the more experienced players as a rule don't bring LRM's or EMC

And what do you think how does a LRM boat feel when playing QP and both Rubelltie and Solaris come up? Or HPG?

It works both ways pal..

I've been known to pick HPG OVER POLAR when Rubellite or Solaris are also on offer, just to avoid the bigger of the two evils.

Thinking in the terms of "oh, I brought a brawler to the one and only map in the game that is LRM friendly, so let's nerf LRMs or get more counters against them" is selfish.

I could easily then say that I want extra armor on my LRM boats because there's a chance i drop it on Solaris.

Nonsense.

Khobai, on 07 August 2018 - 07:01 PM, said:

the only problem with that is the people at the front dont get good enough rewards for spotting.

spotters/taggers/narcers should get rewarded like 50% of the damage for spotting for indirect LRMs. because IDF requires more than one mech. A missile boat and a spotter. So the spotter should get half the reward.

itd be perfectly fine for missile boats to be in the back as long as the people in the front taking all the risk get properly rewarded for it. which isnt the case now.

I agree with this. And not just Narc/Tag spotters.

Anytime I hit a target that I could not normally lock because of you spotting it for me with the R key - you should be rewarded.

But not in damage. We already have spotting rewards. Simply buff those.

Edited by Vellron2005, 08 August 2018 - 12:36 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

First, I don't mind where LRM's are at, EXCEPT for the fact that I need to buy several nodes of stuff that is irrelevant to me in order to get full radar dep.

Radar Dep is so good that it needs to cost that many skill points to get.

Otherwise everyone would get it and there would be no tradeoff

Just like when it was a module

[Sedmeister]

Hazeclaw, on 07 August 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

Be a part of the solution for real though when grouped with a few peeps drops are usually fast to find, solo might have to wait between a little and forever because you're getting que jumped by groups

For the record, I try FP games (scouting and invasion) in between QP matches. Trying to find groups in my time zone is a little challenging, but yeah, big fan of the mode and I queue often.

[Savage Wolf]

Athom83, on 07 August 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

No. This just promotes toxic play and metagaming to specific maps. You want to see constant 12 v 12 LRM duels on Polar LRMland? You want to see everyone in ERLL/ERPPC snipers on Frozen City? You want cheese to become the norm?

How would that not be a drastic improvement in build diversity over the current situation where builds that are only good on a few maps are never used while the few that are always decent are the only ones being seen. PGI could even make new maps catering to other specific types of builds so we would see them as well.

How would this not be really awesome?

[Sedmeister]

Khobai, on 07 August 2018 - 07:01 PM, said:

the only problem with that is the people at the front dont get good enough rewards for spotting.

spotters/taggers/narcers should get rewarded like 50% of the damage for spotting for indirect LRMs. because IDF requires more than one mech. A missile boat and a spotter. So the spotter should get half the reward.

itd be perfectly fine for missile boats to be in the back as long as the people in the front taking all the risk get properly rewarded for it. which isnt the case now.

Might want to listen to the podcast, some big changes to targeting LRM's on the way soon. Gonna be some salty tears from the diehard LRM'ers methinks...

Vellron2005, on 08 August 2018 - 12:34 AM, said:

And what do you think how does a LRM boat feel when playing QP and both Rubelltie and Solaris come up? Or HPG?

It works both ways pal..

I've been known to pick HPG OVER POLAR when Rubellite or Solaris are also on offer, just to avoid the bigger of the two evils.

Thinking in the terms of "oh, I brought a brawler to the one and only map in the game that is LRM friendly, so let's nerf LRMs or get more counters against them" is selfish.

I could easily then say that I want extra armor on my LRM boats because there's a chance i drop it on Solaris.

Nonsense.



I agree with this. And not just Narc/Tag spotters.

Anytime I hit a target that I could not normally lock because of you spotting it for me with the R key - you should be rewarded.

But not in damage. We already have spotting rewards. Simply buff those.

Oh, you're a LURMER...

Khobai, on 08 August 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

Radar Dep is so good that it needs to cost that many skill points to get.

Otherwise everyone would get it and there would be no tradeoff

Just like when it was a module

No not just like when it was a module. When it was a module, I saved up and bought the module. I wasn't forced to buy mudflaps, windsheld wipers and a bunch of other useless stuff before I could get my hands on the radar dep mod, I just saved up and bought the thing I wanted. That's my point. Happy to pay for radar dep, I just would prefer if PGI asked me if I wanted fries with that so I could say no thanks...

[Khobai]

Sedmeister, on 08 August 2018 - 12:56 AM, said:

No not just like when it was a module. When it was a module, I saved up and bought the module. I wasn't forced to buy mudflaps, windsheld wipers and a bunch of other useless stuff before I could get my hands on the radar dep mod, I just saved up and bought the thing I wanted.

So did everyone else. because it was the best module. And it was abused. everyone put it on every mech.

Again it needs to be deep in the tree or it will just get abused again without any tradeoff for taking it.

Thats exactly why it was split into multiple skills and placed deep in the tree: to make it COST something.

Now do I think the prerequisite skills to get radar derp should be better? absolutely. But radar derp should definitely be a multi-node skill that requires a big commitment in the sensor tree. Because its THAT good.

Edited by Khobai, 08 August 2018 - 01:01 AM.

[Sedmeister]

Athom83, on 07 August 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

No, but from what I've experienced in other games where you can select after match start (and in FW to an extent) and how I see people play currently, QP will essentially become a mass of cheese unlike ever before seen.

Check out the podcast, like I said in another response here in this thread, some nasty changes coming down the pipe that unskilled LRM dedicated players are gonna find challenging to the play style unless they learn to work well with direct fire...

Khobai, on 08 August 2018 - 12:58 AM, said:

So did everyone else. because it was the best module. And it was abused. everyone put it on every mech.

Again it needs to be deep in the tree or it will just get abused again without any tradeoff for taking it.

One man's "everyone taking the mod = abuse" is another mans "I'm gonna load my assault with LRM's, sit at the back, farm damage and loose the game for the team = abuse" I guess.

Abuse is in the eye of the beholder...

[Savage Wolf]

Sedmeister, on 08 August 2018 - 12:56 AM, said:

No not just like when it was a module. When it was a module, I saved up and bought the module. I wasn't forced to buy mudflaps, windsheld wipers and a bunch of other useless stuff before I could get my hands on the radar dep mod, I just saved up and bought the thing I wanted. That's my point. Happy to pay for radar dep, I just would prefer if PGI asked me if I wanted fries with that so I could say no thanks...

So... what is the difference.

Before, it cost an amount of c-bills and a module slot.

Now it costs a number of skill points. You also get a number of other things in the bag, but essentially it costs a number of skills points. Would you prefer not getting the extras in the bag, but for the same price, because you're not going to get it cheaper.

[Sedmeister]

Savage Wolf, on 08 August 2018 - 01:08 AM, said:

So... what is the difference.

Before, it cost an amount of c-bills and a module slot.

Now it costs a number of skill points. You also get a number of other things in the bag, but essentially it costs a number of skills points. Would you prefer not getting the extras in the bag, but for the same price, because you're not going to get it cheaper.

Like I said, I don't appreciate being forced to buy other things instead of just the stuff I want. Like it was in the days of modules. You wanna buy a hill climb module and waste a slot on it? Knock yourself out! Don't force me to buy one before I can get radar dep. It's a cynical move. Simple.

[Vellron2005]

Sedmeister, on 08 August 2018 - 12:56 AM, said:

Oh, you're a LURMER...

And proudly so! Hell yeah!

[The Mysterious Fox]

what, we've been clearing entire waves with lrms these few days during the event