24 replies to this topic

[Grus]

So IMO... this is going to be a huge nerf to any mech with lots of hardpoints. Ill take the DW for my example. 6mpl, 2hll, 2lpl, 2lmg. 109 "alpha." Now with these changes and current ghost heat in place i will never be able to fire off the mpl and hll first and then half a second later the lpls. Now ill have to fire each group individually and that means MORE FACE TIME.... now anyone that has piloted a DW will tell you its CT loves to vanish quickly. Its armor in general is a joke, now the added mobility is nice dont get me wrong. But if i still have to have my *** in the brezz for 5 seconds thats 3 seconds too long..

[Grus]

Another good example is the Heavy large laser hellfire... you know.. the mech BUILT to house a bunch of them? Yeah.. not going to be able to do it any more..

Edited by Grus, 20 August 2018 - 05:47 AM.

[SFC174]

This is an issue that a lot of people are glossing over or are even happy about.

I understand the need to bring down big alphas a bit, and this PTS does that, but high energy hardpoint count mechs are getting gimped regardless of buildout (or weight). Non meta builds, particularly those using pulse lasers suffer the most (longer cooldown lasers take better advantage of the PTS higher heat dissipation, while short cooldown pulse variants can't take advantage of their higher fire rate for long).

And considering this does little to bring down the boogeyman gauss-vomit builds, I just don't think this PTS is doing a good job.

[Mycroft000]

This is a good thing, it makes it feel more like BattleTech, you're not expected to be able to fire every single weapon every single turn without suffering the heat effects from doing so.

[Commander James Raynor]

I also think this is a good thing. Any mechs with a lot of hardpoints that are balanced now could be buffed in some other aspect to compensate for not being able to use all their hardpoints as before. Besides, having a lot of hardpoints could still be used to rapid fire smaller weapons. As it is now, mechs with too few hardpoints, like the Dragon are just bad, and have to be balanced with insane durability. All of this can be adressed with addition or removal of quirks, but the core of the game would be irreversibly changed in a good way if these changes are implemented.

[SFC174]

Mycroft000, on 20 August 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

This is a good thing, it makes it feel more like BattleTech, you're not expected to be able to fire every single weapon every single turn without suffering the heat effects from doing so.

It's not BattleTech :facepalm:

It's a first person shooter, and if you start making changes that obsolete a bunch of mechs, people are gonna bolt. If you want a more authentic BattleTech experience there is a turn based game by that name waiting for you with open arms.

The whole idea that PGI pitched in nerfing clan lasvomit was that it would allow them to reduce a bunch of quirks, particularly on the IS side. If this whole absurdly low energy cap idea goes through and it requires more quirks, its an utter failure.

[Eisenhorne]

Grus, your describing what PGI is trying to prevent you from doing... so in that regard, it works as intended. They're trying to force you to use more weapon groups instead of alpha striking on some clanner mechs. So, you'll have to use the Dire as a ballistic boat, or maybe some combinations that haven't been done yet, like Gauss + LRM's maybe.

[Mycroft000]

SFC174, if any of us in this game truly wanted nothing more than a normal FPS, we'd all be playing any number of other games. What draws people to MWO is the fact that it's not a plain FPS, and what makes it not a plain FPS is the aspects that come from BattleTech.

[Grus]

Eisenhorne, on 20 August 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

Grus, your describing what PGI is trying to prevent you from doing... so in that regard, it works as intended. They're trying to force you to use more weapon groups instead of alpha striking on some clanner mechs. So, you'll have to use the Dire as a ballistic boat, or maybe some combinations that haven't been done yet, like Gauss + LRM's maybe.

don't know if you ever took out that build but you would know how easy it is to just wreck it and how quickly it can be made combat ineffective..

Mycroft000, on 20 August 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

This is a good thing, it makes it feel more like BattleTech, you're not expected to be able to fire every single weapon every single turn without suffering the heat effects from doing so.

true but again this is increasing face time in a clan mech.. that's a death sentence.. and if you do what they want in we just have to have "more fire groups" then that completely negates the point of the mech. again i understand that the whole point is to get rid of the big alpha. but big alpha come with big heat and long cool downs.. its damage outgoing inst the problem its peoples tactics to fight against it. get int its face, bring a flamer or two, and watch those laser vomit baba yaga clan mechs run home to momy.

Edited by Grus, 20 August 2018 - 04:39 PM.

[SFC174]

Mycroft000, on 20 August 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

SFC174, if any of us in this game truly wanted nothing more than a normal FPS, we'd all be playing any number of other games. What draws people to MWO is the fact that it's not a plain FPS, and what makes it not a plain FPS is the aspects that come from BattleTech.

And they're already playing it because it's got battlemechs and weapons from BattleTech. The aspects that are not like BattleTech (rapid firing, pinpoint aim, heat, etc.) are there because it's a FPS. It's already slower moving (twitch skills not as important) than any of the big FPS's. Change those too much and you lose people.

[Eisenhorne]

Grus, on 20 August 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

don't know if you ever took out that build but you would know how easy it is to just wreck it and how quickly it can be made combat ineffective..

oh I know it's not a great build, I never thought there needed to be an adjustment to reduce the massive alphas clanners can do because the builds that do them are generally not viable anyway. However, if PGI is unable to be swayed about this, then this looks like a decent way to go about it because it actually buffs brawlers and other playstyles beyond laservomit, so we might see more variation in mechs being brought out now.

[Cy Mitchell]

SFC174, on 21 August 2018 - 05:29 AM, said:

And they're already playing it because it's got battlemechs and weapons from BattleTech. The aspects that are not like BattleTech (rapid firing, pinpoint aim, heat, etc.) are there because it's a FPS. It's already slower moving (twitch skills not as important) than any of the big FPS's. Change those too much and you lose people.

Maybe but maybe changes like this will also bring back some of the MechWarrior fans who have left because the game has become only another (albeit slower) FPS. I have seen people asking for lower heat cap, progressive heat penalties and heatsinks that dissipate heat but do not raise the heat cap for years. Many of them have given up and left. If this actually happens then perhaps they will come back.

[SFC174]

Rampage, on 22 August 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

Maybe but maybe changes like this will also bring back some of the MechWarrior fans who have left because the game has become only another (albeit slower) FPS. I have seen people asking for lower heat cap, progressive heat penalties and heatsinks that dissipate heat but do not raise the heat cap for years. Many of them have given up and left. If this actually happens then perhaps they will come back.

Yeah, and some of us will leave (I'm on record that, without massive, massive changes, implementing this change in heat mechanics means I'm gone). Bird in the hand worth 2 in the bush?

[MechaBattler]

You know what? Good. Hard point power creep shouldn't be encouraged.

[SFC174]

MechaBattler, on 22 August 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

You know what? Good. Hard point power creep shouldn't be encouraged.

That ship sailed a long time ago. All you do by gimping mechs with lots of hardpoints is piss off all the players who bought them. But hey, the game can easily lose a bunch more players, we have plenty to spare…..

[Arkansas6A]

For what it's worth, of the five people I know who used to play this game, three of them stopped because of the lack of Battletechiness (it's a word, I promise). I didn't understand what they meant, until the day I learned that the "only way to play" is with boating one particular weapon system, be it laser vomit, or SRM's, or whatever.

So, who is to say that for everyone who doesn't like it, another will? Maybe more? Better retention? If MWO is in such dire straights as many people love to say, then surely something must be done for the sake of better retention, and to gain some more new blood.

Or, you know...maybe the next clan light mech will be able to field 48 machine guns! Cool!

[Tesunie]

SFC174, on 21 August 2018 - 05:29 AM, said:

And they're already playing it because it's got battlemechs and weapons from BattleTech. The aspects that are not like BattleTech (rapid firing, pinpoint aim, heat, etc.) are there because it's a FPS. It's already slower moving (twitch skills not as important) than any of the big FPS's. Change those too much and you lose people.

Actually, the pin point aim was "added" in (or rather delayed weapons convergence removed) NOT to make it more like a PFS, but was instead removed for a system of lag compensation called HSR (Host State Rewind). It was never intended to be removed, but HSR did not play well with it, and personally I'd love to have delayed convergence back into the game. However, I also like not having to lead a mysterious distance in front of my target with my lasers and hope it hits after lag was taken in.

Do you know how much of a pain it was to hit laging lights? The "Lag Shield" ™ was strong before HSR... Too strong.

[Ragedog4]

A lot of weapons does not mean you get the ability to fire all of the med lasers you want. It means you have options. So with the dire you could take three LB10x, 8 Micro Pulse, and 4 ER meds with full armor, ammo, and some heat sinks. You can fire all your Weapons for 42.75 heat. So guess what, you CAN use all of the hard point. You just want YOUR build, but we cannot have everyone just have what they want. A friend of mine just wants to have 10 PPCs. Sorry but thats just not going to happen. We want Balance of the game, not to please one or a few people with their favorite mechs.

Sorry, but to help bring people back we need to balance all mechs and that takes a nerf to Alpha boats who are just too powerful right now. If the Dire is too weak then give a individual change, like Armor buff.

[xe N on]

Grus, on 20 August 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

true but again this is increasing face time in a clan mech.. that's a death sentence.. a

Maybe it's a death sentence because people running 6mpl, 2hll, 2lpl, 2lmg. 109 "alpha"

Edited by xe N on, 25 August 2018 - 06:34 AM.

[Grus]

xe N on, on 25 August 2018 - 06:33 AM, said:

Maybe it's a death sentence because people running 6mpl, 2hll, 2lpl, 2lmg. 109 "alpha"

Huh? 2 fire groups needed for that build... i really dont get what you're gling for here.