144 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

S O L A I S, on 25 August 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

What if the guy he responded to isn't anti-lrm and could be seen live lurming the b33f and his boys to death on stream today!!!

What if that same guy is also running streak Bushies all week and Crows, since the CW event ended and is having very little trouble using the weapon at all?

Maybe just maybe there are some folks out there using the weapons after the nerfs who don't find it at all difficult to work with.

Who said he and I were referring to you?

Also, "having very little trouble after the patch" <> "patch dong the opposite of what was being called for".

JC Daxion, on 25 August 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

step 1: unlock arms

Step 2: Follow brawlers and lob missiles over their heads

Step 3: Profit

In a somewhat related note, I wish PGI had separated the controls for free look from torso twist.

[Khobai]

S O L A I S, on 25 August 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

Yeah no.

Streaks are not supposed to benefit from Artemis but did so not feeling bad about an exploit being nerfed.

I disagree. Streaks are supposed to get a better benefit than Artemis already built-in.

Streaks should get the lock-on time reduction without having to take artemis. Because streaks have the most sophisticated missile tracking system ever created. In tabletop its far superior to artemis. So MWO streak lockon time should at least be equal to LRM lockon time with artemis, if not superior.

It wasnt an exploit, its simply how streaks shouldve always been... now streaks are weaker for no good reason. They werent a particularly strong weapon to begin with so nerfing them made no sense.


All the LRM/ATM/Streak/Artemis nerfs should be reversed. They were completely unnecessary.

Edited by Khobai, 24 September 2018 - 04:52 PM.

[Ensaine]

First.... I only have ever had one LRM boat in my stable....back in the old days, it was the Stalker LRM60+ lasers......

Now, it's the Super Nova LRM 80 with 4x mPulse lasers.

My preferred play style is up close, big boom, or laser burn to a crisp. So, I LRM for fun, and seldom.

The thing I want to address, however, is taking any LRM boat that did 1k damage in a match, and saying it did NOT contribute, is heresy. Not sharing armor, not good at all, but doing 1k and not getting kills is fine.

I'm not one of the meta math junkies, but, the game like any other is based on total hit points, objectives aside.
If a team drops with say 10k total worth of points to overcome (fictional number), all those mechs with paint scratched, yellowed and orange armor points, is ALL damage someone else doesn't have to do. The brawlers and killers have less armor to chew through.

If the LRM'er has some skill, you can usually get into range to brawl with some pretty messed up opponents, with arms/torso's a good %'age of being nuked already.

Main point is, a good LRM score DID contribute. Against that fictional 10k total points, he did 10% himself.

And there are some 'buts' ......

But, any LRM'er who does less than IMO 800-900 points per match are not contributing well, as their capabilities allow for better.

But, any LRM'er who today is hanging WAY back simply doesn't know what they're doing, and yes a light should and usually does find him fast, and deletes him.

But, any LRM boat with no fairly serious back up weapons is also not contributing as much, because he'll be the first one on the Need Help boat when a Piranha gets on his butt, and, in QP, half the team will pull off the line to 'help'. And there's Out of Ammo.. what then? Like the video above.....??? Walk, walk, while getting killed, firing your pew pew twice = dead.......

So, boat away. Get as many tubes as you can. Hell, strap a launcher to your a$$... just have some other means to defend yourself. Plan on hitting 1k damage average, or you should really try a different mech.

Don't hang back, but don't block the direct fire guys.

Hit that average 1k damage, and don't believe the people who say you didn't contribute. Sure, a 400 damage guy got 3 kills. But who chewed them up before he got there......??? That center torso didn't injure itself. Instead of 100 points of armor, the killer had to go through say 80 instead......less if target is now being focused, less if you're still eating his babies.

The killers had 1000 less total 'points' to chew through........you did contribute !

[Commando522]

Streaks are utterly broken and PGI needs to fix them.

Even with Counter ECM, Active Probe, a Targeting Computer and everything else I can think of it still takes a ******* hour to lock a light.

Has PGI forgotten that Streaks were specifically created to KILL light mechs? I can understand it being difficult if you DONT have things like Counter ECM but come the hell on.

[dario03]

Commando522, on 24 September 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

Streaks are utterly broken and PGI needs to fix them.

Even with Counter ECM, Active Probe, a Targeting Computer and everything else I can think of it still takes a ******* hour to lock a light.

Has PGI forgotten that Streaks were specifically created to KILL light mechs? I can understand it being difficult if you DONT have things like Counter ECM but come the hell on.

Where is that said?

[Commando522]

dario03, on 24 September 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

Where is that said?

It's no coincidence that nearly every time a SRM is found on a stock Assault or Heavy that it's a streak or that they're always mentioned as being part of the arsenal specifically to ward off light mech ambushers in mech descriptions on sarna.

Edited by Commando522, 24 September 2018 - 06:14 PM.

[Gen Lee]

Commando522, on 24 September 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

Streaks are utterly broken and PGI needs to fix them.

Even with Counter ECM, Active Probe, a Targeting Computer and everything else I can think of it still takes a ******* hour to lock a light.

Has PGI forgotten that Streaks were specifically created to KILL light mechs? I can understand it being difficult if you DONT have things like Counter ECM but come the hell on.

Like I said in the game we were in together earlier today, Targeting Computers have no effect on missile locks, or missiles at all. Remove the TC unless you are using lasers, ACs/UACs, some type of PPC, and have an extra ton and one free slot where you can't use another heatsink or ton of ammo. TC isn't worth the targeting data alone, either.

You'd be better off using TAG/Light TAG and BAP/CAP/Light CAP to get locks on lights for Streaks. Using just ECM, you'd have to put it in Counter mode to nullify their ECM's effects, and since ECM overrides your own Active Probe, use ECM and TAG/Light TAG together.

Edited by Gen Lee, 24 September 2018 - 06:35 PM.

[dario03]

Commando522, on 24 September 2018 - 06:13 PM, said:

It's no coincidence that nearly every time a SRM is found on a stock Assault or Heavy that it's a streak or that they're always mentioned as being part of the arsenal specifically to ward off light mech ambushers in mech descriptions on sarna.

Which mechs have that listed? I just checked the sarna pages for all of the MWO assaults and none of the ones carrying streaks mention lights as the reason.
The sarna description for streaks also doesn't mention being made specifically to fight lights. It actually sounds like they should often times barely fire against lights since it is a ammo conserving system and lights are harder to hit.

Edited by dario03, 24 September 2018 - 09:47 PM.

[Chrome Magnus]

x Deathstrike x, on 22 August 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

The tears of LRM bi... users are so sweet.
LRMs have been buffed twice in the last patches and now a correction has been made to reduce the rampant spread of LRMs. I guess fighting with actually having LoS to your enemy is simply too much for some people.

*Sip*
Ah.... these tears... so delicious.

ahh the battle cry of those who couldn't cope with half competent LRM pilots or were frustrated by someone LRMing them from nowhere without even realizing the pilot had LOS on them...

Still doing fine with the only dedicated LRM mech I've tried post nerf. However they are now even further behind the uber easy point n click weapons available to those who can't think far enough ahead to determine if their LRM volley would hit.

[D__M__Z]

Mr. Lethewyvern from reddit asked me to re-post this to this thread.


I play MWO only for like ~70 hours.
Bought Mad Dog yesterday, leveled 92 skill points in one evening.
The most fun and interesting Mech I have.
This is the best result I ever had in this game. I hold locks for myself, helping with a C-Light TAG. Have some ERSML's as a backup when things become close and personal.

I'm absolutely stunned with ATM perfomance and the way they work. Very interesting tool with a lot of Pros and Cons.

I have Deathstrike, KIT FOX, SRM Bushwacker, Laservomit Hellbringer, Pirates Bane and non of them perform better in my hands than this ATM Mad Dog.

If I don't die stupidly in the beginning of the match (like a niewb I am) I constantly have 900+ damage in the victory matches.

This thing do wonders for me and I'm completely stunned by it's performance.

But yeah... early death and AMS kinda counters all positive sides of ATMS

[Damnedtroll]

I have 1 dedicated lrm boat, and still my catapult have 2 ssrm2 and 2 medpulses for close combat and backup to the 2 lrm15. I use my lrm15 to do damage mainly below 400m, above that it's just to piss off the other team to close range. Line of sight and aggressive playing make my Catapult dangerous staying afar do bad results.. I just carry around 1000 missile for my lrm and it's plenty for quickplay and I don't use it for faction.

Edited by Damnedtroll, 25 September 2018 - 04:06 AM.

[Daurock]

The only missile weapons that are effectively awful are the streaks right now, IMO. As a weapon often mentioned by light players as "Something your assault should spend a few tons on if you're concerned about light mechs," It does a terrible job of actually countering lights, due to the new lock mechanics. With the lengthened lock times, and much tighter cone, it is now simpler just to run non-Artemis missiles, and shotgun them down, removing them as a viable weapon completely now.

However, I'm not sure exactly what the right solution is, due to the "Global" lock criteria. (I.E. they can't buff streaks specifically lest some enterprising LRM-Boat stick in a single streak launcher in his build, and gain the lock-bonus for all his LRMs) Maybe they can bake in some of the former "Lock Bonus" into some of the sensor tree skills, or maybe they can buff the launchers in other ways.


On to LRMs - they're mostly OK at the moment, imo. My current favorite is oddly enough, a hunchback 2c, running a LRM60+Narc. Narc a guy at 300-400m, proceed to blast them into pieces from behind a ridge. Personally, i don't take LRMs on anything bigger than a NovaCat, but to each their own. As for ATMs could use a little bit of a Velocity boost, IMO , both to differentiate them from LRMs, and to blow through AMS a little better, but that's not as big a problem as the streak problem, imo.

[Eisenhorne]

Daurock, on 25 September 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

The only missile weapons that are effectively awful are the streaks right now, IMO. As a weapon often mentioned by light players as "Something your assault should spend a few tons on if you're concerned about light mechs,"

Just want to respond to this... no assault player who is any good should ever take streaks for any reason. They are terrible weapons for assault mechs, because the main purpose of assault mechs is to take down heavily armored enemy mechs, against which streaks are useless. You need to either be good at aiming with the weapons you have to kill lights (ballistics and pulse lasers make short work of lights with good aim) or relying on teammates to fill that role.

Streaks have always been a pretty niche weapon, and now they're even moreso. They should really only be used on dedicated light hunting mechs, and even then probably only on clan mechs, since clan streaks have a huge range advantage over IS mechs.

They're still very handy at killing Piranhas, or at least forcing them to disengage. They can also deal with Assassins reasonably well, something clan mechs generally have issues with, since laservomit isn't great at dealing with them. (good luck killing an ASN-21 with a standard HLL/ERML HBR!)

I probably would suggest never bringing streaks to quick play, since they're so situational. They're a FP weapon mostly.

[Daurock]

Eisenhorne, on 25 September 2018 - 07:34 AM, said:

Just want to respond to this... no assault player who is any good should ever take streaks for any reason. They are terrible weapons for assault mechs, because the main purpose of assault mechs is to take down heavily armored enemy mechs, against which streaks are useless. You need to either be good at aiming with the weapons you have to kill lights (ballistics and pulse lasers make short work of lights with good aim) or relying on teammates to fill that role.

I actually agree with this. I will note though, that it is a pretty common red herring, (Usually in one of those Lights vs. Assaults threads) which is kind of disingenuous, especially with the changes to streaks.

With the changes though, even with a "light hunter " dedicated mech, (Streak-Crow, Streak-Adder, etc) streaks are now flatly inferior when compared to other options. My Light Hunter Streak Crow has been changed over to a Light Hunter BoomCrow, (LBX20, 3x SRM-6) and probably will be there for the foreseeable future. It's far more punishing to larger mechs, and more deadly to lights now too.

[LordBraxton]

I used LRMs on some mixed builds a year ago before the buffs the baddies complained about.

Why dont they revert LRMs to how they were one year ago? Everyone said they were useless then but they were fun to use.

[MischiefSC]

Eisenhorne, on 25 September 2018 - 07:34 AM, said:

Just want to respond to this... no assault player who is any good should ever take streaks for any reason. They are terrible weapons for assault mechs, because the main purpose of assault mechs is to take down heavily armored enemy mechs, against which streaks are useless. You need to either be good at aiming with the weapons you have to kill lights (ballistics and pulse lasers make short work of lights with good aim) or relying on teammates to fill that role.

Streaks have always been a pretty niche weapon, and now they're even moreso. They should really only be used on dedicated light hunting mechs, and even then probably only on clan mechs, since clan streaks have a huge range advantage over IS mechs.

They're still very handy at killing Piranhas, or at least forcing them to disengage. They can also deal with Assassins reasonably well, something clan mechs generally have issues with, since laservomit isn't great at dealing with them. (good luck killing an ASN-21 with a standard HLL/ERML HBR!)

I probably would suggest never bringing streaks to quick play, since they're so situational. They're a FP weapon mostly.

Dat Streak Huntsman.

Reasonably quick, jumpy, takes a lot of streaks, arm actuators. Also very sexy.

[Hiten Bongz]

Godmesser, on 25 September 2018 - 03:58 AM, said:

I play MWO only for like ~70 hours.

I'm absolutely stunned with ATM perfomance and the way they work.

70 hours? You are still playing against entire teams of newbies...most of those guys won't even know how ATMs work and will suicide rush right into the max damage zone. That kind of ignorance mostly disappears once you are ~T3/T2. Suddenly people know how to use cover properly and understand ECM mechanics at that point and lock-on missiles become much harder to use effectively. Not to say that they become worthless, but the last round of "nerf all the missile things" sure didn't do them any favors in the usability department.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 25 September 2018 - 03:10 PM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Tiy0s, on 22 August 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

Oh no! A weapon that originally required no skill now requires the brainpower of a fungus! What ever will the average potato do

Because laser spam, the most common weapon used takes the skill of a master. haha

[Mechwarrior1441491]

This game has been doing nothing but tread water with game balance and passing it off as content for years. How many times do they have to take steps back to work on weapons that were essentially where they should be.

[Cryzak]

Its hard to get lock maybe, more worried im about how effective AMS is against ATM. Maybe small boost to velocity and missile HP fix it. I know its niche weapon but use it to last day on mwo(if not nerfs!) .