144 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Asym, on 24 August 2018 - 04:27 AM, said:

If that is the case, what is the point of having a skill tree that allows for increased efficiency of those systems???

the point of the skill tree is to rob you of cbills for the same things you used to get for free

it has no other purpose than that

normally the purpose of a skill tree is to force tough choices on players and promote rolewarfare since no one player can do everything. but this skill tree fails to do that because all the skill choices are obvious. for that reason it ends up just being a cbill tax on players rather than adding any real depth to the game.

essentially we as players would be better off without the skill tree and just going back to the old skill system... because the skill tree does literally nothing for us.

Edited by Khobai, 24 August 2018 - 04:42 AM.

[Kanil]

Khobai, on 24 August 2018 - 04:35 AM, said:

the point of the skill tree is to rob you of cbills for the same things you used to get for free

Buying two other variants of a chassis you don't like is free? Nobody ever told me that...

[Khobai]

Kanil, on 24 August 2018 - 04:42 AM, said:

Buying two other variants of a chassis you don't like is free? Nobody ever told me that...

You could always sell the mechs afterwards to get half the cbills back.

You could always swap modules from mech to mech and save cbills that way too.

But there are no such refunds under the new system. And it ultimately costs you more cbills in the long run. That was PGI's entire reason for implementing it.

The point is the current "skill tree", if you can call it that, is just a far more complicated version of the old system, which was also a tax, but at least it was simplistic and straightforward about it.

If there were actual meaningful choices in the skill tree it might be different. But right now theres no reason to put points in anything besides weapons, survivability, and operations. It adds zero depth to the game. And a whole lot of unnecessary clicking. On top of being a tax.

Besides they couldve just removed the 3 mech requirement and still kept the old skill system. And that wouldve been better than this travesty we have now where I have to click like 100 times to skill up a mech.

Edited by Khobai, 24 August 2018 - 05:07 AM.

[Kanil]

Khobai, on 24 August 2018 - 04:47 AM, said:

You could always sell the mechs afterwards to get half the cbills back.

You could always swap modules from mech to mech.

But there are no such refunds under the new system. It ultimately costs you more cbills.

Given that I can master 3+ 'mechs under the current system for the price of mastering one clan heavy/assault in the old system, I'd have to sell then rebuy and remaster a lot of 'mechs before the new system somehow costs less than the old one. This also assumes that I module swap every single time, if I don't want to do that, suddenly mastery becomes like 6-10 times more expensive in the old system.

Nevermind the fact that I can now master the one variant I like without having to play the other garbage. Figuring out a way to basic two more Cyclops (or even worse, two more Thanatos) when all I really want out of the chassis is a pair of HGauss isn't really my idea of fun.

[x Deathstrike x]

Jack Dawes, on 23 August 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

Do you play lights? If you do, do you wait until a larger mech is engaged before emptying into his back? If so, how are you less cowardly? Just curious.

Yes I play lights. And killing assaults from behind is one of the primary tasks of them if they can pull it off.
If you kill 100tons with 20tons you have made extremly good trade for your team even if you die quickly afterwards.
And killing an assault from behind actually requires much more skill than shooting randomly popping up blips indirectly.

You have to:

• know the map to actually get behind enemy lines without getting killed.
  
• scout a worthy target and know its limitations (e.g. LRMs, little torso yaw)
  
• have situational awareness that allows you to decide if its worth the risk to get behind
  
• know how to get close enough without being spotted.
  
• stay behind the enemy without him being able to target you and make his teammates aware of you
  
• get away without taking damage

Killing an assault from behind is not something that is possible in every game.

Most of the time it works as a great distraction though when half the team runs after you and gives your team time to kill those that remain.

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 24 August 2018 - 08:38 AM.

[MischiefSC]

I'll be honest on the Skill Tree -

I like it in practice and concept. However I used to play several alts, now I don't. Specifically because grinding skill tree for a mech is a long, slow, painful PITA because on my main character I could skill up another 100+ mechs with my banked skill points. My focus is on playing, not grinding.

I can't stress enough the value of this. If I had to still 'grind' in MWO I wouldn't play it. Not at all. I want to focus on playing, not grinding. I still 'grind'. For example this month I'm working on sucking less in Lights. I haven't played them often at all in years and am terrible in them and need the practice. However that's a grinding I'm choosing. If I had to grind just to play a new mech without being at a significant disadvantage I don't do it. I play something else.

In some F2P games the grind is the game. That's not MWO. The mech lab is complex, buying mechs and gear is hugely expensive as it is. It doesn't need a grind of any real sort for skills.

[Stinger554]

MischiefSC, on 24 August 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

In some F2P games the grind is the game. That's not MWO. The mech lab is complex, buying mechs and gear is hugely expensive as it is. It doesn't need a grind of any real sort for skills.

This. Though imo the XP cost is fine but no reason to also require c-bills.

[Quxudica]

brroleg, on 22 August 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

Game lost weapons diversity. Game became less fun. PGI fix this.

The only people that didn't see this comming, weren't paying attention. Lock-on weapons have received by far the most nerfs and buffs of any weapons in the game since the start. The weapons, particularly LRMs, are simply broken and always have been. With layer after layer after layer of bandaids slapped on top of them. The only way these would ever hope to be fixed is with a ground-up rebuild of the entire mechanic and that's never going to happen.

So just sit tight, eventually the wheel will turn and they will be broken in the opposite direction again for a time before it swings back the other way again.

[Maulkrve]

Honestly I'm not noticing a difference, did over 500dmg last time I used my Adder ATM build, after patch *shrug*

[Asym]

Khobai, on 24 August 2018 - 04:35 AM, said:

the point of the skill tree is to rob you of cbills for the same things you used to get for free

it has no other purpose than that

normally the purpose of a skill tree is to force tough choices on players and promote rolewarfare since no one player can do everything. but this skill tree fails to do that because all the skill choices are obvious. for that reason it ends up just being a cbill tax on players rather than adding any real depth to the game.

essentially we as players would be better off without the skill tree and just going back to the old skill system... because the skill tree does literally nothing for us.

I agree and that begs to ask the question: why isn't PGI listening to players that have very good ideas???

This makes no sense. I find it very hard to believe they have some serious professional talent in the player pool and yet, simply don't ask for help many would gladly give on just about any topic there is.....

[panzer1b]

Eisenhorne, on 22 August 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

Go for it, 4x LBX10 is better anyway. But by all means, keep blaming the HGR boogyman for your losses.

Actually 4 LBX-10 is trash outside of brawl ranges, while the HGR can still be a threat up to ~450m with range skills. That and the LBX isnt pinpoint, sure you deal loads of damage, but unless the target is literally in your face (where everything is pinpoint even SRMs), that damage is just annoying and not lethal.

Im not saying dual HGR necessarily needs to get nerfbatted into oblivion, but i do believe that its just too versatile right now, and even 1 HGR is still very deadly when paired with the correct secondary weapons, specifically MPLs on a mobile chassis, just wrecks entire teams so fast from all the PPFLD (IS pulses with max duration skills may as well be hitscan PPFLD, since the burn time is non-existent, and the HGR is heat-free 25 PPFLD which may as well be hitscan at 200m where its damage is maxed out).

Only thing keeping HGRs in check is clam mid range vomit, and since PGI seems dead set on nerfing all the clam lasers (which isnt really warranted imo, like 2-3 mechs can truly take full advantage of the gauss/laser vomit playstyle and not die due to bad geometry), its likely gonna be heavy gauss dominating everyone (the current meta already favors short-mid range on all but a few maps, so having all that clam alfa strike at a long range really isnt as big a deal as people make it out to be).

Edited by panzer1b, 25 August 2018 - 07:20 AM.

[JediPanther]

Bennesto, on 25 August 2018 - 04:17 AM, said:

If a light 'Mech has the time to work his way into the Missleboats back in the first place then the Missleboat totally deserves to die a lonesome death.

As some one who plays both lights and cat lrms I have conflicts on how to agree or disagree with this on so many levels. On the light side you have to work your butt off to get close enough to the lrm-er without the enemy noticing and gawnking you unless you're one of those er ll or er med builds. Most lights I play are short range dps builds so knowing how to get a good attack vector and get within range to do damage or get a kill is 80% of my match. You also need enough time to damage/kill your target without the enemy responding fast enough to you so you can escape and then repeat the process.

Lrm side you should have full sensors minus the ecm nodes for most mechs giving you seismic sensor and sensor range additional to the usually lrm junk to counter ecm. The c/bap,tag,uav etc. Most the catapults have lasers so there is your defensive weapons right there. Ideally you wouldn't be 'hiding' or at the back of the team but some where on second line in group of them.

Most my actual kills with the catapults comes from the lasers as I either have to fend off a light or an enemy mech is within laser range. I run 55 points to max the range and cool down so I will often fire lasers at a target just to see if they are between optimal range or the shown range of the laser. Knowing how lights fight and their most common tactics means I can usually hold my own against one or two of them long enough to target one and get a close by team mate to help. I won't always fend it off but I can put up a fight trying to break those legs.

[Davegt27]

I spent some time yesterday removing streaks and bap off a lot of my Mechs

it is what it is they where marginally effective unless they where boated
they did provide a degree of deterrence because of the shock and awe factor

I will leave them on my Streak TW because of nostalgia
and a few others because I haven't figured out what to do with the Mechs

I did have a type of mech I considered neat I called it tri pwr
they had lasers LRMs and streaks (sort of a different animal)

anyways time to move on
GLHF

[FireStoat]

The skill tree is the biggest reason why I rarely play this game now. 91 skill points for someone not running premium time = 45-55 matches to fully skill assuming you take Losses into consideration with Quick Drops where you only have marginal control in securing a win with 11 other random players on your team. You can clear about 3.5 drops per hour assuming you are restricted to using the same mech and having to wait after a death. So we are talking about 13-16 full hours of play time, sitting at the keyboard, to master a single mech.

In the face of other games such as league of legends or the like, someone please tell me how that is a fun thing to do after the 3rd or 4th mech. People wonder why new players are reluctant to get into this game and stay in? There you go.

[NUMBERZero1032]

Bennesto, on 25 August 2018 - 04:17 AM, said:

If a light 'Mech has the time to work his way into the Missleboats back in the first place then the Missleboat totally deserves to die a lonesome death.

LRM'S HAVE BROUGHT THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE TO THE GAME.
https://clips.twitch...abiPeoplesChamp

THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT.

[FireStoat]

NUMBERZero1032, on 25 August 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

LRM'S HAVE BROUGHT THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE TO THE GAME.
https://clips.twitch...abiPeoplesChamp

THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT.

Well, in that pilot's defense I'd like to point out that Spirit Bear owners everywhere lost their ability to brawl with the Civil War patch. So it's quite possible that guy was just trolling and giving the middle finger to the world.

[NUMBERZero1032]

FireStoat, on 25 August 2018 - 04:27 PM, said:

Well, in that pilot's defense I'd like to point out that Spirit Bear owners everywhere lost their ability to brawl with the Civil War patch. So it's quite possible that guy was just trolling and giving the middle finger to the world.

He was flanking into Zimbabwe even. That's not a middle fingering pilot. That is a "kick me" sign. Also you can look at his Jarl's List

[S O L A I S]

Requiemking, on 22 August 2018 - 10:30 PM, said:

Nope, not at all. Artemis has lost the only upgrades that made it worth taking, resulting in mass nerfing of ATMs and Streaks, all apparently to make indirect mass LRM spamming less viable, only to do just the opposite.

Yeah no.

Streaks are not supposed to benefit from Artemis but did so not feeling bad about an exploit being nerfed.

ATM's as stated by Chris on another forum will be effected but it needs to be clarified if that means equipping arti on in the past boosted lock time as it did streaks. Either way it's 'built in' so that weapon can be adjusted and go by it's weapons stats which is fair.

Not sure about the ATM's because they're garbage anyway and I don't use them, but streaks are fine and completely usable/effective. The lock on angle nerf was probably not far enough, and lock on times are not that bad with the change.

So no, there is no mass nerf and yes saying it's been removed from the game is absurd.

[S O L A I S]

Mystere, on 23 August 2018 - 03:38 AM, said:

The anti-LRM crowd seems to be so blinded by their hatred of the weapon they are unable to see this.

What if the guy he responded to isn't anti-lrm and could be seen live lurming the b33f and his boys to death on stream today!!!

What if that same guy is also running streak Bushies all week and Crows, since the CW event ended and is having very little trouble using the weapon at all?

Maybe just maybe there are some folks out there using the weapons after the nerfs who don't find it at all difficult to work with.

[JC Daxion]

step 1: unlock arms

Step 2: Follow brawlers and lob missiles over their heads

Step 3: Profit