357 replies to this topic

[Monkey Lover]

Nightbird, on 14 September 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

Yes.. real loyalists play quick play

Seriously, better objective design, spawns, and some tricks to allow imbalanced skill teams to have a closer fight are what is needed for FP today. There's no discussion on that. The proposed MM won't work due to math (probability based on queuing theory, a master's level discussion).

House marik was killed by pgi for two reason, CW and tonnage limits on group q without basing them on skill levels.

From what i can tell by house Mariks TS server and my friends list ,most loyalist have quit. My last unit still sits in the ts server playing other games but they no longer plays mwo.

Saying this i hope something can be done with FP and it can save the game i remember playing. I dont have high hopes after they say they can't do anything that requires a lot of resources.

[Monkey Lover]

Davegt27, on 14 September 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

if you guys could get 3 things what would it be

and stop worrying about if joe blow pilot is smoking in his cockpit (jumping factions)

#1 make loyalist worth being so people take pride in their faction and they fight long hours for it.
#2 balance, Low skilled players,small units and low population factions should all want to play. Give no reason not to play!
#3 reasons to play long hours not just for cbill/mc/decals. Start towards a NBT clone.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 14 September 2018 - 01:35 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Honestly, nothing short of a rework and a relaunch after MW5 is going to save MWO from the current spiral. It needs a major event to bring in eyes old and new and it needs to be sufficiently changed and solid so that some of those eyes stay.

[BumbaCLot]

Monkey Lover, on 14 September 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

So you jumped to 4 factions in a few weeks and you have no loyalty but the whole time being a loyalist.

Paul, can you see why most the real loyalist quit this mode?

Truth is at this point I don't know if they would come back anyway.

Yeah because this is a FPS not an RPG.
Sorry to hurt your lore feelings.

[Monkey Lover]

BumbaCLot, on 14 September 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

Yeah because this is a FPS not an RPG.
Sorry to hurt your lore feelings.

I know nothing of BT lore other than what i have seen people talk about. What i know of is the game i have played for 5 years. Its not like what you're doing it wrong I don't blame you. If all you care about cbills and mechbays than you're a merc. My comment was to Paul.

Problem is a lot of people dont only care about getting rewards they play for other reasons. When you remove these reasons these people stop playing.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 14 September 2018 - 02:30 PM.

[Antoninus Pius]

An idea for overhauling Mercs.

Let them choose their contracts like it is right now. But there should be some negotiations before signing a contract. More bonus for longer contract and lesser bonus for shorter contracts. All depending on population of the specific faction the Mercs want to join.

Breaking a long term contract should be severly penalized.

[Cato Zilks]

Nightbird, on 14 September 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

Paul already said variable tonnage decks will NEVER happen, any other ideas? Plus, keep in mind if you're an average pilot, you will be punished if a good team joins your faction and maybe forced to leave.

Right, I am not proposing personalized tonnage based on player skill (which is very intensive process that was rightly poo-pooed (poo-pooed looks really funny spelled out)). The change I am calling for is a core rewriting of how the game views teams and factions (this is the biggest drawback from a convincing PGI standpoint). How they change faction tonnages after that is just like it is now and therefore no absurdly complicated mechanics. And yes, if a really good team joins your terribad faction (which has boosted tonnage to make up for suckyness), then your tonnage will likely go down. But, if we tie goals back to the faction winning we incentivize the good team to train the bad puggles into less-bad puggles.

Nightbird, on 14 September 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

If the loyalists can get matches without waiting, i.e. YOU don't have to move, isn't it good enough? You want to force other players to play how you want them to as well? This would not end well.

This is not about how I want to play, it is about proposing a functional system that works within PGI's stated vision. Paul specifically harps on this faction hopping in the podcast and it does obviously undermine the story aspects that he wants to promote in the future. Faction hopping has to go for Paul's vision but we need some mechanism in place for balancing the population.

Edited by Cato Zilks, 14 September 2018 - 04:11 PM.

[Nightbird]

Cato Zilks, on 14 September 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

This is not about how I want to play, it is about proposing a functional system that works within PGI's stated vision.

Ah now I understand. I never viewed the stated vision as achievable, so I was only considering practical solutions. That vision is not possible without many times more resources than it took to implement Solaris after all.

Edited by Nightbird, 14 September 2018 - 05:08 PM.

[BumbaCLot]

Monkey Lover, on 14 September 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

I know nothing of BT lore other than what i have seen people talk about. What i know of is the game i have played for 5 years. Its not like what you're doing it wrong I don't blame you. If all you care about cbills and mechbays than you're a merc. My comment was to Paul.

Problem is a lot of people dont only care about getting rewards they play for other reasons. When you remove these reasons these people stop playing.

No I care about Faction Play. The actual combat part. Playing as a 12 man vs other 12 men in 4 respawn mode and invasion siege.
Events happen, and my unit goes to where the action is. The 'loyalists' be they some RPGers or Lore guys, are missing out on the game as it stands.
My unit switches to get matches, and for it's new members to get rewards, and the mech bays at level 2 and 6 help keep them in the game.
I just joined MS, and they are one of the most active FP groups I know of. They switch when the games dry up. They switch when events happen.
They have been clan for 2+ weeks, and are wondering when the next event will happen so we can switch again or not.
So it all comes down to actually playing the game for me and the others i play with every night. Not a map, or lore, or rewards really. Those are all just by-products.
If people quit because of RPG/Lore/Map painting, then they weren't here to blow up robots in PVP.

[BumbaCLot]

Monkey Lover, on 14 September 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

#1 make loyalist worth being so people take pride in their faction and they fight long hours for it.
#2 balance, Low skilled players,small units and low population factions should all want to play. Give no reason not to play!
#3 reasons to play long hours not just for cbill/mc/decals. Start towards a NBT clone.

How many hours in FP did you put in the past 2 months?
Just 1 day during the wedding? I can't remember if Marik had an event or I was on the other side.
If you think that is 'putting in hours fighting for something ' (one day a month or one week every 2 months) just to see a map painted, that is what gives this game value for you?
It just seems silly to me as someone who has only played a couple of months.
3-4 years ago there may have been big battles for Tukayyid etc.. but now there is just groups trying to play the game every night.

[Monkey Lover]

BumbaCLot, on 14 September 2018 - 09:34 PM, said:

How many hours in FP did you put in the past 2 months?
Just 1 day during the wedding? I can't remember if Marik had an event or I was on the other side.
If you think that is 'putting in hours fighting for something ' (one day a month or one week every 2 months) just to see a map painted, that is what gives this game value for you?
It just seems silly to me as someone who has only played a couple of months.
3-4 years ago there may have been big battles for Tukayyid etc.. but now there is just groups trying to play the game every night.

2 months? Zero hours. I stopped playing after 1 bucket. Before this no idea, i think im up to general in Marik as I remember. I think i can go up 2 levels before im maxed out.

People(i was there) fought those battles 3-4 years ago for their faction. It was the houses who had 4+ teams running. So yes i played to paint the map purple. 4 spawn group q with choke points doesn't cut it for me anymore.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 15 September 2018 - 01:19 AM.

[Davegt27]

"
#1 make loyalist worth being so people take pride in their faction and they fight long hours for it.
#2 balance, Low skilled players,small units and low population factions should all want to play. Give no reason not to play!
#3 reasons to play long hours not just for cbill/mc/decals. Start towards a NBT clone."

BumbaCLot, on 14 September 2018 - 09:34 PM, said:

How many hours in FP did you put in the past 2 months?
Just 1 day during the wedding? I can't remember if Marik had an event or I was on the other side.
If you think that is 'putting in hours fighting for something ' (one day a month or one week every 2 months) just to see a map painted, that is what gives this game value for you?
It just seems silly to me as someone who has only played a couple of months.
3-4 years ago there may have been big battles for Tukayyid etc.. but now there is just groups trying to play the game every night.

monkey lover's ideas and goals are still valid

I play all the time and must have swapped factions 5 times ( with the 10 match penalty each time)

as we work toward improvements its a great idea to work in lore and pride in factions
I just want the mechanical improvements to come first

improved game maker: in work by Paul
economy: (with things like jump ship costs, star lane access costs, contracts for mercs)
lore: with events at first, mini story lines like Paul's kidnap scenario

[BumbaCLot]

Davegt27, on 15 September 2018 - 03:53 AM, said:

"
#1 make loyalist worth being so people take pride in their faction and they fight long hours for it.
#2 balance, Low skilled players,small units and low population factions should all want to play. Give no reason not to play!
#3 reasons to play long hours not just for cbill/mc/decals. Start towards a NBT clone."




monkey lover's ideas and goals are still valid

I play all the time and must have swapped factions 5 times ( with the 10 match penalty each time)

as we work toward improvements its a great idea to work in lore and pride in factions
I just want the mechanical improvements to come first

improved game maker: in work by Paul
economy: (with things like jump ship costs, star lane access costs, contracts for mercs)
lore: with events at first, mini story lines like Paul's kidnap scenario

Ok I'm new here, so bear with me. I see the tug of war stuff, and is it good / bad / too long / etc?
How do planet tags work?
Voting I don't get.
If there is only one war going on presently can only one faction or merc unit gain it?
Nothing makes sense, and as long as it stays that way, I play to play.
Without knowing all of the above (and it would be way more confusing for people just starting) it's silly.
I've played more faction matches than the majority of people in the past 2 months, and I still know nothing and don't see how/where it is explained in game.
That is the main reason I literally don't care about those who don't play now and think it is going to change a ton while people are complaining about lore and loyalists etc..
If people left, they don't care about the same things I care about.
If they left because of MM, then hopefully Paul's change will fix that.
If some other reason, then yeah, it doesn't probably matter.
50 people hit the top level in loyalist, so it wasn't that important and only a few cared enough to do that.
So either the system was bad, is bad, or will forever be bad.

Edit: the event rewards seem to be driving the game. If those aren't important to older players, I get it, but the newer players and weekend warriors seem to be falling over themselves to get them.
That's why I said all of this stuff I don't understand doesn't matter. It might, but I just don't see it.

Half of this thread is people talking about stuff that isn't going to change or is going to hurt new players even more for a bad choice they had no idea about (tonnage etc..)

Edited by BumbaCLot, 15 September 2018 - 09:33 AM.

[Davegt27]

FP patch notes

https://mwomercs.com...-1465-19apr2016

on forums every argument there is a counter argument
its just the nature of the beast

for example when PGI announced a FP reset well that pissed some people off and the quit the game
but I never played a game that did not come to an end (win condition)

take away some of the penalties for loyalist contract well people don't like that (I was in the military for 33.5 years and guess what every 4 years I had to either extend or reenlist)

ever play the board game Risk super simple
it had
a faction vs Faction war
lines of attack and defend (star lanes)
a clear front (would help prevent hopping factions since you could not magically appear at a front)
politics, negotiations, back stabbing
each round you received a base pay
more pay out for more territory
on top of all that it was/is a fun game

FP is great it just needs some tweaking

[BumbaCLot]

Davegt27, on 15 September 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

FP patch notes

https://mwomercs.com...-1465-19apr2016

Thanks, will give it a read!
Had some fun matches tonight but Eisenhorne killed me too many times for my tastes!

[Tier5ForLife]

I think that the no I.A. excuse/reason is lame.

I'm petty sure that the Academy has enough A.I. to run a simple NPC unit. I myself have wondered if PGI does not do it because they believe that the player base does not want to face NPC (Non-Player Characters)

Forget dropping new mechs, put some effect into improving this part of the game. If money is the issue, sell us a "Faction Warfare supporter" and "NPC Unit supporter" badge or whatever much like the "Mech_Con 2018 Virtual Ticket" and the "Tournament Supporter". Buying the Faction Warfare Supporter and the NPC Unit Supporter" should give the player a year-long boost to C-Bills and XP per match.

And if PGI wants to sell more "Mech_Con 2018 Virtual Tickets", it should include a 10% increase to C-Bills and XP. If you add that I will buy one today. I could care less about Flags and Warhorns.

Let's dive into the cost of PGI selling items that give the players more C-Bills and XP. After painstaking calculations, it seems that the cost to PGI is ZERO.


As far as Sieges, If not part of the FW Academy, there should be maps that players can walk that have working Gates, Turrets, Gens and Omega.

If in the FW Academy there would be arrows and lines showing where to go and Tips on what to do. It should teach players how to kill turrets, How to drop the Gates, where to shoot at the Gens (the small window) and where to shoot Omega.

I REFUSE to believe that this is possible, I think it is more that PGI does not have the money or time or desire to do it.

A few examples are when you drop and you have the same Clan guy and the same I.S. guy started you off as you land. Plus during Faction Warfare, you still have a voice saying that the enemy has Artillery when there is no Long Tom anymore.

Not changing them is SIMPLY LAZY. I REFUSE to believe that these simple thing cannot be done.

Like moving the one base on Crimson Strait so the other team simply comes over the saddle and takes it. And the side with that base has to defend it. I've seen the one base taken 100's of times (twice last night in only a few games) and the base at the bottom left I've seen taken maybe 5-7 times.

And a better chat is needed, one where you can link things like your website or more important, your TeamSpeak information. There should be a known TeamSpeak for PUGs. And there should be a chat that is friends only along with an LFG that is friends only.

I REFUSE to believe that PGI cannot do these things. The way I understand it, they are like a software/internet company or something close.

[Nightbird]

AI for people to shoot would increase the accessibility of the game by 10 fold, I'm surprised that PGI said they're not interested in it at all.

[BumbaCLot]

LikeUntoBuddha, on 16 September 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

I think that the no I.A. excuse/reason is lame.

I'm petty sure that the Academy has enough A.I. to run a simple NPC unit. I myself have wondered if PGI does not do it because they believe that the player base does not want to face NPC (Non-Player Characters)

Forget dropping new mechs, put some effect into improving this part of the game. If money is the issue, sell us a "Faction Warfare supporter" and "NPC Unit supporter" badge or whatever much like the "Mech_Con 2018 Virtual Ticket" and the "Tournament Supporter". Buying the Faction Warfare Supporter and the NPC Unit Supporter" should give the player a year-long boost to C-Bills and XP per match.

And if PGI wants to sell more "Mech_Con 2018 Virtual Tickets", it should include a 10% increase to C-Bills and XP. If you add that I will buy one today. I could care less about Flags and Warhorns.

Let's dive into the cost of PGI selling items that give the players more C-Bills and XP. After painstaking calculations, it seems that the cost to PGI is ZERO.


As far as Sieges, If not part of the FW Academy, there should be maps that players can walk that have working Gates, Turrets, Gens and Omega.

If in the FW Academy there would be arrows and lines showing where to go and Tips on what to do. It should teach players how to kill turrets, How to drop the Gates, where to shoot at the Gens (the small window) and where to shoot Omega.

I REFUSE to believe that this is possible, I think it is more that PGI does not have the money or time or desire to do it.

A few examples are when you drop and you have the same Clan guy and the same I.S. guy started you off as you land. Plus during Faction Warfare, you still have a voice saying that the enemy has Artillery when there is no Long Tom anymore.

Not changing them is SIMPLY LAZY. I REFUSE to believe that these simple thing cannot be done.

Like moving the one base on Crimson Strait so the other team simply comes over the saddle and takes it. And the side with that base has to defend it. I've seen the one base taken 100's of times (twice last night in only a few games) and the base at the bottom left I've seen taken maybe 5-7 times.

And a better chat is needed, one where you can link things like your website or more important, your TeamSpeak information. There should be a known TeamSpeak for PUGs. And there should be a chat that is friends only along with an LFG that is friends only.

I REFUSE to believe that PGI cannot do these things. The way I understand it, they are like a software/internet company or something close.

it'sbecausetimenotplayingmatchesismoretimewaitingforamatch.and pve is stupid it's called mwo

[Tier5ForLife]

Sometimes reality comes up and slaps you in the face. Times change and Businesses that stay ahead of the time stay in business. If not, you become Blockbuster.

There could be no more Ghost Drops. "Weaker" teams could get help. There could be "corporate raids".

[Horseman]

Discussing AI is moot. Paul mentioned some time ago that plugging a functional AI into the system is not an option at present.