453 replies to this topic

[Nuclear Harvest]

I can't belive SSRMs needed any nerfs. They actually could use an indirect buff in form of dumbfire mode.
I hope it won't be six years before the fix.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Yay! My first post!

[Bishop Six]

Hiten Bongz, on 21 August 2018 - 01:13 AM, said:

Lol? Yeah, you sure aren't biased.

Good patch? Good adjustments? Basically ruining three weapon systems (Streaks, ATMs, LRMs) in order to nerf the only one which really needed it (and not THIS way), simply because they all use lockon, you consider that a good thing? Yeah...no bias at all.



Seriously, WTF? Might as well make all missiles direct fire and just remove tracking altogether at this point.

And that is much more than a 50% reduction of lock-on area. Yet another slap in the face.

Ok from a philosophical point of view:

How can anyone not being bias? Thats impossible. Lurm Users are bias as well or not?

Edited by Bishop Six, 21 August 2018 - 01:43 AM.

[MiZia]

Bishop Six, on 21 August 2018 - 01:43 AM, said:

Ok from a philosophical point of view:

How can anyone not being bias? Thats impossible. Lurm Users are bias as well or not?

Welp, despite having only 2 lurm Mechs out of 85 i did countless 1500+ and even many 2000+ dmg rounds in Fp with only that Mech. Its just fun 2-3 matches every day but endless boring after that And it requires so mucho skill on top

Edited by MiZia, 21 August 2018 - 01:58 AM.

[Bishop Six]

MiZia, on 21 August 2018 - 01:56 AM, said:

Welp, despite having only 2 lurm Mechs out of 85 i did countless 1500+ and even many 2000+ dmg rounds in Fp with only that Mech. Its just fun 2-3 matches every day but endless boring after that And it requires so mucho skill on top

Most boring matches are for example:

Caustic Valley in FP. Both teams going full ****** with many Lurms boats. All are standing behind the ridges and waiting for locks. Both teams have about 2 or 3 direct fire mechs (including me). If you look over the ridge alone, you get about 1000 missiles on your head instantly. So you dont look over the ridge.

The lurm boats are looking to you, waiting for locks. You are looking back and sighs. Hilarious.

Edited by Bishop Six, 21 August 2018 - 02:07 AM.

[Hiten Bongz]

denAirwalkerrr, on 21 August 2018 - 01:37 AM, said:

Moving your reticle inside red square around mech is too hard apparently?

Well it wouldn't be much of an issue if your missile lock wasn't immediately broken when you move your reticle outside of the acquisition area. But since it is, you now have an excruciating face time for every launch if you want to actually get your own locks and twist damage away like a non-potato. Or want to peek and fire. Artemis at least helped acquire a lock quicker, but now the time to reacquire every target is just going to be ridiculous. Especially vs. an ECM user, which incidentally also gets a range buff...

This change effectively just encourages even more cowardly potato LRM playing, while harming Streaks, ATMs, and "active" LRMers more than anything. Passive potato LRMers will just drop Artemis for more ammo or heatsinks, and will CONTINUE to sit behind cover and teammates...why wouldn't they? It's harder to acquire any kind of lock now, so there's even less incentive to move their *** out of cover.

I'm NOT saying LRMs didn't need to be dialed back or injected with a bit more skill to play, but effectively nerfing other missile systems along with it is BS and not the right way to go about it.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 21 August 2018 - 02:44 AM.

[D79]

I welcome the patch and look forward to testing how it affects the game. The marginal tweaks to chassis is better than sweeping changes previously. I am slightly surprised that the two main overperforming areas (IMO) weren’t addressed: dual heavy Gauss on IS assaults and Clan lights boating MGs. As a predominately IS medium pilot, 50 heatless pinpoint damage is lethal. The mechanics for MGs are good but not when coupled with recent hardpoint inflation. I’m not advocating a nerf but a minor adjustment to make all play styles viable.

[Ninjah]

Target Decay Nodes OP, if you have them maxxed all you need to do is to pop out your head for 0.5 sec and enjoy the next few seconds of hard lock which is more than enough to unload a full LRM80 barrage from 300-400 meters (velocity nodes help a lot too). Rinse and repeat. I have UAVs too. I have a TAG. I feel like a freaking GOD in MWO when I take my SNV-A or AWS-8R out. Or my LRM 60 Hunchie with full Jump Jets. I did 1894 dmg with a LRM boat in QuickPlay. Want a screenshot? No problem. I KNOW what LRMs are. I know what NARC is. I have maxxed out Raven 3L and ACH-Prime for Narcing. People are congratulating me on my Narc skillz over VOIP. Get it? You're not on my level yet, son. This nerf was needed, ende.

Ps. You probably won't even notice it...

[MiZia]

Hiten Bongz, on 21 August 2018 - 02:22 AM, said:

Well it wouldn't be much of an issue if your missile lock wasn't immediately broken when you move your reticle outside of the acquisition area. But since it is, you now have an excruciating face time for every launch if you want to actually get your own locks and twist damage away like a non-potato. Or want to peek and fire. Artemis at least helped acquire a lock quicker, but now the time to reacquire every target is just going to be ridiculous. Especially vs. an ECM user, which incidentally also gets a range buff...

This change effectively just encourages even more cowardly potato LRM playing, while harming Streaks, ATMs, and "active" LRMers more than anything. Passive potato LRMers will just drop Artemis for more ammo or heatsinks, and will continue to sit behind cover and teammates...why wouldn't they? It's harder to acquire any kind of lock now, so there's even less incentive to move their *** out of cover.

I'm NOT saying LRMs didn't need to be dialed back or injected with a bit more skill to play, but effectively nerfing other missile systems along with it is BS and not the right way to go about it.

Tbh if u want to bring Lurmers in front u got to make sight lock instant while making non sight locks take ages, only mitigated by Narc or Tag. Like 10 seconds on non sight mechs, 50% less if Narced/Tagged.

Edited by MiZia, 21 August 2018 - 02:40 AM.

[Kirito Kerenksy]

Hiten Bongz, on 21 August 2018 - 02:22 AM, said:

Well it wouldn't be much of an issue if your missile lock wasn't immediately broken when you move your reticle outside of the acquisition area. But since it is, you now have an excruciating face time for every launch if you want to actually get your own locks and twist damage away like a non-potato. Or want to peek and fire. Artemis at least helped acquire a lock quicker, but now the time to reacquire every target is just going to be ridiculous. Especially vs. an ECM user, which incidentally also gets a range buff...

This change effectively just encourages even more cowardly potato LRM playing, while harming Streaks, ATMs, and "active" LRMers more than anything. Passive potato LRMers will just drop Artemis for more ammo or heatsinks, and will continue to sit behind cover and teammates...why wouldn't they? It's harder to acquire any kind of lock now, so there's even less incentive to move their *** out of cover.

I'm NOT saying LRMs didn't need to be dialed back or injected with a bit more skill to play, but effectively nerfing other missile systems with it is BS and not the right way to go about it.

Why would you use a weapon with the benefit of not needing to expose with no difference in the way it plays with or without direct LoS? If you really are risking your mech that much why not switch to lasers since they would have about the same face-time and you'd need to track your target just more accurately to pop off components instead of spreading damage?

[Chados]

Hiten Bongz, on 21 August 2018 - 02:22 AM, said:

Well it wouldn't be much of an issue if your missile lock wasn't immediately broken when you move your reticle outside of the acquisition area. But since it is, you now have an excruciating face time for every launch if you want to actually get your own locks and twist damage away like a non-potato. Or want to peek and fire. Artemis at least helped acquire a lock quicker, but now the time to reacquire every target is just going to be ridiculous. Especially vs. an ECM user, which incidentally also gets a range buff...

This change effectively just encourages even more cowardly potato LRM playing, while harming Streaks, ATMs, and "active" LRMers more than anything. Passive potato LRMers will just drop Artemis for more ammo or heatsinks, and will continue to sit behind cover and teammates (and why wouldn't they? It's harder to acquire any kind of lock now, so even less incentive to move your *** out of cover).

Precisely.

From what I’m seeing, most of the people supporting this broad nerf are faction players hating premades building strategies around LRMs. And it may be...in fact, it makes sense...that changes like this show that balance decisions are made by considering only premade groups in faction warfare. Which means that if true, then solo and small groups in the QP queues...in other words, the majority of the population...are getting back seated in favor of balancing toward a mode with little population. That sounds pretty stupid as a balancing decision, but fits in with the push back toward FP.

The problems with FP aren’t going to be fixed by nerfing LRMs, ATMs, and Streaks. The problems with FP revolve around the uniquely horrible chokepoint design of siege-mode maps and the yawning gulf in skill between major FP units and all other players. The changes in the FP thread show that PGI’s fix for the low FP population is to throw freelancers and solos into the lions’ den to provide cannon fodder for 12-man high end FP groups like the EVILs, KComs, etc. of the world. Nerfing missiles and buffing ECM isn’t going to feed more targets into the FP queue if MC bait in big events like the current one isn’t going to do it. And coordinated teams building LRM decks aren’t going to be slowed down by this change, as they rarely used Artemis anyway. All they will do is exchange NARC for TAG on their spotters, load up a couple active probes (Clan ones include half ton light APs), and go on hiding behind rocks and raining. This change hurts solo queue and group queue LRM carriers who used Artemis and the larger lock cone to enhance working at short range against moving targets and Streak carriers hunting light machine-gun carriers. It’ll shift solo play more in favor of mechs like the Piranha and prompt greater moves to autocannons and lasers.

[MiZia]

Navid A1, on 21 August 2018 - 02:34 AM, said:

I'm gonna repeat this question until it gets answered. (this is the fifth time now)


Chris, Paul, PGI, anyone...

Did artemis bonuses require line of sight?
Did artemis override NARC bonuses?

The official statement was that Artemis bonuses required line of sight and stacked with narc. And now in this patch note it is considered as a free upgrade all the time and is used as a justification to remove a feature.

So again... Did artemis bonuses require line of sight?
Did artemis override NARC bonuses?


Unfortunately, when you ask something as simple as that and there is no response, then it often means something is being swept under the rug.

Well i thought same, Artemis works only with sight....apparently its not

[Movano]

So the TL;DR of this thread is: People are mad because they have to aim a little more and a weapon system that was said to work one way and didn't is being corrected after 6 years.

or an even shorter TL;DR:

[denAirwalkerrr]

Chados, on 21 August 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

Precisely.

From what I’m seeing, most of the people supporting this broad nerf are faction players hating premades building strategies around LRMs. And it may be...in fact, it makes sense...that changes like this show that balance decisions are made by considering only premade groups in faction warfare. Which means that if true, then solo and small groups in the QP queues...in other words, the majority of the population...are getting back seated in favor of balancing toward a mode with little population. That sounds pretty stupid as a balancing decision, but fits in with the push back toward FP.

The problems with FP aren’t going to be fixed by nerfing LRMs, ATMs, and Streaks. The problems with FP revolve around the uniquely horrible chokepoint design of siege-mode maps and the yawning gulf in skill between major FP units and all other players. The changes in the FP thread show that PGI’s fix for the low FP population is to throw freelancers and solos into the lions’ den to provide cannon fodder for 12-man high end FP groups like the EVILs, KComs, etc. of the world. Nerfing missiles and buffing ECM isn’t going to feed more targets into the FP queue if MC bait in big events like the current one isn’t going to do it. And coordinated teams building LRM decks aren’t going to be slowed down by this change, as they rarely used Artemis anyway. All they will do is exchange NARC for TAG on their spotters, load up a couple active probes (Clan ones include half ton light APs), and go on hiding behind rocks and raining. This change hurts solo queue and group queue LRM carriers who used Artemis and the larger lock cone to enhance working at short range against moving targets and Streak carriers hunting light machine-gun carriers. It’ll shift solo play more in favor of mechs like the Piranha and prompt greater moves to autocannons and lasers.

No I just genuinely despise current implementation of LRMs in MWO and people saying they are fun to play.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 21 August 2018 - 02:47 AM.

[Chados]

denAirwalkerrr, on 21 August 2018 - 02:45 AM, said:

No I just genuinely despise current implementation of LRMs in MWO and people saying the are fun to play.

Well, you got your wish, so there’s that.

[Bishop Six]

Chados, on 21 August 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

Precisely.

From what I’m seeing, most of the people supporting this broad nerf are faction players hating premades building strategies around LRMs. And it may be...in fact, it makes sense...that changes like this show that balance decisions are made by considering only premade groups in faction warfare. Which means that if true, then solo and small groups in the QP queues...in other words, the majority of the population...are getting back seated in favor of balancing toward a mode with little population. That sounds pretty stupid as a balancing decision, but fits in with the push back toward FP.

The problems with FP aren’t going to be fixed by nerfing LRMs, ATMs, and Streaks. The problems with FP revolve around the uniquely horrible chokepoint design of siege-mode maps and the yawning gulf in skill between major FP units and all other players. The changes in the FP thread show that PGI’s fix for the low FP population is to throw freelancers and solos into the lions’ den to provide cannon fodder for 12-man high end FP groups like the EVILs, KComs, etc. of the world. Nerfing missiles and buffing ECM isn’t going to feed more targets into the FP queue if MC bait in big events like the current one isn’t going to do it. And coordinated teams building LRM decks aren’t going to be slowed down by this change, as they rarely used Artemis anyway. All they will do is exchange NARC for TAG on their spotters, load up a couple active probes (Clan ones include half ton light APs), and go on hiding behind rocks and raining. This change hurts solo queue and group queue LRM carriers who used Artemis and the larger lock cone to enhance working at short range against moving targets and Streak carriers hunting light machine-gun carriers. It’ll shift solo play more in favor of mechs like the Piranha and prompt greater moves to autocannons and lasers.

Dude Come on.

"Broad Nerf" - Are you kidding me?

"12-man-EVIL-premade" - Where can i see this ancient form? This show me you are totally out of date regarding FP.

And your other points: We are working and communicating with PGI to improve FP.
https://mwomercs.com...82#entry6151882

"This change hurts solo queue and group queue LRM carriers" - Handkerchief?

Hiten Bongz statement about being bias...is literally fitting on every post, also on your's.

[Ninjah]

About maps & chokepoints: FP siege maps almost never have issues with LRMs. Only several LRM builds will work, almost all having jump jets for raining from the sky. Boreal is a LRM friendly map but way too defender friendly and it needs serious work anyway. Maps that have LRM issues are the QP maps that got shoved into FP with little consideration. In FP you get to set your deck according to the map and that's where the trouble begins... I personally believe that all this preparation for the map, build strategies and planning add a great bit of depth to MWO compared by the random, flat and boring QP soup off all s**t that could possibly come together at some point, totally disoriented and lost. So it's a right decision to build the balance around Faction Play. Hope PGI stays on this course.

[Hiten Bongz]

Story Time, on 21 August 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

Why would you use a weapon with the benefit of not needing to expose with no difference in the way it plays with or without direct LoS? If you really are risking your mech that much why not switch to lasers since they would have about the same face-time and you'd need to track your target just more accurately to pop off components instead of spreading damage?

I'm not really sure what you're asking here? Anyways, ATMs and Streaks can't be fired indirectly and those are the affected missile systems being nerfed that I am complaining about and not so much LRMs (although like I said, this was NOT the way to properly nerf LRMs, either).

[mad kat]

And another thing for those players out there that have to rely a lot on LRM's and less so streaks because of a poor computer or FPS issues or laptop players are probably going to find the game much harder to play.

Not everyone out there can or will just update their machine for a supposed free to play game. I bet this patch will just drive even more players away.

It's almost as if you want the the game to die........

....but then the lack of matchmaker and still ****** hit reg will do that anyway.

Edited by mad kat, 21 August 2018 - 03:03 AM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Hiten Bongz, on 21 August 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

I'm not really sure what you're asking here? Anyways, ATMs and Streaks can't be fired indirectly and those are the affected missile systems being nerfed that I am complaining about and not so much LRMs (although like I said, this was NOT the way to properly nerf LRMs, either).

Try firing ATMs without lock. You’ll be shocked.

[MiZia]

Ninjah, on 21 August 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

About maps & chokepoints: FP siege maps almost never have issues with LRMs. Only several LRM builds will work, almost all having jump jets for raining from the sky. Boreal is a LRM friendly map but way too defender friendly and it needs serious work anyway. Maps that have LRM issues are the QP maps that got shoved into FP with little consideration. In FP you get to set your deck according to the map and that's where the trouble begins... I personally believe that all this preparation for the map, build strategies and planning add a great bit of depth to MWO compared by the random, flat and boring QP soup off all s**t that could possibly come together at some point, totally disoriented and lost. So it's a right decision to build the balance around Faction Play. Hope PGI stays on this course.

Well as Bishop stated, that Guy is out of (FP)Business, thaty why he wrote such nonsense.