215 replies to this topic

[Sereglach]

Now that we have the details, I'm glad to see that PGI and the community actually seem to be in agreement that this is the right direction to move in.

That said, I have a feeling a heat cap of 45 will probably be the happy medium to eventually make it to live, but I was personally thrilled with the heat cap of 40. It's worth noting that it's very easy to get 10% heat reduction, 10% heat cap, and 10% cooling rate out of the skill tree; and that's not even counting mech based quirks. Those will quickly turn a heat cap of 50 effectively close to -if not higher than- 60, while 45 will probably still keep the effective heat cap closer to 53-54 for those who invest in the improvements.

Oh, and for the love of all that is holy, do NOT budge on removing heat capacity from DHS . . . SHS are possible -in small values- as a way to make them unique, but NOT DHS.

Either way, I'm looking forward to testing it.

[Marius Evander]

Navid is the hellbringer graph showing hellbringer performing even better damage over time on PTS than live ?

[Navid A1]

Cadoazreal, on 23 August 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

Navid is the hellbringer graph showing hellbringer performing even better damage over time on PTS than live ?

Yes.

Thats the result of higher dissipation.... higher damage only comes after 50 seconds of absolutely non-stop firing... not even a millisecond wasted.
Lower cap means that your burst dps is lower.

Yeonne Greene, on 23 August 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

I think it might be useful for everybody else to see, thanks.

It might behoove us to also offer the inverse solution to PGI, AKA what value cDHS would need to be lowered to to match IS laser vomit output. My guess is that value lands with cDHS basically being unchanged from Live in dissipation (0.15 or 0.16). Like I said in the other thread, Clans need cap more than IS do, so that's where I'd place the deltas. IS get extra dissipation per sink, Clans get extra cap. Dissipation quirks for edge cases like Clan Lights.

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with where clan dissipation numbers are at right now.

IS heat sinks just need a push on their stats.

[cougurt]

Hiten Bongz, on 23 August 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

I'm not hung up on anything. MGs are hitscan weapons, so if theoretical DPS = 14, then your either doing 0 DPS (missing) or 14 DPS (hitting). There is no in-between, unless you have them grouped (and why would you do this, they put out no heat?).

what i'm saying is that the DPS is only relevant if you're able to commit to a target and unload on them for a bit, which isn't always a trivial thing to pull off.

Hiten Bongz, on 23 August 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

Level of exposure? Are you running solo right into the faces of entire fresh lances or something? Most MG boating PIR-1 with a functioning handful of brain cells waits around (likely doing a bit of scouting) until the remaining enemy mechs are damaged, limping, and/or cored out, then flanks up behind them while using their teammates as bait and unloads 14 DPS into their backs. Pop. Pop. Pop. Playing to the strength of the crit-tastic MGs and all that jazz.

by "exposure" i don't strictly mean going face to face with enemy mechs, but rather maintaining fire on them long enough to cause some damage. i don't see the issue with allowing piranhas to excel against damaged targets, as that's pretty much the whole point of machine guns. it's on you if you let them stay alive long enough to take advantage of such a situation.

[Navid A1]

Here is some comparisons to show that a boosts to IS heat sinks is warranted:

[Venatos]

you didnt fix the mobility overcorrection on the assaults?

Viktor has a better turnrate than a Blackjack now, this can not be intended?

EDIT: also no mention of shifting the heatdissipation towards internal heatsinks?
why do you make a PTS and then dont adress the most obvious and most mentioned issues on the following one?

while the 40 heatcap effected the top 2% of stupidly hot alphabuilds, 50 does absolutely nothing.... what are we supposed to test with a change that doesnt change anything?

pts2.1 just leaves me riddled with questions and unbelieve.....

Edited by Venatos, 23 August 2018 - 09:36 PM.

[FupDup]

Venatos, on 23 August 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

you didnt fix the mobility overcorrection on the assaults?

Viktor has a better turnrate than a Blackjack now, this can not be intended?

Sure it can be. Big robots bring in more money for PGI.

[NocturnalBeast]

I will play my 10 games to get the reward since it was decent enough, but I am not very interested in changes that will make the game less like BATTLETECH and more like a boring game where all the MECHS are the same.

[Arkansas6A]

Ugh. Why are they going piece meal on the mech mobility? They need to be looking at them all together. So they don't wind up with 85 ton mechs ice skating with grace and medium mechs derping into walls.

[LordNothing]

i still think 35 and get rid of ghost heat.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 August 2018 - 11:34 PM.

[Hiten Bongz]

Arkansas6A, on 23 August 2018 - 11:19 PM, said:

Ugh. Why are they going piece meal on the mech mobility? They need to be looking at them all together. So they don't wind up with 85 ton mechs ice skating with grace and medium mechs derping into walls.

Well, while some mechs might be in a "decent enough" state (and IDK because I'm not a spreadsheet aficionado, neither do I play ALL of them), there are definitely several that still haven't been appropriately mobility-buffed, for sure.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 23 August 2018 - 11:59 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

LordNothing, on 23 August 2018 - 11:34 PM, said:

i still think 35 and get rid of ghost heat.

Then I just stop using lasers and go all-in on ballistics and missiles.

[NUMBERZero1032]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 August 2018 - 07:53 PM, said:

Only within BT context. Realistically and intuitively, it makes absolutely no sense given that lasers and PPCs of similar ought to have similar power requirements.

Oooooo, do I hear energy draw PTS 2.0?

[Venatos]

you know, for mobility you would expect a graph to look like this:

I<Assault>
I <Heavy>
I <Medium>
I <Lights>
-----------------------------------> Turnrate

but for some reason in MWO it looks like this:
I<Assault >
I <Heavy >
I <Medium>
I <Lights>

sometimes i realy with i could do graphs... like for real....
edit: stupid thing isnt showing my spaces.... well, just look at their spreadsheet, its pretty obvious if you look over the turnrates of the mechs.

Edited by Venatos, 24 August 2018 - 03:12 AM.

[MechTech Dragoon]

40 was a good number for lights and mediums with the dissipation rate, and heavies and assaults were fine so long as they spread fire and mount proper heatsinks I wouldn't go past 42-44 as with skills your getting into an area where this will decrease TTK not increase it. As before, regular and heavy gauss and lbs will need a nerf with these changes. Add small recoil to regular gauss on both sides,(clan more) limit hvy gauss firing to one, increase lbx heat. Alternatively, add reticule shake during gauss charge, smaller recoils after the shot. This will imitate sniper rifles in other fps games.

[D V Devnull]

Everyone, is it just me, or does the Patch Size @ 875 MB seem a tad big? I hope they're still testing with Pre-August Weapons Config, or they've gone and changed an extra variable in the background that shouldn't have been messed with yet. It almost feels like PGI might be polluting their own data by accident.

~D. V. "Feeling like a lot of people are going to be thrown off..." Devnull

[tacorodwarrior]

This is a step in the right direction. Cannot wait to get home and try it. Now this will lead to the elimination of ghost heat, a reduction in heat of ballistic weapons but at the expense of lower ammo count. And all will be good with MWO. Ghost heat should never of been added, It should have been a heat cap for all mechs from the beginning, the added heat capacity of heat sinks was a bad move from day one.
I was on holiday for the last PTS so I cannot compare the 40 heat cap with the 50, but the idea of this new heat cap is to allow you to still do the big alpha strike but not allow you to do it again for maybe 20 - 40 seconds, however you can continue to fire smaller weapon groups effectively. Trust me I love the current set up for the HBR I will do easily 3k Damage in 3 of these and a Mad Dog in FP but I think this will make the game better.

No need to add screen shake to the Gauss or the LBX just reduce ammo count slightly. Same with Machine gun boats like PIR (not OP by the way) if they are over preforming just reduce the ammo count slightly. If a Ballistic weapon is over performing just reduce ammo count if it is under preforming just increase it and maybe the cool down if it also, Ballistic weapons should not be anywhere NEAR as hot as they are now. They need to be cooled significantly but reduce the ammo count per ton. If you are going to boat Ballistics, make them very good but the short ammo count will mean that the boat will not be as effective as the varied build same goes for missiles. Slight tweaks can be preformed with range adjustments.

Edited by tacorodwarrior, 24 August 2018 - 05:06 AM.

[Daurock]

I have to wonder.... With the cap at 50, are any of the alphas that they want to address actually going to go down compared to live?

I mean... The typical vomit HBR will (2xHLL, 4x ERML), and the typical Jag Vomit Build, (2xLPL, 6xERML) both should be able to fire a full alpha if one is taking the requisite skills in the tree. Even the boogeyman 94 point Deathstrike build should still be able to alpha if you take full heat containment, and a few heat gen skills in the weapons tree.

If the entire point of the PTS is to figure out how to bring down the more obnoxious Clan alphas, raising the cap all the way up to 50 isn't really going to accomplish that.

Edited by Daurock, 24 August 2018 - 05:44 AM.

[Sjorpha]

1. 50 is too high to really adress any relevant high alpha builds, you can basically use the same laservomit metabuilds as on the live server and with more sustained DPS. Metabuilds like the 2HLL, 4cERML Hellbringer is stronger on the PTS than it is live. That's not right.

2. Increasing dissipation equally to 2.0 for IS and Clan translates to an enormous buff to clan mechs because they can typically boat 24-27 cDHS while IS mechs are capped at 18-20. You need to make IS DHS a bit stronger than cDHS stronger to balance out this difference. You already got that feedback by lots of people in PTS 2.0 so why isn't it addressed?

A more sensible PTS 2.1 would have been:
- Heat cap to 45 (or leave at 40)
- cDHS dissipation down to 1.8 or 1.7

You also have a golden opportunity here to finally give SHS a niche, simply let SHS be the only heatsink type that increases the heat cap! That way you could have a real choice between boosted sustained DPS (with DHS) and boosted burst DPS (SHS)

It's nice that you are addressing agility but please make a proper graph of the agility between all mechs and make agility to weight progression sensible. If you have agility spikes on assaults that beats the agility on some mediums that isn't right and should be corrected.

It's fine to have different values for different mechs for flavour of course, but that should be differences within weight classes where one mech is better at twisting and another is better at accelerating and so forth. It shouldn't be so extreme as to make some mediums less agile than some assaults etc. That's just too inconsistent.

Edited by Sjorpha, 24 August 2018 - 06:16 AM.

[Jman5]

I'm unclear about Dissipation. Will it be 2.0 across the board like the last test, or are you tuning it back to what we have live?