453 replies to this topic

[Eisenhorne]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 21 August 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

The dumbest thing in the patch (as far as FW goes) is the Spider 5v +80% capture buff. While fine for Conquest, it will likely set off a wave of salt-inducing, stupidity in FW assault mode. You know not what you have done PGI.....noooooooo!!!

Oh my god... the ultimate trollstrat in FP. You take a horde of 12 spiders wave 1, run to the side of the map, wait until the enemy team starts capping your base because they're bored, then you have 12 spiders pounce on their base and basically insta-cap it because they get 2x cap speed.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

A brief (recent) history of lrms::

2016-2017: Lrms are a “meh” weapon system and thus are mostly avoided by many good players. Lrms are thus more used by novice players, who (because they are less skilled in MWO) use them even less effectively than good players would.

Early/mid 2018: seeing the often sub-par performance in Lrms based mechs PGI gives Lrms multiple buffs to bring their numbers when used by novices up to “average performance”.

Mid-2018: good players seeing that Lrms have had multiple usable buffs decide that Lrms are now a good weapon on several maps....in team based modes they use devastating strategies (narc/lrm) that make Lrms the weapon of choice on certain maps with little cover.

Late-summer 2018: PGI seeing that good players (and teams) are now getting far too much performance out of Lrms add new nerfs effecting all guided missles ....instead of just rolling back some of the buffs on Lrms.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 21 August 2018 - 01:21 PM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Eisenhorne, on 21 August 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

Oh my god... the ultimate trollstrat in FP. You take a horde of 12 spiders wave 1, run to the side of the map, wait until the enemy team starts capping your base because they're bored, then you have 12 spiders pounce on their base and basically insta-cap it because they get 2x cap speed.

You want to spend the match on guard duty (guarding the base for 4 waves)?.....so that a couple of 159 kph “salt-spiders” (trademark pending) don’t sneak in and cap you down in a flash (it only counts up to 4 mechs at a time I believe, but still 4=8 now).....I don’t...

I am ok with the cap buff if they remove assault mode from FW.....

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 21 August 2018 - 01:36 PM.

[nopempele]

I feel that these changes are too drastic and tilt the balance too much. The game was in a pretty steady state, why break everything? Small balancing changes are welcome, but this...

This reminds me of the time when LRM tracking power was enormously buffed leading to an almost unplayable state.

This is first time when I'm not sure that I want to download the patch and keep playing. Maybe I'll just wait out until current game designers have finished shaking and breaking the gameplay and it becomes more stable once again.

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

Why is global weapon lock angle being nerfed if LRMs are the problem?

This will probably be the final nail in the coffin of streaks being any sort of counter to the absolutely out of control situation with lights boating MGs and narc utterly dominating matches.

nopempele, on 21 August 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

This is first time when I'm not sure that I want to download the patch and keep playing. Maybe I'll just wait out until current game designers have finished shaking and breaking the gameplay and it becomes more stable once again.

That has been a thing with players for a long time. Wait a few days after a patch, so when PGI realizes they screwed up and issue hotfixes, you can avoid all of that time wasted patching their broken game for them.

[Racerxintegra2k]

At a time when i see a lot of questions as to why the population is low and people are fleeing, this MAKES perfect sense.

WHY would you obliterate 3 play styles. The destruction of Artemis is ridiculous as if 1 ton per launcher wasn't enough of a draw back for marginal gains now its worthless. Are you kidding me with that lock on reticle now ??? With the decreased lock on and the tighten reticle good luck using streaks. What a joke.


If this was my job i'd be embarrassed to turn something like this in as mine.

[Shaggath]

The real thing who make lrm awful is narc and at the end they stay here.
The narc nerf is a joke the power of the narc is her duration.
Low high cd at the end there is no reason to narc lot of people at the same time.
Artemis nerf **** more lrm boat with tag already expose, for narc who care you have lot time to acquire and fire to death the victim.

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

Z Paradox, on 21 August 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

I coudnt care for Narc cd of 7 sec if hit reg coud be good. hiting 5 narcs in ennemy point blank (~10m from me) and just last one activating is just a reason I have 4 tons of ammo. and now I nead to bring 2 narcs to compesate for long CD when narc dont register a hit???

This game has had a serious hitreg issue since a patch almost a year ago now? I forget the exact patch it clearly became an issue after, I think it was last October or November.

Pretty much daily, I'm in a situation where I'm shooting an enemy mech who is standing still, so issues with lag making me think I hit an enemy who isn't there anymore do not apply... And I'll dump an alpha into the enemy and nothing will happen, their paper doll doesn't even so much as light up.

I also frequently encounter enemy mechs that are like cored out, shot to ****, and I'm fresh so happy day, let's go in and 1v1 him down... And I will hit that enemy over and over, dumping a large amount of dmg into their already damaged components.. And next thing you know magically I'm CTed out and dead, no matter how much I twisted, and their paper doll will have barely changed colors even though I dumped enough shots into them to kill them several times over.

It was actually that issue and PGI's failure to do anything about it that changed my perspective on this game. I used to spend money on it, played with the intent of getting better. I was in a unit where I was active in helping other players git gud. But it eventually dawned on me, this game has too many playability flaws to take too seriously. You can play the right way and get screwed by the game itself, not a superior opponent. It's like trying to play chess and you tell the computer to move your queen to a certain spot, but it moves somewhere else and you just have to deal with the new position... As a customer, no, I don't.

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

Holy **** I still haven't read through the whole patch notes yet and these ******** changes are really irritating me...

Newsflash; If you want to make narc not so hard to counter, one change that would help is to make it so the missiles actually have a visible smoke trail like all other missiles in the game have. Why it is an almost invisible slug like gauss, I do not know.

The other thing that would help quite a lot is when a mech runs stealth, it cannot run narc. Not unlike how the slots have been rigged so that most ecm mechs can't carry gauss and large caliber LBXs (ergo weapons with no to little heat).

Another thing is to get rid of the stacking for lrms. If a mech is narced, that's it. Artemis and tag won't help. And then if it's tagged, Artemis won't help.


How does nerfing the firing rate an enemy mech can fire an invisible projectile from an invisible location have a significant impact on the issue? It's like whoever picked nerfing cooldown as the solution doesn't even understand the problem.

[HammerMaster]

ShooteyMcShooterson, on 21 August 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

Holy **** I still haven't read through the whole patch notes yet and these ******** changes are really irritating me...

Newsflash; If you want to make narc not so hard to counter, one change that would help is to make it so the missiles actually have a visible smoke trail like all other missiles in the game have. Why it is an almost invisible slug like gauss, I do not know.

The other thing that would help quite a lot is when a mech runs stealth, it cannot run narc. Not unlike how the slots have been rigged so that most ecm mechs can't carry gauss and large caliber LBXs (ergo weapons with no to little heat).

Another thing is to get rid of the stacking for lrms. If a mech is narced, that's it. Artemis and tag won't help. And then if it's tagged, Artemis won't help.


How does nerfing the firing rate an enemy mech can fire an invisible projectile from an invisible location have a significant impact on the issue? It's like whoever picked nerfing cooldown as the solution doesn't even understand the problem.

NARC needs a visible smoke trail.
A distinct strike sound.
An amount of hit points while attached so it's NOT a death sentence. (Location attached destroyed so is narc)
A possible counter such as HAND ACTUATORS able to pinch it off.

Edited by HammerMaster, 21 August 2018 - 02:25 PM.

[Ninjah]

Just tried IS streaks. I like it. Good job, you found that fine line where aiming poses a little challenge but not too much to make it frustrating.

[Firemage]

So I love combined arms, it feels lore better.


As such LRMs are 25% of any of my mech's load outs.


I hated the way ECM was done in this game since the start, and in one patch they weaken Missiles across the board and buff the bloody god cloak system.



Guess i'm spending more time in HOTS

[HammerMaster]

Firemage, on 21 August 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

So I love combined arms, it feels lore better.


As such LRMs are 25% of any of my mech's load outs.


I hated the way ECM was done in this game since the start, and in one patch they weaken Missiles across the board and buff the bloody god cloak system.



Guess i'm spending more time in HOTS

So I ask you to please express your concern about them not following lore as I have expressed.

[Pihoqahiak]

Ninjah, on 21 August 2018 - 01:35 AM, said:

"So I don't care about your s**t spam boats, learn to use something else, being able to do almost 2k damage in QP with a lrm boat is just insane. No other weapon system is able to do it."

"When I jump in front of a streak boat in a light mech by accident I know I'm dead in 3 volleys and if I somehow manage to escape my light is already wrecked and useless by a noob who doesn't even have to aim. This often happens in places without any cover so your arguments fail, not to mention additional LRM spam on my mech who already got locked. Playing lights is a freaking nightmare, hopefully it'll be somewhat better now."

Most other weapon systems don't NEED to do that much damage to achieve the same results. Most players that will die horribly to LRM boats will get murdered even quicker by good players with direct fire weapons.Two well aimed alphas from a good mech build will kill or cripple anything but a quirked/survival skill treed assault, and the really top end players will dual gauss headshot them.

Positioning is one of the most important skills to learn in this game. If you are in the open, you positioned poorly. Also, 3 volleys of Streaks is a LOT of time for a light to get out of there, make the Streak boat dead, or at least leg it before you die. And lastly, you likely didn't scout your target before engaging, blindly charging in only to find out it's a Streak boat.

Edited by Pihoqahiak, 21 August 2018 - 05:30 PM.

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

I like that idea of the narc being located on the component of the enemy mech it strikes, and so then when that component is blown off, the narc is gone. Only if it hit the CT (or ST on an IS XL) would a mech pretty much be screwed. This would also raise the possibility of a teammate blowing off the component that is narced, to save the overall mech.

Other ways of nerfing narc include shortening the duration of how long the narc lasts, as mentioned by several others.

Narc could also be changed so that it only reveals the enemy location/breaks ecm cover, but without any aid to lock time, spread or any other buff to the lrm's effectiveness beyond the ability to target an enemy.

And perhaps most easily, reduce its range! 450-600m is A LOT of breathing room for a fast moving, stealth cloaked mech. Make it more like 300-360 for both Clan and IS, and I bet that would help make it a riskier move.

[Pihoqahiak]

Bishop Six, on 21 August 2018 - 02:07 AM, said:

Most boring matches are for example:
Caustic Valley in FP. Both teams going full ****** with many Lurms boats. All are standing behind the ridges and waiting for locks. Both teams have about 2 or 3 direct fire mechs (including me). If you look over the ridge alone, you get about 1000 missiles on your head instantly. So you dont look over the ridge.
The lurm boats are looking to you, waiting for locks. You are looking back and sighs. Hilarious.

Sounds about as fun as when one team brings a wave of 72 ERLLs, yes, you read that correctly, 72, and sits in a corner of a map to snipe the first enemy mech that comes into view, from outside sensor range, forcing the enemy team to have to try a suicide march into them or sit back and wait 26 more minutes to lose. Both situations can be boring, frustrating matches, but can be overcome with sufficient cooperation on a team, unfortunately if it isn't a premade team, that will be almost impossible.

[Pihoqahiak]

Chados, on 21 August 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

From what I’m seeing, most of the people supporting this broad nerf are faction players hating premades building strategies around LRMs. And it may be...in fact, it makes sense...that changes like this show that balance decisions are made by considering only premade groups in faction warfare. Which means that if true, then solo and small groups in the QP queues...in other words, the majority of the population...are getting back seated in favor of balancing toward a mode with little population. That sounds pretty stupid as a balancing decision, but fits in with the push back toward FP.

Don't try to place this at the feet of Faction Play. It's actually pretty uncommon to see dedicated LRM teams in Faction Play, and unless they are matches against a team full of potatoes, they get pushed and stomped. There are only a couple maps that are LRM friendly where they could present a bit of a problem to competent players.

[HammerMaster]

Pihoqahiak, on 21 August 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Don't try to place this at the feet of Faction Play. It's actually pretty uncommon to see dedicated LRM teams in Faction Play, and unless they are matches against a team full of potatoes, they get pushed and stomped. There are only a couple maps that are LRM friendly where they could present a bit of a problem to competent players.

It's not faction play. It's abusers of faction play. Meta [Redacted]. And elitist [Redacted] that want to be top dog no matter the cost to lore.

Edited by draiocht, 22 August 2018 - 07:59 PM.
inappropriate references

[Pihoqahiak]

admiralbenbow123, on 21 August 2018 - 03:02 AM, said:

Here are some tips for you:
1) Don't want do die from 2x heavy gauss assaults? It,s simple: don't stand in front of them. You should have enough time to react and get back to cover before they charge up their gauss rifles and shoot you. Also, any assault mech with 2x HGR isn't fast enough to get close to you quickly, so keep moving and repositioning and you won't die.
2) Don't want to die from piranhas with 12 MGs? It's also simple: don't separate yourself from your team. Even piranhas with so many machine guns need to stare at you for about 5-7 seconds while not moving much to actually do enough damage to one component, which is enough time for your team to either kill a piranha or at least damage it enough and make it run away.
I hope these tips help you

Both your examples require the Dual Gauss and PIR pilots to be.....not good. Skilled Gauss users have learned when they should be precharging their weapons in preparation for seeing the enemy since that mechanic was implemented years ago, and skilled light pilots learn to fire very effectively while moving.

[Sengir79]

Pihoqahiak, on 21 August 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Don't try to place this at the feet of Faction Play. It's actually pretty uncommon to see dedicated LRM teams in Faction Play, and unless they are matches against a team full of potatoes, they get pushed and stomped. There are only a couple maps that are LRM friendly where they could present a bit of a problem to competent players.

I have seen nothing but lurms in FP for the past 2 weeks including 12 man groups literally all bringing lurms and a pair of ravens to narc for them. It was so brutal one of them came into my live stream to apologise for the lurm rain.