34 replies to this topic

[Hiten Bongz]

The 8/21 patch is a direct nerf to Artemis, which is a direct nerf to ATMs considering ATMs have Artemis baked in to the launchers. EDIT: Let it be known that I am NOT complaining about the Artemis loophole being closed, or asking for a return of stacked Artemis. ATMs have integrated Artemis, which was also nerfed, and THAT is what my problem is.

Chris Lowrey, on 20 August 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

ATMs are considered to have Artemis baked into their core stats. This change will not affect their spread values as they where not affected by the Artemis upgrade just like MRM's and Rocket launchers. This will only affect the lock on angle and lock times.

So, PGI, you've stripped 2 out of 3 bonuses away from Artemis entirely, yet left 100% of it's additional weight, crits, and cost attached to the equipment itself, and thus ATM launchers.

I'd like the option to strip this [now] useless tech out of my ATM launchers and regain some needed tonnage, crit slots, and cost.

Or y'know, you could just unf**k ATMs since nobody complained about them to begin with. It's absolutely ridiculous that passive LRMers (who the nerf is clearly targeted at) are just replacing Artemis with MORE MISSILE TUBES, yet ATMs take it up the pooper with no recourse. Fix this please. And no, 10% extra velocity does NOT make up for a decreased lock speed, worse tracking, 60%+ reduced lock area, and dead weight from a 66% nerfed piece of equipment.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 21 August 2018 - 11:58 PM.

[El Bandito]

For the option of removing Artemis from ATMs, well, it is inbuilt, meaning you cannot separate em. Instead ask for ATM buffs.

Also, ATMs technically should not be getting boosts from Artemis upgrade since it is supposed to be inbuilt, but was actually getting additional undeserved accuracy and tracking boosts when people enabled Artemis option at 0 weight/slot cost on ATM mech--same as SSRMs. PGI closed that exploit, for good or ill.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 August 2018 - 11:46 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

El Bandito, on 21 August 2018 - 11:43 PM, said:

For the option of removing Artemis from ATMs, well, it is inbuilt, meaning you cannot separate em.

Also, ATMs technically should not be getting boosts from Artemis upgrade since it is supposed to be inbuilt, but was actually getting additional undeserved accuracy and tracking boosts when people enabled Artemis option at 0 weight/slot cost on ATM mech--same as SSRMs. PGI closed that exploit, for good or ill.

Can confirm. ATMS suck pretty bad now.

[El Bandito]

Jackal Noble, on 21 August 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

Can confirm. ATMS suck pretty bad now.

It sucks that entire weapon group is now craptastic, though many players are probably relieved that guided missiles took a kick in the knees.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 August 2018 - 11:47 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

I mean I'm all for the artemis system that has been borked all this time getting fixed correctly, and thought the patch notes made sense. But to believe that it wasn't possible all this time and then all of a sudden ta-da? nope.
also in case I didn't say it before, ATMs suck pretty bad now.

[Hiten Bongz]

El Bandito, on 21 August 2018 - 11:43 PM, said:

For the option of removing Artemis from ATMs, well, it is inbuilt, meaning you cannot separate em. Instead ask for ATM buffs.

Also, ATMs technically should not be getting boosts from Artemis upgrade since it is supposed to be inbuilt, but was actually getting additional undeserved accuracy and tracking boosts when people enabled Artemis option at 0 weight/slot cost on ATM mech--same as SSRMs. PGI closed that exploit, for good or ill.

I have been asking for ATM buffs.

What did I get...ATM nerfs instead. GG, PGI, GG.

I know ATMs weren't supposed to get EXTRA, STACKING buffs from adding Artemis (added an edit to OP for clarification of this). I am fine about the loophole being closed (even though this also affects Streaks negatively - but that's a different discussion). I am not fine about the base launchers themselves getting nerfed - which they are, because there is still the baked-in and unremovable Artemis being negatively affected by these changes.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 22 August 2018 - 12:01 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Further, what about MRMs and RLs? They get off scot free, as Artemis still works for those.

I say that knowing that they are not lock systems but they should not benefit from Artemis either.

To say that MRMs aren’t fairly endemic would be false

Edited by Jackal Noble, 22 August 2018 - 12:08 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Also, I could be wrong on that but I’m not where I can test it atm

[Thorqemada]

I have the feeling that ATMs are pretty strong in their "Usability Window" and i would argue they are already the best of all Missiles maybe aside of SSRM for specific Light Hunter Mechs.

[Hiten Bongz]

Thorqemada, on 22 August 2018 - 12:55 AM, said:

I have the feeling that ATMs are pretty strong

Thorqemada, on 22 August 2018 - 12:48 AM, said:

Yeah, well, i never run Clan Mechs

Thanks for your input, we will make sure to take the feeling of an IS-only player with no experience in the weapon system being discussed very seriously.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 22 August 2018 - 02:46 AM.

[sharknoise]

It's like PGI simply wants to keep the same piece of code for all guided missiles. So when they prepare a tweak for LRMs, they also invent reasons why ATMs and SSRMs need to be changed the same way.

[Battlemaster56]

Personally ATM right now need a buff on it lock time, and usabilty in 500m (2 damage range) and it long range damage so it encourages more than lock srm nuke that it is now.

[Thorqemada]

Hiten Bongz, on 22 August 2018 - 02:45 AM, said:

Thanks for your input, we will make sure to take the feeling of an IS-only player with no experience in the weapon system being discussed very seriously.

Oh, i watch Matches when i have been shot dead as well as i receive ATM Damage - if you can not handle ATMs well improve your skill instead of shedding Clan Crocodile Tears!

Edited by Thorqemada, 22 August 2018 - 02:57 AM.

[Hiten Bongz]

Thorqemada, on 22 August 2018 - 02:56 AM, said:

Oh, i watch Matches
i receive ATM Damage
improve your skill

Stop trying to derail this thread. You expect anyone to take this seriously? Really? You have NO experience even using the weapon system being discussed and you feel you need to chime in about how I need to improve my skill if I can't use them properly.

LMFAO.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

what exactly are you asking for? The stats of ATM launchers remain untouched. Tracking strength and spread are just a value. The fact that Artemis is considered built-in is a lore statement refelcted by the values of the MWO ingame weaponssystem. Nothing more.

[UnofficialOperator]

C bills refund!!!

[Gen Lee]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 22 August 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

what exactly are you asking for? The stats of ATM launchers remain untouched. Tracking strength and spread are just a value. The fact that Artemis is considered built-in is a lore statement refelcted by the values of the MWO ingame weaponssystem. Nothing more.

The problem is that there is only one lock-on mechanism, and three very different missile types that rely on it, including one with built-in Artemis properties. If you mess with the targeting cone for one weapon, it affects the ability for people to lock onto agile lights with Streaks. If you completely remove two out of the three bonuses applied by Artemis (quicker lock-on, better missile tracking), which ATMs have built in, as well as nerf the third Artemis bonus (missile spread) twice in less than a year, you're going to cause some serious problems.

It's too late for PGI to create three different locking mechanism (one for each of the three types of locked-on missiles), so maybe it's time to give ATMs some other sort of buffs. I'd vote for giving ATMs a much higher velocity than LRMs and Streaks, or enough health per missile so that AMS wouldn't be able to destroy as many of the missiles. Give the LRMs the low health of ATMs instead, since we keep hearing about how LRMs are just overwhelming in FP.

All I know is something needs to be done, because at this rate, PGI will nerf missiles until none of them are worth taking. The last missile system to die will be LRMs because they are so easy to use from a long distance, which is what you'll need to use them now that they've essentially removed almost the entire targeting cone for missiles. It would be nice if they would allow for a larger cone for ATMs and Streaks than LRMs, but we only have that one locking mechanism. Looks like PGI hit a wall and instead of making proper fixes, they are taking the easy way out. Hell, we'd may as well just remove all the missiles that lock on at this rate, seeing as PGI doesn't seem to know what they are doing, and despite what they say, are absolutely not interested in community feedback and advice that is based on actual gameplay experience.

[Daurock]

Has anyone thought that... maybe, just maybe the loophole did need fixing, but that the "Artemis Lock time" should have been the one kept instead? Since the bug was already being exploited to the point of more the "norm" than the exception, maybe it would have made more sense to make the not just the de-facto norm, but the actual norm?

If standard LRMs still needed a nerf after that lock and tracking buff, they could have further increased spread from where they were, making them even more sand-blasty, but with more tracking and easier-locking.

[El Bandito]

Jackal Noble, on 22 August 2018 - 12:06 AM, said:

Further, what about MRMs and RLs? They get off scot free, as Artemis still works for those.

I say that knowing that they are not lock systems but they should not benefit from Artemis either.

To say that MRMs aren’t fairly endemic would be false

I tested it. Artemis doesn't work with MRMs.

[Khobai]

ATMs shouldnt have a zero damage deadzone

they should do at least half damage from 0-120m

its still dumb that LRMs do more damage than ATMs under 120m.