357 replies to this topic

[Grus]

Or, and this is hypocritical, if say.. bcmc, evil, kcom, ISEN were all on IS and a much lower SSR team is in the que. Can said lower SSR get maybe more tonnage? Or does the higher SSR get less as a trade?

[Monkey Lover]

Grus, on 02 September 2018 - 08:43 PM, said:

Or, and this is hypocritical, if say.. bcmc, evil, kcom, ISEN were all on IS and a much lower SSR team is in the que. Can said lower SSR get maybe more tonnage? Or does the higher SSR get less as a trade?

Might work but i would guess most teams would just sync drop to get around the tonnage limits.

Group q, group size tonnage limits has basically removed the 12 man team. I used to play on one all the time. I can't think of the last time i have played on a full 12 team.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 02 September 2018 - 10:23 PM.

[Cato Zilks]

Grus, on 02 September 2018 - 08:43 PM, said:

Or, and this is hypocritical, if say.. bcmc, evil, kcom, ISEN were all on IS and a much lower SSR team is in the que. Can said lower SSR get maybe more tonnage? Or does the higher SSR get less as a trade?

Variable tonnage that resets based on match disparity is way to much of a headache for PGI and the players (you would not know how much tonnage you had to work with until you had a match.) That being said, the core concept here is at the heart of my earlier proposals. To do this we need a core code edit and a general shift to stable FW populations in each faction and then balance the skill disparities between factions by weight and shifting alliances.

Edited by Cato Zilks, 03 September 2018 - 12:27 AM.

[Tier5ForLife]

I really do not see things like changing the tonnage working. Will you get an alert in that in THIS upcoming match that you have 25 more or 15 tons less? And how much time will you have to redo your deck?

As much as I hate getting stomped by 12 man teams, phasing them out is not IMO the way to go. This is why you are in a unit, so you can play as a team with your friends.

I think partly what is needed is to open up some Teamspeak dropships for "pugs" or anyone that is not on a team with 3 others. Then they can talk and plan at least a little and also see what it is like to do so. It is right there to click on and to get to.

This little chat simply can't work. It is a joke in 2018, it looks like one from the 1990's. Not everyone can type really fast and it is easier to say ideas than to write them down. Plus they can use Mapstrat to show everyone the map, where things are and the plan. And that is really important.

And if PGI ever makes an FW academy, parts of this would be able to be used to help players learn and to plan. For instance, on this map in siege mode and you are defending, here are the best places to be.

YOU CANNOT PUT LINKS IN ANY OF THE CHATS HERE AND THAT SUCKS BIG TIME.

And an LFG with friends only and friends only chat would also help. In other games like Madden NFL, the use of third party sites make a big difference in the game. It is the way players playing Franchise mode communicate, check standings and stats, talk about games, plan games do free agency and the draft etc etc.

If PGI cannot do it, they should allow others to do it.

Edited by LikeUntoBuddha, 03 September 2018 - 05:53 AM.

[Tamerlin]

LikeUntoBuddha, on 03 September 2018 - 05:49 AM, said:

YOU CANNOT PUT LINKS IN ANY OF THE CHATS HERE AND THAT SUCKS BIG TIME.

Yes, you can. It's the number on the top right of each post.

[Tamerlin]

I played Faction Play (FP) for the first time in 18 months due to this weekend's Turtle Bay: Aftermath event, and I still hate it. So, I thought I'd document why.

My problems with FP are: 1. Matchmaker (MM), 2. Spawn Farming, 3. Quick Play maps, 4. Lore and Design

1. MM - it seems 90% of matches are stomps/rolls: either you roll or get rolled. MM changes have been discussed in this thread and the recent MWO video, and I don't think the proposed change makes things any worse. So, I'll wait and see, and won't discuss this any further.

2. Spawn Farming - I was surprised that spawn farming is still allowed. A few months ago, World of Tanks tested their "Frontline" mode, which had many similarities with FP. In Frontline each team's spawn area had a "do not enter" area - if the other team crossed into the spawn area they are one-shot destroyed by off-map AI controlled artillery within ~10 seconds (the player gets a warning when they enter this zone). FP needs something like this.

Recommendation: FP should add a "do not enter" zone that begins ~100 meters beyond a team's drop zone gates/walls - this is where the cockpit warning is given (like stepping beyond the map border). The idea is the enemy mech is Long Tommed and destroyed before it can enter the drop zone and provide intel. Thus, a team can safely consolidate within their drop zone and exit from any/all of the 3+ gates.

• "But what about FP-scout-mode provided satellite intel?" The drop zone has permanent ECM that blocks the location aspect of satellite intel - mech chassis/variant is still reported, but not map location.
  
• "But what if the team just camps within their spawn?" For Assault and Conquest this is a non-issue - just cap them out. But for Skirmish and Siege modes this is harder; I suggest adding a "mech in the battlefield" timer. If a team does not have a mech outside of their drop zone after # minutes, a Domination mode-style countdown starts. However, you don't want this timer to be completely reset by a sneaky light mech putting one foot outside of the zone and then dashing back into the protected drop zone. So, the rate of the countdown depends on the number of camping mechs and the total length of time they have not left their drop zone. This timer could be started by an AFK mech(s), but so long as active players continue to exit the drop zone there should not be an issue.
  
• "But what if a 12-jump-jet Spider-5V looks over a drop zone's walls and reports positions?" If a team brings high jump jet mechs into FP just to look over walls, good luck to them. MWO could add turrets within the drop zone if this becomes a real issue.
  
• "But what about artillery/airstrikes into the drop zone?" Mechs within their drop zone are invulnerable; the enemy team is just wasting their Cbills and consumables.
  
• "But what if we just park LRMs in the spawn zone?" - Mech in spawn cannot fire any weapons. [edit]

If this "no mechs in the battlefield" counter countdown completes, the losing team should receive Cbill and Xp penalties. No one should be rewarded for camping.

[edit] Perhaps a more simple answer is that if an enemy mech enter the drop zone, Drop Ships appear (with their turrets), and don't leave until the drop zone is clear.

3. Quick Play Maps - I never was a fan of adding quick play maps and modes to FP. I already play 15-minutes-max-single-life quick play on the quick play maps, why play 30-minutes-max-four-lives faction play on the same maps? There isn't enough of a difference. For me the entire point of FP was the Siege game mode.

However, it looks like this decision has been made; it just reduces the reason for me to want to play FP. But I'd like to see the Siege Counter Attack maps enter Quick Play. There shouldn't need to be many changes to make this work for a single-life QP with the Assault or Domination modes - Conquest could be a little trickier.

4. FP Overall Lore and Design - Warning, this rant goes into the whole setting of FP. This is not as important to me as #1 and #2, but it is a "final straw" that keeps me from caring about FP.

Travel: The "Battle for the Inner Sphere" map is epic, but FP violates several BattleTech lore travel aspects - the slow movement of information and material/personnel. In MWO FP a unit can battle on Liao/New Roland and then instantly travel to a battle on Rasalhague/Skallevoll almost 700 light years away. In lore a jump ship is limited to 30 light years for a single jump and it could take up to a week to recharge at each star. This New Roland to Skallevoll trip should take almost 23 weeks. And afterwards it could take another week for the dropship move to the actual planet. I understand with a world-wide player base and 24-hour access such travel restrictions can't be put into FP, but it lowers my immersion.

Economy: I admire PGI for working so hard to create a common economy across the different MWO games - Quick Play, Faction Play, Solaris and Comp Mode. The mechs and equipment are cross platform - Cbills and Experience you earn in one MWO game can help you in the other MWO games. However, for FP this takes away from the "great campaign" feel it's going for.

This pokes at repair and rearm costs. I understand that you don't want a player to not be able to play a game because they ran out of FP-unique money, and you don't want players to just hide because they lose Cbills for every hit they take. But this is exactly what the lore has - owning a mech has a real cost, including travel costs. QP, Solaris and Comp are only focused on that single match, but FP is a campaign, and it just doesn't feel that way.

Recommendation: Faction Play should be "all Tukayyid, all the time," especially since we are a single MM bucket now. Replace the Inner Sphere map with a Tukayyid world map with numerous battle zones. Units that were particularly important in winning a zone are rewarded and called out in some kind of "FP Newscast". As one side wins more the rewards for playing on the losing side increase.

This removes the travel problems, but not the economy. I just don't think you can properly create an FP economy without going all Eve-like, and ef-that. So, I'll just play HBS Battletech and wait for MW5 for such a campaign setting.

Bottom line - so long the MM issues and Spawn Farming are still a thing I will continue to not care about Faction Play. Personally, I think Faction Play should only be turned on for specific (perhaps week-long) events. QP and Solaris is enough for the regular players and teams, altho this gets into the QP group queue vs. FP drop tonnage limits (which I won't discuss here).

PS: I'd love to see the FP tonnage restriction moved to team-wide. Rather than each player having a range they must meet; the team has a range. For example, suppose the single player tonnage limit is 160-250 tons (depending on Clan vs IS, which I'm not getting into here). If two players group up they have a shared 320-500 ton pool - one play can bring four Locusts and the other player can bring four Atlases. With respect to in-match game mechanics this is the same thing, it just lets someone who is only good in a particular mech class stay with what they like.

PS2: I'd like to know the statistics on how many teams win FP after losing the first engagement (their first 12 mechs). If this is less than 10-15%, then what's the point of going thru the four mech drop deck?

Edited by Tamerlin, 03 September 2018 - 12:31 PM.

[vonJerg]

2.- ok, so we gonna park all our lrm boats in our dropzone where they are safe, and send 1-2 light narcers out.

I think you need to rethink your ideas, but first, ask yourself: how has enemy managed to get all the way across the map and into your spawn point with sufficient numbers and healt in the first place.

[Tamerlin]

vonJerg, on 03 September 2018 - 11:41 AM, said:

2.- ok, so we gonna park all our lrm boats in our dropzone where they are safe, and send 1-2 light narcers out.

Good point. Added an answer.

Perhaps a more simple answer is that if an enemy mech enter the drop zone, Drop Ships appear (with their turrets), and don't leave until the drop zone is clear.

Edited by Tamerlin, 03 September 2018 - 12:13 PM.

[Horseman]

Tamerlin, on 03 September 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

Yes, you can. It's the number on the top right of each post.

He's talking about the in-game chat, I think?

Edited by Horseman, 03 September 2018 - 12:14 PM.

[Peter2k]

Tamerlin, on 03 September 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

Yes, you can. It's the number on the top right of each post.

Sigh

He means ingame chat
As other games have more sophisticated chat functions that fit into an age approaching 2020


It's a long standing issue that ingame chat is "lacking"


Btw, while I don't mind th new forum looks, I would've preferred some fixes and more modern approaches to the forum a lot more

Edited by Peter2k, 03 September 2018 - 01:50 PM.

[Tier5ForLife]

Horseman, on 03 September 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

He's talking about the in-game chat, I think?

DUH!

And here is the awesome main chat.

[Vellron2005]

Here are a few ideas for improving Faction play:

1) Make specific factions give loyalty rewards in the forms of specific mechs.. Like Clan Wolf loyalists get a fully clan wolf-ed Timberwolf, Smoke jaguars get an ebon jaguar, Kuritans get a Dragon, Steiners get a Highlander and so on..

Mercs get a Marauder.

Higher level rewards can give out Hero or Champion mechs..

2) Limit group sizes to 4. That way, big units can still drop together, but can't throw their weight around as much, and solos have a much bigger role.

3) Add a third objective-driven invasion mode: Strike - Where the objective is to take out / defend 3 support structures randomly placed on the map.. it's played 4 vs 4, but with heavy and assault mechs - so basically kinda like scouting, but with higher weight classes. (this type of play is extremely fun in PTS). (will suggest this in a separate topic)

4) Give us different objectives besides just taking down omega..

[vonJerg]

@Vellron2005, point 2: how about big NO.

Most of the FP regulars are still here because of the all the friends they made, and if you take them ability to drop with as many friends as they can, plus the ability to reduce randomnes of the game by controling as many varables as posible, many will give up and leave. Demenish team play in FP and those that stayed for so long will finaly leave.

For small groups you have group play in quick play. Leave the last bastion of 12v12!

Edited by vonJerg, 04 September 2018 - 01:17 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

Vellron2005, on 04 September 2018 - 12:21 AM, said:

2) Limit group sizes to 4. That way, big units can still drop together, but can't throw their weight around as much, and solos have a much bigger role.

I'd rather see the game die than be forced to play with 8 morons on my team each time. "Solos" are generally bad players who cannot find a team because they are either unwilling or unable, which in either case means I don't want them on my team.

Had a decent game vs KCOM yesterday... we ended up tying because one of our solo players wouldn't get with the program, and thought he'd try to take on 12 guys at once because "his LBX20 wasn't going to work at the ranges we were asking him to fight at".... Just back up with us, and wait for the push... but no, he didn't listen, he assumed he knew better than us. So we tied. Good game, but we could have won. If not for a dumb solo player.

The fewer of them I have to suffer on my team the better.

[BumbaCLot]

LikeUntoBuddha, on 01 September 2018 - 07:02 AM, said:

If you play long enough, you hopefully will learn where the turrets are. (they are always in the same place) And try to learn from others how to stay away from the Dropship guns.

Best of luck!

I know where the turrets are. You suggested adding 5-20 of them invisibly. Which would wreck any sort of role warfare sending in a light / medium to gather intel when they get shot in the rear by something that shouldn't be there.

I'm not concerned with dying to dropship guns. My WLR is well above 1 and my KDR is below 1. The players I play FP with often call to burn mechs in a round, and regroup don't reinforce. So if we are hitting a dropship it is with the intent to injure the enemy's 2nd/4th wave. And the better players that don't die end up with more chances for higher match score/damage/KDR than those who get shot. But when a call is made to go into a dropship landing, I obey, as the DC's logic is 5 going in vs 1 going in, the dropship is going to shoot 5 people once vs 1 person 5 times.

I may never get my KDR above 1.0 again playing with greedy hungry vets and playing way more FP than QP. That's just the math of it. I can play without them and try to do better than the other pugs to even it out. But winning the battle is my main goal, so when told to push I do.

[BumbaCLot]

Eisenhorne, on 04 September 2018 - 06:23 AM, said:

I'd rather see the game die than be forced to play with 8 morons on my team each time. "Solos" are generally bad players who cannot find a team because they are either unwilling or unable, which in either case means I don't want them on my team.

Had a decent game vs KCOM yesterday... we ended up tying because one of our solo players wouldn't get with the program, and thought he'd try to take on 12 guys at once because "his LBX20 wasn't going to work at the ranges we were asking him to fight at".... Just back up with us, and wait for the push... but no, he didn't listen, he assumed he knew better than us. So we tied. Good game, but we could have won. If not for a dumb solo player.

The fewer of them I have to suffer on my team the better.

And imagine our 6-8 man's feeling when we show up on Forest Colony and Vellron is on our team (bringing nothing but LRMs) Friday or Saturday night. But hey he was able to get some good damage numbers sitting back while the rest of us pushed. I wonder if he asked us what he should bring or tried to coordinate with us in the loading screen? Hmm. I don't recall.

[Eisenhorne]

BumbaCLot, on 04 September 2018 - 06:33 AM, said:

And imagine our 6-8 man's feeling when we show up on Forest Colony and Vellron is on our team (bringing nothing but LRMs) Friday or Saturday night. But hey he was able to get some good damage numbers sitting back while the rest of us pushed. I wonder if he asked us what he should bring or tried to coordinate with us in the loading screen? Hmm. I don't recall.

Sadly this is the norm for many players. "I play this way regardless of what my team is doing. Good luck everyone else!"

Just completely uninterested in being actually useful.

[Ripper X]

1.3.2 Participating as a Merc Unit

• Merc Units are deposited into the general queue.
  
• Merc Unit participation requires a group of [2] or more.
  
• Merc Unit participation gains a small [5%] CB boost for every match they play

You have to rethink this. My Merc unit is small. Many times only one of us is on and are unable to select the faction. You are forcing people to leave their Merc unit and sign up as either a Loyalist or a Freelancer.



As for spawn camping. Have the dropships hang in the area for at least 1 minute and actually give them weapons that should scare the crap out of players trying to rush the spawn.

Edited by Ripper X, 04 September 2018 - 11:23 AM.

[BumbaCLot]

Ripper X, on 04 September 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

1.3.2 Participating as a Merc Unit

• Merc Units are deposited into the general queue.
  
• Merc Unit participation requires a group of [2] or more.
  
• Merc Unit participation gains a small [5%] CB boost for every match they play

You have to rethink this. My Merc unit is small. Many times only one of us is on and are unable to select the faction. You are forcing people to leave their Merc unit and sign up as either a Loyalist or a Freelancer.




As for spawn camping. Have the dropships hang in the area for at least 1 minute and actually give them weapons that should scare the crap out of players trying to rush the spawn.

A properly damaged solo mech SHOULD be scared of a dropship. That's what people fail to understand unless they've been on the winning side. It's only losers that complain about spawn camping, because they couldn't even dent an attacking wave.
Time and time again, they don't either make a dent in the 1st wave and think they will have some comeback, or coordinate to win their spawn back (Caustic for example).

I had an awesome game this week where LRM boats on wave 1 demolished half of our team, spawn camped me on my 2nd mech, I called for a group leader to move me to a second lance, pushed them back, took back the kill lead, and finally won the game. It was hard fought, and one of the sweetest victories over LRMs I've had. My 2nd mech was completely wrecked, and I called in comms that we needed to get our drop back, and lost my 2nd mech from it. The enemies probably think they had us beaten, and I would have loved to see/hear/feel the empty robbed feeling they got after being outplayed by non-LRMs.

[Paul Inouye]

Update:

All community suggestions are going through tech reviews and task breakdowns. This is where I take each suggestion and break out all aspects of what needs to be done to get the feature implemented. This includes what engineers will have to do, what art has to do, and what changes to the UI/UX paths need to be done.

On a side note, a few of the smaller items are already in a build but those smaller items will be held to be released with the main update. e.g. There's a refresh button on the friends list!