39 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Monkey Lover, on 09 August 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

I live for the brawl !
1v1 in the middle of a 12 man fight killing that mech then turning around in second later fighting another nonstop until your the last one standing! Oh baby

Warhorns are best for such situations. Nothing demoralized the enemy more than hearing several of them blowing one after the another.

[xe N on]

You can still brawl but you have to use either ultra fast broken hitbox mechs like assassin, or clearly insanely overpowered mechs like Arctic wolf with 8 SRM6.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Not All Mechs Are Brawlers


..fixed that for you

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 10 August 2018 - 07:19 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

Kalimaster, on 09 August 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

Clan Mechs....Many can no longer compete with IS, much less fight their way out of a paper bag.

Damn, this is some "lrm atlas at the back of mining collective and I'm in a Piranha" level bait.

You hiding a streakboat back there? Because I'm ready to go

[Novakaine]

Monkey Lover, on 09 August 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

I live for the brawl !
1v1 in the middle of a 12 man fight killing that mech then turning around in second later fighting another nonstop until your the last one standing! Oh baby

ERL brawlers is that a thing now?

[Rafe Yomin]

JediPanther, on 09 August 2018 - 08:56 PM, said:

Bolt on Items. Imagine AA shoulder mounts that would take down an air strike or UAV-
-Already in game. You have to win them in solaris game mode doing 1 vs1 or 2 vs 2 alternately win a supply cash and it being super rare gives you a bolt on. They fall off if a slight breeze hits your mech or if you had chili and fart. They really need their own hp pool since they are just cosmetic only items with no function.

Breeze? recently i took a tag, and while looking at a friendly mech's bolt ons, i knocked all of them off with my tag. Just looking at them makes them fall off.

[Khobai]

Quote

Not All Mechs Are Brawlers

some are lrm boats

Edited by Khobai, 10 August 2018 - 02:59 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

Mystere, on 09 August 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

Say hello to the game many people apparently want:

GG reds, well played

[Quxudica]

Kalimaster, on 09 August 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

Not everyone enjoys playing Brawler Styled Mechs, and Not all Mechs are Brawlers.

Yet trying to control and Nerf weapons to make them all equal have all but eliminated specialty roles, and those Mechs intended for such roles pretty much suck.

Poptarts,,,,,gone
Snipers.....a shadow of their former selves
Tanks.....The Atlas has turned into a pushover
Fire Suppression....Nerfed into oblivion.
Hammer Time Mechs.....Nerfed into oblivion
Clan Mechs....Many can no longer compete with IS, much less fight their way out of a paper bag.
Scouts....Getting more and more useless.

If the new targeting Nerfs hit, especially to NARC, Mechs such as the Raven will be tossed onto the toadstool pile. The game has simply been over Nerfed. "Don't Sneeze you'll kill something on screen."

We need to buff, to make the game more fun. We especially need to hunt down the bugs in this game that still haunt us. The in-game rewards system still does not work, many players can't get into a FW match without getting booted from the game. Players have stopped complaining to deaf ears, or have even quite, moving onto other non mech based games.

There are a few ways to correct this. The brawler crowd, learn to take on a variety of playstyles instead of having it all in your back yard.
Buff weapons, stop the nerf.
Bolt on Items. Imagine AA shoulder mounts that would take down an air strike or UAV
One Shot Jump Jet Packs
Cockpit items that grant small benefits or C-Bill awards.

It can be done!

The original concept for MWO's Role Warfare held that dealing damage directly was only going to be a part of every mechs function on the battlefield and not every mech was going to even focus on it. I remember when the Raven was introduced, it was billed as the first "IFW"/"Support" mech with it's ECM and there would be many more such specialist mechs and specialist equipment packs coming. I remember people speculating on things like what the D-DC's Command Console was going to give it's pilots access too, what kinds of abilities it would award its pilots and those pilots Lances.

None of that came to pass. The Raven just became a red-box-less sniper mech (or an SRM boat for a time, if you had the hero), ECM became just a passive piece of tech you included perfunctorily on your mech and rarely ever needed to think about. I don't think the CC ever even got an effect, and the Computer may as well not exist. Likewise I doubt any TC above Mk II ever sees use as pretty much all the games non-weapon gear became filler you use to padd out the last couple tons on your mech. Worse yet some of the most potentially Role defining equipment in the UAV and Air/Artillery Strikes became magic cards that any mech can just pull out of it's back side, instead of being actual gear that builds need to actually incorporate. Strikes in particular are just sad, essentially being free damage buttons that require no thought or effort to use beyond point-and-click.

The inevitable result of course was that every mechs entire focus became damage. Damage was and is effectively the only thing a new chassis can bring to the table and weapon hard points are the primary gauge of a mechs value, just above the geometry of it's hit boxes. Because there's nothing else for a mech to do in MWO. Role Warfare was supposed to be a central game play pillar, or at least that's how it was pitched back in Alpha/Beta.. but modern MWO barely pays lip service to the concept.

The issues in MWO that drive this problem are systemic and there is no one single fix for it, but one of the big elements that would go a long way toward fixing it would be the introduction of gear. Equipment that take up slots and tonnage but also provide benefits and abilities that actually make them a competitive choice when compared with just taking yet-another-gun or ton of ammo. It would breath new life into chassis that were never designed for (or due to MWO's mechanics, aren't suited too) being main line damage dealers. There needs to be a push away from ever-bigger-damage numbers in the game and toward more methodical, thoughtful combat with more to think about than just "can I alpha strike again yet?".

[Asym]

Bulletsponge0, on 10 August 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

GG reds, well played

I've been saying this for years !

Well, PGI did just that and gave us Solaris.......... Which, seems to be a ghost town.

Now, there are a lot of conversations about "what we are as a gaming community?" What's left? Heck,who's left to play a shell of what was.... Here's a business test: can anyone state MWO's "value proposition?" If you can't, we are in serious trouble in that we are a small niche market with a "vision" of the future.....

Once you mess with "expectation's based on history" or the "culture of that history", bad things happen....... Like where MWO is right now: praying that MW5 is a success.................. And, looking at its concept media, they are seriously hoping that all of the single player MW game fans come back. Personally, I know several of my team that will survey the game and report what they see but, it won't be "everybody buys it now, let's go !" Heck, the people I know are all dropping everything else and are jumping into FO76 en masse this fall....

PGI needs to stir that kinda of excitement for us to come back. I haven't seen anything yet that is even believable....

OP, roles are gone.......the mechs are still here.......and, this is an arcade FPS that "lost its way" from day 1.......

[LowSubmarino]

Sniping has received massive nerfs over the years as its not a popular playstyle. Back in the days, before skilltree, when the hunchback IICA was agile, with shorter cooldown cerppcs....god....i miss those times. It wasnt that easy to contribute in a meaningful way cause of mwos nascar meta. But you could do very well. With massive cooldown nerfs and especially insane mobility nerfs many former sniper mechs which were good (huchback iica or shadowhawk 2k for instance) are dead.

Fast, hart hitting skirmishers that exploit the speedy and constant shifting nascar movements have prolly never been stronger in mwo. And the easiest way to farm dmg, kills and cbills.you dont have to be at the center of the brawl. Take a fast mech with at least 16 dhs built to trade well, relying on agility and speed and preferably good hardpoints and attack the weak rear and flanks of nascar. Prolly the most fun job anyway. And youre nowhere near as dependent on immediate backup as slow heavies or assaults.

Aim for at least 104 kph. Skilled for heat and cooldown, 2 cool shots and just farm mechs that fall behind in literally every match. And you can do a number of jobs as a skirmisher. Hunt assaults that are isolated, cover your big mechs vs lights, scout, deal good dmg (which is possible with 16 dhs and skilled for heat). Youre in a much better posotion to react to a number of developements. I like medium mechs that can either outrun or outgun any opposition. Dunno how often piranhas, cicadas, locusts or other faster mechs thought that uziel 6P is an easy target. Youll massacre those fast mechs and youll do evil dmg vs big mechs as well.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

LowSubmarino, on 11 August 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

With massive cooldown nerfs and especially insane mobility nerfs many former sniper mechs which were good (huchback iica or shadowhawk 2k for instance) are dead.

The same thing applies to brawling. Probably even more so.

Agility nerfs suck for everyone.

[LowSubmarino]

Tetatae Squawkins, on 11 August 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

The same thing applies to brawling. Probably even more so.

Agility nerfs suck for everyone.

You cant compare those too.

Brawlers are equipped for close quarter fights and are way better suited for nascar playstyle on the majority of maps in mwo.

Sniping means you will have to gain some distance.

But even as a faster mech (not talking about 11 or 12ish DHS puny double laser pokers that take a decade to strip an atlas of its unarmored shield arm) you will natrually fight from the outer perimeter or you expose yourself to ac 20s in hand to hand combat. That means you will have to run much wider cirlces.

You cant find one single good position and keep hammering cause often times you will suddenly have a sea of red between you and your team. Many snipers I see fall to that.

In many scenarios youll be forced to constantly run.

Real snipers, dmg dealing snipers with at least 16 dhs, are not as fast as lights. They are faster than heavier mechs (eg. hunchbackIICA with max engine and 95 kph) but they are nowhere fast enough to truely disengage from far behind the frontlne once their team has circled half the way.

Theyll be dead.

I can easily get 800 - 1000 games in my skirmishers.

Consisentenly. While on the phonne, tired and not really that focused. With 2 - 4 kills.

Try that in a sniper.

Not only that, you will receive a shitload of trashtalk that you are useless sniping like you do.

They have - willingly or as a side effect of other modifications - completly evolved mwo towards close to midrange nascar encounters.

Things are different, when its not potato teams but very good and experienced teams. Snipers can be very effective in those encounters and will win you the game. But those teams give snipers the chance to find good positions and start trading.

Pug teams dont do that.

Just 2 good snipers, dmg dealing snipers, that actually have the time to position themselves.....they are game changing.with 32 combined heatsinks, skilled for heat and cooldown, preferably with no face time weapons and massive range, they will rain down destruction on team red, if the aim is anywhere between solid to very good.

They further enhanced the already existing difficulties as a sniper by massively nerfing cooldown and especially! agility.

Try running a hunchbackIICA which was a formidable, nimble, agile and versatile mech.

No matter how much iron you pump into mobility, max it out even.....and it feels like a dead slug.

And I will eat snipers for lunch in my skirmisher builds. They are at a massive disadvantage in mwos current meta and especially taking the tiny, arcade style maps into consideration.

Edited by LowSubmarino, 11 August 2018 - 10:17 AM.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

I absolutely agree that maps/modes and player behavior lends itself to shorter range battles.

I do not agree that agility nerfs disproportionately impacted sniping given that brawling was basically eliminated as a playstyle from heavier mechs.


Sniping was killed through weapon nerfs. Because no fun is allowed in MWO.

Edited by Tetatae Squawkins, 11 August 2018 - 10:54 AM.

[Huurrrple]

everyone is running midrange now, brawling died long ago.

[Athom83]

Huurrrple, on 13 August 2018 - 01:38 AM, said:

everyone is running midrange now, brawling died long ago.

But but but, a brawler mech closed with my LRM boat and killed me pretty quickly as I had no backup weapons to protect myself if someone closes on me. That definitely means everyone is in a brawling mech and that they are OP!

[Grus]

Brawl still works, just on lesser ammounts of mechs. Clan mechs CAN fight thier way out of a paper bag but it requires good/better position and tactics (dont bite off more than you can chew) *see mpl ebonjag* you just dont want to stare. An IS mech will chew tou up if you dont twist off the damage.

[LordBraxton]

The only viable brawlers in the game are the ONIIIC and the MADIIC hero. Most mechs are mid range poke. Maybe a coupleof my MRM splat builds could be considered brawlers but they still do better poking at 200-300 meters than actually brawling.

[Battlemaster56]

The Atlas, Kodiak SB, and the Mad Cat MKII 2 are strong brawlers and can hold their own in a fight just don't expect them to push a fight to the enemy that much, and just biding their time.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 13 August 2018 - 11:57 AM.

[Brizna]

Brawling is OP? So why the hell I'm playing LAser vomit, gauss vomit and HGauss... silly me!!