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Patch Notes - 1.4.179.0 - 21-Aug-2018


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#21 Vellron2005

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:18 PM

View PostEisenhorne, on 20 August 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:


People who are unironically calling themselves "lurmers" should probably diversify their skillset. The only skill required in LRM play is by the person using the NARC light. LRMs have a narrow band where they are useful, just like ER Laser snipers or SRM brawlers. They shouldn't be useful in all situations, and they were too strong in too many situations. This might not even be enough of a nerf, we'll see.


If you're not a lurmer, (as in LRM heavy user), please don't contribute your well known opinions to this topic, they are meaningless.

#22 Eisenhorne

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:20 PM

View PostVellron2005, on 20 August 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:


If you're not a lurmer, (as in LRM heavy user), please don't contribute your well known opinions to this topic, they are meaningless.


Bruh, I hit 4.3k damage yesterday in a faction play match with 2 lurm boats. 20 KMDD's. 6 solo kills. Zero skill required. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about with LRMs.

*edit - And my second lurm boat still had ammo left when the game ended.

** second edit - People who know how to play multiple styles are really the only people who should contribute to balance discussions, not people who only do a single thing and don't see the whole picture.

Edited by Eisenhorne, 20 August 2018 - 12:23 PM.


#23 Venatos

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:24 PM

gotta be honest, after that realy sweet pts2.0 these patchnotes are not the ones im looking forward to. its nice and all, but i just cant wait for the heat rework!

#24 Jackal Noble

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:26 PM

Artemis fix is welcome.
Atm velo increase is also welcome, but will see if hp wouldnt be better.
Overall more good changes along with the PTS 2.0 stuff.

#25 BrunoSSace

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:26 PM

Was hoping for patch notes that would make me want to play more or if any. Sadly these are not them.

#26 PobbestGob

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:29 PM

View PostFrontlineAssembly, on 20 August 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

These changes to coolshots and Artemis have made them both pretty useless. So much for your goal of not creating deadweight in the mechlab! And how is removing 2/3 of Artemis functionality and upgrade? Did you study newspeak from 1984 or something. Less is more, and the chocolate ration was increased to 20g from the previous 30g..etc etc. I don't use Artemis much at all as it is. But definitely won't now!


I agree the artemis changes make it mostly not worth the investment. The coolshot change is welcome tho. They dissipate the same amount of heat, nothing changed there. Just can't use it to avoid an overheat with a near-instant effect, which is the point and I think a valid one.

#27 Commander James Raynor

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:33 PM

I know that may not have been the focus of this patch, but I would've liked to see the Heavy Gauss and machineguns adressed. As they stand now, they are both too powerful.

In the case of the macineguns, the problem seems to arise more from the clan mechs with 6+ ballistic hardpoints. All other weapons have a limit to how many you can shoot, and this is especially important for no-heat weapons (gauss and MG). If removing hardpoints is impossible, then mayble tunning them down?

As for the heavy gauss, well, it's just too much pin point fron loaded damage. I find it weird that the last time it was touched was to buff it.

View PostVellron2005, on 20 August 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:


If you're not a lurmer, (as in LRM heavy user), please don't contribute your well known opinions to this topic, they are meaningless.


Lol... so we have to agree with you or shut up? The guy is right, and even if he wasn't, he can say whatever he wants in the forum.

#28 Thorqemada

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:34 PM

Thx for killing Artemis - you not only have no clue how Missile Play should be fixed you also have no clue how Artemis works (it works with LOS only and only with the Mech that equips it and ECM counters it effects) - that it has unwanted side effects is not the fault of the Artemis System but your coding.

Thx für fixing it!

PS: Artemis is also the upgrade for Mechs with so little Energy Hardpoints in Numbers that TAG which requires 1 Energy Hardpoint would result in a degraded Firepower.

Edited by Thorqemada, 20 August 2018 - 12:38 PM.


#29 SmokeGuar

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:37 PM

Post topic correct patch number, text incorrect.

This is now second major nerf to locking mechanism. Have you tested this with higher ping vs higher ping players or only on company servers with low pings?

#30 admiralbenbow123

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:41 PM

View PostInnerSphereNews, on 20 August 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

</font></li> <li><font face="Stratum1 Regular" size="4">Fixed an issue where the Weapons list in the Warehouse stopped showing all equitable weapons after entering/exiting the Testing Grounds in Column View layout.

"equitable weapons"? That must be a typo

#31 Kin3ticX

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:41 PM

I like the change to the LRM lockon. It was always way too generous, to the point someone made a joke video of themselves holding locks with their foot on a mouse and doing ~1000 damage.

The way I imagine it will end up, a light mech may have a slight chance of juking out of a lock against an unsteady hand, but im also expecting LRM locks to be super easy still.

I am also going to soak up all this LRMs are now DOA rage like mana from heaven. Stuff like that is pretty much funner than playing the game.

A couple Clan laser haircut nerfs and this patch would have been a 8/10 or a 9/10.

Also, in b4 the 4x Spider-5V cap rush rage threads.

#32 Gannycus

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:43 PM

Nerf on streaks lock on is massive, at least give us the opportunity of dumb fire like all the other missiles system!

#33 Navid A1

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:56 PM

https://mwomercs.com...18#entry1936618


Posted Image

#34 Kroete

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:59 PM

View PostEisenhorne, on 20 August 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:


Bruh, I hit 4.3k damage yesterday in a faction play match with 2 lurm boats. 20 KMDD's. 6 solo kills. Zero skill required. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about with LRMs.

*edit - And my second lurm boat still had ammo left when the game ended.

** second edit - People who know how to play multiple styles are really the only people who should contribute to balance discussions, not people who only do a single thing and don't see the whole picture.

And the patch dont change anything.

Still narcs with around a minute of duration,
more stay back with the arcnerf to clear obstacles and even less bending,
more ammo and tubes because artemis are not worth it anymore,
not much lrms at front because locktimereductionerf of artemis.
You see, its catering for "that" use of lrms you showed, but it nerfs lower range and direct usement futher.

Sad that pgi made lrms playable only in a style that people hate about lrms (indirect massspamming)
and removed all other options patch by patch.

Edited by Kroete, 20 August 2018 - 01:06 PM.


#35 Rhialto

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:59 PM

Still missing in this patch...

Posted Image

It's been over a year I reported this...

#36 Hiten Bongz

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:00 PM

What the actual ****? ATMs are SUPPOSED to have Artemis built in already, you shouldn't even need to buy the upgrade. We need clarification as to if this actually nerfed the spread on ATMs, because if it did, that's...well, bs.

Thanks for the double nerfs due to the LRM spam you encouraged though, it's not as if ATMs didn't have a 2/3 unusable range bracket or anything already.

#37 Brain Cancer

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:14 PM

View PostInnerSphereNews, on 20 August 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

LRMs

The past few months have brought with them a number of changes to the LRM system. As we have stated in a recent podcast as well as the follow up forum thread, these changes have been implemented to make LRMs more effective at the core role we wish to see them occupy within the game. While this did improve the base weapon as we wished to see, we also observed is that in its elevated baseline state, a number of force multipliers surrounding the LRM system compounded on one another to make the weapon system a bit too oppressive in certain situations. In addition to a general ease of use that we felt needed tuning to be a bit more difficult to acquire and maintain targets. For this month, we will be hitting a number of force multipliers as well as provide a boost to ECM to help with coordinated counter-play against them. While we are focused on these force multipliers for this month, we still are closely observing LRM play and will consider further changes if we feel that it still does not put the weapon in a satisfactory state.



Weapon Lock changes
  • Weapon lock assistance angle tightened by ~50%
Design notes: With the recently boosted LRM stats, we want to take a second look at the weapon lock assistance angle and tighten the system up. This is not only to make it more challenging to lock on with LRM's but with all lock on type weapons including ATMs and Streak Missiles, which we feel had previously been set a bit too generously to the detriment of lighter, faster 'Mechs for all systems linked to the weapon lock on system.





Artemis Upgrade
  • Lock Time Boost and Tracking Strength Boost removed (from 50% Lock Time Boost 50% Tracking Strength Boost)
Design notes: Unlike TAG or NARC that require either team work or direct line of sight to provide lock-on and Missile Tracking boosts, Artemis was often a raw-upgrade that applied to the other more risky boosts in a cumulative way that saw a massive performance gap between loadouts that centered on baseline LRM launchers and loadouts that took LRMs equipped with Artemis. While we want Artemis to remain a worthwhile upgrade whose primary benefit is to boost Missile volley accuracy through tighter clustering, we do not want the upgrade to become a barrier to entry for effective LRMs use. And the previous benefits simply resulted in too great a performance gap between baseline LRM launchers, and those that took Artemis. Especially when the benefits of Artemis compounded on the benefits of TAG and NARC that require much more risk and exposure to fully benefit from.





Additionally, the Artemis upgrade was also applying these benefits to ATM's and Streak Systems without any further cost investment to the base launchers. This change will close the Artemis loophole on those systems, making their overall performance no longer dependent on any kind of hidden mechanic / upgrade. ATM and Streak launchers will now behave identically to one another whether a 'Mech has an upgraded Artemis system or not.



*golfclap*

I just came back to say that you managed to go from making lock-on systems marginally useful to throwing them right back into the trash. Also, most people won't have an idea what the heck you mean by "Weapon lock assistance angle tightened by ~50%", just saying.


In fact, you actually managed to make them worse than the whole pre-velocity increase thing, namely by taking every lockon missile system save unArtemised LRM spam (which gives not a care about most of this) and rendering them inherently slower across the board to fire, meaning facetime becomes even more ridiculous and the odds of a light simply orbiting it's way out of locks increases drastically.

Yay, my missiles go faster. My opponents now get all the time in the world to cut loose before I can do anything but dumbfire.

Did you, y'know, TEST THIS ON PTS?

View PostKin3ticX, on 20 August 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

I like the change to the LRM lockon. It was always way too generous, to the point someone made a joke video of themselves holding locks with their foot on a mouse and doing ~1000 damage.


He also couldn't hold a lock while moving at the same time, something we generally point to and invoke terms related to tubers. We already mock people who can't move and shoot at the same time, why are we pushing any weapon system closer to that?

View PostJackal Noble, on 20 August 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

Artemis fix is welcome.
Atm velo increase is also welcome, but will see if hp wouldnt be better.
Overall more good changes along with the PTS 2.0 stuff.


The hilarious thing is that with the Artemis "fix" (more like gelding), the ATM velocity increase is more than countered by the increased lock time on pretty much any ATM user with two brain cells firing together. Your missiles will actually take longer to get to the target simply because the time saved by higher velocity vanishes waiting for the lock to complete. Assuming the target just doesn't vanish entirely.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 20 August 2018 - 01:15 PM.


#38 Chris Lowrey

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:18 PM

View PostHiten Bongz, on 20 August 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

What the actual ****? ATMs are SUPPOSED to have Artemis built in already, you shouldn't even need to buy the upgrade. We need clarification as to if this actually nerfed the spread on ATMs, because if it did, that's...well, bs.

Thanks for the double nerfs due to the LRM spam you encouraged though, it's not as if ATMs didn't have a 2/3 unusable range bracket or anything already.


ATMs are considered to have Artemis baked into their core stats. This change will not affect their spread values as they where not affected by the Artemis upgrade just like MRM's and Rocket launchers. This will only affect the lock on angle and lock times.

#39 Brain Cancer

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:25 PM

View PostEisenhorne, on 20 August 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:


People who are unironically calling themselves "lurmers" should probably diversify their skillset. The only skill required in LRM play is by the person using the NARC light. LRMs have a narrow band where they are useful, just like ER Laser snipers or SRM brawlers. They shouldn't be useful in all situations, and they were too strong in too many situations. This might not even be enough of a nerf, we'll see.


Heck, I love me all kinds of missiles. ATMs, SRMs, SSRMs, LRMs. I think Arctic Wolves are extra cute because they have so many hardpoints I could just hug your kneecap and dump 48 SRMs into your CT from point blank range! It's not just the guided ones. I happen to love me a good old-fashioned Itano Circus.

I don't think people realize how much of a nerf this really is. Every Streak and ATM user that had any idea how to use them had Artemis on their machines. Most LRM users save the most dull used Artemis with any significant number of tubes because lock time is basically a forced firing penalty on LRMs, effectively making the time from "see target" to "target takes damage" longer.

With this change, most lock-on users just got a major boost in how much time it takes for them to hit a target, well past any benefit from higher velocity. It became that much easier to poke-and-fade right out of any of these weapon types and effective accuracy actually plummets since it's all about time-to-target, and Artemis losing that lock bonus is a universal increase in that time.

#40 Vellron2005

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:26 PM

View PostEisenhorne, on 20 August 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:


Bruh, I hit 4.3k damage yesterday in a faction play match with 2 lurm boats. 20 KMDD's. 6 solo kills. Zero skill required. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about with LRMs.

*edit - And my second lurm boat still had ammo left when the game ended.

** second edit - People who know how to play multiple styles are really the only people who should contribute to balance discussions, not people who only do a single thing and don't see the whole picture.


Why you think I only do a single thing is beyond me..

I play most styles, I just prefer LRMs as being the most fun.





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