79 replies to this topic

[timff8]

Hello everyone,

I'm a returning player who's been out for about a year. I wanted to learn how to actually fight this time. Up until now, i've largely played LRM boats, and the reason for that is that I find MWO combat to be, in general, very stressful. LRMs let me sit further back and make hopping attacks. I tend to use JJ-equipped mechs to pop up and launch.

But now I'm trying to actually learn, and it's very very hard. A big part of what I'm trying to get is how survival works in MWO as opposed to World of Tanks. In WoT, damage avoidance is a much bigger tactic. You trade shots, ideally not getting hit at all. What I'm learning a lot is that in MWO, except for at the very outset, generally you're not trying to avoid hits, you're managing the damage you WILL take, because mechs fight very differently for a variety of reasons. This has be stressful because I tend to take damage and freak the hell out because I can't reverse into cover like I can in WoT, and I get very scared. I lose a lot of fights because I try to run away instead of standing and fighting. My reflex to trade for free is something I'm having to get over and it's very hard.

Beyond that though is my total inability to brawl. I can't do it. I get very stressed out and generally just let someone kill me. And I'm realizing this part is two-fold: one because unlike in WoT there is absolutely no way to take zero damage in a trade. You will get hit, you will start to die. And that still scares me. But beyond that, I can't deal with the first-person camera. It's something that is hard when I'm at mid-to-long range, but up close I seriously cant' handle.

When I'm in close, and there's 6 mechs swirling around me, and half of them are shooting me simultaneously, and I can see, at best, 2 of them, I can't handle it. It's incredibly claustrophobic to me, and I can't deal well. I've tried using the third-person camera, and it's absolutely no help due to the angle it puts you at.

Is there any way to get past this? I really want to learn to like the game but it's so goddamn stressful. My totally inability to see is making fighitng nearly impossible. All I can assume is that people just get used to being blind and do their best. Please understand that that isnt' coming from a perspective of "this game sucks, WoT is great", but more from a "this game is genuinely stressful to play and it's physically taxing for me". I really want to like the game more but it's getting to the point where I dread starting because I know I'm going to be forced into a circle and mercilessly beat on by people I can't see until I die, slowly, inch by inch. It's low-key terrifying.

Edited by timff8, 28 August 2018 - 04:34 PM.

[MadHornet]

Like the great Adam Steiner from the BattleTech cartoon once said, "Information is ammunition". Knowing what the enemy has and where they are going takes the sharp edge of uncertainty out of the battle. Getting targeting information can tell you what the team has before you commit to a strategy or engagement. While this seems like common play, the information you get needs to be assessed.

Let's say you're a sniper 'mech and you find that there are several light 'mechs on the enemy team. From there you can gather that the enemy can counter you easily if you are spotted, so you can change position closer to the team.

Another example would be piloting an assault 'mech. You take into account that you are slow and easily flanked or outmaneuvered. Sticking with the team provides a buffer for the enemy to break through before they get to you, and that information you get from your team can help you position yourself to fire at them.

More complex situations can also follow from this. Predicting an enemy push can help you survive. The map can show you all available enemies you can target and the directions they are moving. If you see a group of enemies coming your way and you are in front, reverse to the lines of allies behind you before they round the corner or crest the hill.

This is the strategy part of the game at play, and makes it so much less stressful to play when you have a plan of action before the game heats up.

Edited by MadHornet, 28 August 2018 - 05:17 PM.

[RickySpanish]

First and foremost, what 'Mechs do you pilot? Half the battle is won in the Mechbay so if you have a suboptimal build on a 'Mech that's fallen behind the power curve no amount of smart decisions in game are going to help you.

Next, do you communicate with your team? After getting the Mechbay sorted your next most important task in combat is to know what areas you can safely move your 'Mech to, this changes as the match goes on obviously, and a key part is calling out enemy targets for your team mates to either avoid, or focus down. If you can get voice comms up and running, you are going to find managing the battle a lot easier, which neatly leads us to...

Brawling. See the thing about brawling is that it's actually rather a tough style of combat to execute well. If you brawl someone at the wrong moment, you will get wacked by the half dozen other players whose positions you were unaware of. Wacking people at close range is rather straight forward, but knowing when to commit is the tough part. I almost always play brawler 'Mechs, specifically the MAD IIC Scorch, which packs a hell of a short range punch and has a nice frontal profile, so at super long range it's a little more difficult to shred. With the Scorch and any slower brawler I tend to keep the Lights off my team mates and push late game.

Armour sharing is the reason that poptart 'Mech pilots with 900 damage and 4 kills still end up on the losing team. You need to keep in mind that, as you said, sometimes the objective in MWO is to actually be a target. It's better to have two slightly beat up 'Mechs than a pristine back line guy, with his buddy missing a torso or worse. Knowing when to take a hit for your team is quite important, and basically that boils down to not moving too far away from your lance or the front line.

Finally, as my wife interrupted me halfway through this post to remind me that we are supposed to be watching a movie; remember your ABTs - Always Be Twistin'. Spread that damage and learn to time your counter attacks by counting down the seconds left on your weapon's recharge. This is especially important in Solaris, but it definitely applies here as well.

Good luck, and have fun!

Edited by RickySpanish, 28 August 2018 - 05:23 PM.

[JediPanther]

I learned by being a lrm boat primarily then switched to a light mech with hit-and-run tactics. No matter what you do you will get shot in mwo. Being a lrm-er got me to learn about positioning, finding angles of attack, what people use for cover to avoid missiles which inturn forced me to find more ways to lrm them. When not to use the lrms (as many lrm users never learn) and switch to lasers forgetting about the missiles.

It sounds like you need a fast moving mech. As much as I like lights for you I'd say a fast medium would be best. You'll be able to move in and out of cover and fire weapons at enemies much easier than an assault slug or heavy mech. Shadow Hawks,Cicadas, and Griffins would be good in the 40-55 ton range.

You can also join a unit and do drops with them. A good unit can teach much more than any person can post here in a single thread.

Here's a few mechs and builds to look at. Most focus on mobility over fire power with 400m-500m range. The Shadow Hawk is my suggestion as it lets you choose from a variety of weapon types so you arn't stuck with 'just lasers' or 'just missiles.' It also has good speed,jump jets if you want and you can learn the protect-your-side-torso with it by going big ac on it.

SHD-2D2 Starter

CDA-3M ERmls

HBK-4J lrm10smls

[Nameless King]

I played many many many many many many matches, trying everything and learning the dos and donts. Figuer out what you like and play it till you can do it well or hate it and find something else. Lots of playstyles in this game.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Use the pirate key ® and always check for top right corner, bottom left corner and the minimap. Don't use the arrow on the ground that tells you where your legs point at, use the minimap that also has that arrow. But on the minimap you also see where your enemies are.

Use headphones, your ears are as valuable as your eyes to tell you what's going on.

Always keep moving and use your mech's movement when you aim. Sometimes it's easier to make a step foreward or backward than to point the crosshair exactly where you want to shoot. Moving your torso left and right helps you to see what's going on around you and it makes it harder for folks shooting at you to hit you. Use your JJs for fast turns and to be harder to hit.

Good hunting!

[Athom83]

I played the Highlander IIC C that was on trial. No joke. I didn't really understand how to play until I sat in that thing for a long while.

[YueFei]

timff8, on 28 August 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

When I'm in close, and there's 6 mechs swirling around me, and half of them are shooting me simultaneously, and I can see, at best, 2 of them, I can't handle it. It's incredibly claustrophobic to me, and I can't deal well. I've tried using the third-person camera, and it's absolutely no help due to the angle it puts you at.

You actually almost never want to be in this kind of situation. If you do, it's probably a mistake. You don't want to expose in such a way that lets multiple enemies shoot at you from multiple angles. First of all, you're allowing yourself to get focus-fired. Secondly, with enemies at different angles it is impossible to shield properly against all of them at the same time, at some point your rear will show to somebody.

Even if your intention is to break from cover and full-on engage without cover, try not to wade so deep into the midst of the enemy.

Quote

Is there any way to get past this? I really want to learn to like the game but it's so goddamn stressful. My totally inability to see is making fighitng nearly impossible. All I can assume is that people just get used to being blind and do their best. Please understand that that isnt' coming from a perspective of "this game sucks, WoT is great", but more from a "this game is genuinely stressful to play and it's physically taxing for me". I really want to like the game more but it's getting to the point where I dread starting because I know I'm going to be forced into a circle and mercilessly beat on by people I can't see until I die, slowly, inch by inch. It's low-key terrifying.

Try going into some private matches with friends so you can get used to dealing with the visual effects of getting hit. Sometimes the bark is worse than the bite. The impacts might sound and look furious, but look at your own damage readout (and the hitpoint% for yourself) and learn to calmly assess how much damage you're actually taking.

The screen shake is 100% cosmetic, it doesn't cause your reticule to deviate, so you actually still have 100% control over where you aim.

The last bit of advice I have is to watch this video about perspective in FPS games:


The margins for time difference between who sees who first in MWO is even larger, since the mechs move more slowly relative to their sizes.

So when cornering, try not to hug the corner so tightly, this helps you see the enemy first and shoot first. Even if you both do 10% damage to each other, if you do it to his torso and he deals the damage to your shield arm, you've come out way ahead on that trade.

[timff8]

MadHornet, on 28 August 2018 - 05:16 PM, said:

Like the great Adam Steiner from the BattleTech cartoon once said, "Information is ammunition". Knowing what the enemy has and where they are going takes the sharp edge of uncertainty out of the battle. Getting targeting information can tell you what the team has before you commit to a strategy or engagement. While this seems like common play, the information you get needs to be assessed.

More complex situations can also follow from this. Predicting an enemy push can help you survive. The map can show you all available enemies you can target and the directions they are moving. If you see a group of enemies coming your way and you are in front, reverse to the lines of allies behind you before they round the corner or crest the hill.

This is the strategy part of the game at play, and makes it so much less stressful to play when you have a plan of action before the game heats up.

Well generally speaking I have a lot of frustration with info gathering because mechs' loadouts are so diverse, so seeing a mech doesnt' tell you much about what it's got. That and locks tend to last maybe a few seconds, so I often can't read a mech's stuff before I either fall back or my allies lose the lock, so I cant' see.

I'm trying to use the map more but it's so small and mechs get so close that it doesnt' help much. when I'm surrounded by eight guys the map is useless because we're so clumped. That and the map doesnt' name the mech, which really, REALLY should be a thing.

RickySpanish, on 28 August 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

First and foremost, what 'Mechs do you pilot?

Next, do you communicate with your team?

Brawling. See the thing about brawling is that it's actually rather a tough style of combat to execute well. If you brawl someone at the wrong moment, you will get wacked by the half dozen other players whose positions you were unaware of.

Finally, as my wife interrupted me halfway through this post to remind me that we are supposed to be watching a movie; remember your ABTs - Always Be Twistin'.

I have a Huntsman, a Nova, and 2 Kitfoxes. I'd really like to get a Summoner and do some laser vomit.

I actually dont' talk to people. I cant' hear my podcasts if I do, and also frankly I've been called slurs by enough twelve-year-olds to last a lifetime. I also dont' have any friends who play the game.

Yeah... just in general commitment is everything in this game so I can't do anything. I'm so afraid to commit because if I do and I do it wrong I'll be slowly, painfully eaten by the enemy team and my fat, slow mech is too unresponsive to save me.

Torso twisting honeslty makes the claustrophobia worse so I don't do it.

JediPanther, on 28 August 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

It sounds like you need a fast moving mech. As much as I like lights for you I'd say a fast medium would be best. You'll be able to move in and out of cover and fire weapons at enemies much easier than an assault slug or heavy mech. Shadow Hawks,Cicadas, and Griffins would be good in the 40-55 ton range.

Honestly I'm struggling a lot to do that on so many maps. I keep getting HPG manifold and I hate that brawler-centric shithole. I feel like most maps force you into a close-range firefight where there's not enough space.

[NUMBERZero1032]

TheB33f

[SuperMCDad]

The first mech I used out of the gate was the NCIX centurion, which I think was probably a good way to go. A nice tanky medium, that will teach you about torso twisting and positioning. Find an assault or heavy mech, and be their buddy. Follow them (but whatever you do, don't block them. Close, but not up their ar*e). Help amplify their damage by shooting what they shoot at.

I'm afraid if you want to get better, you may need to listen to the podcasts at other times. You need to listen if someone is drop calling. A communicative team is a gift from the mech gods. Don't ignore it.

[Ruccus]

timff8, on 28 August 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

When I'm in close, and there's 6 mechs swirling around me, and half of them are shooting me simultaneously, and I can see, at best, 2 of them, I can't handle it. It's incredibly claustrophobic to me, and I can't deal well. I've tried using the third-person camera, and it's absolutely no help due to the angle it puts you at.

Is there any way to get past this? I really want to learn to like the game but it's so goddamn stressful. My totally inability to see is making fighitng nearly impossible.

As previously mentioned, if you've got 6 enemies around you you've either overextended or it's the very end of a roll, so there's not much you can do other than try not to get in that situation.

My number one advice for players having troubles is to drop in a 50 to 55 ton, 81-90kph medium mech with a cool build and follow around an assault to act as his wingman. Fire at what he fires at, scare off light mechs that come to harass him. You're his extra firepower and light mech defense; just reposition yourself around him, don't block him from being able to maneuver, and help him kill things and stay alive. Your Huntsman would be perfect at this; maybe something like an LB10X for critting internals opened up by your assault friend, 4 or 5 medium lasers, and a bunch of heatsinks to stay cool.

With regards to swarming lights, panic is what lights feed off of. You can pause for a moment when a light is attacking you because it's more important to get a good burn or target for your first alpha strike on the light than it is to fire off a shot in a panic and telling the light he's got about 4 seconds of free face time to do damage to you.

[Akhri Mala]

timff8, on 28 August 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

When I'm in close, and there's 6 mechs swirling around me, and half of them are shooting me simultaneously, and I can see, at best, 2 of them, I can't handle it. It's incredibly claustrophobic to me, and I can't deal well. I've tried using the third-person camera, and it's absolutely no help due to the angle it puts you at.

Have you tried going into heat vision when at brawling ranges? It helps enormously when being blinded by screen shake for me.

[RickySpanish]

If you don't torso twist you are going to eat huge amounts of damage to one or two sections of your 'Mech, it might not be pleasant to look at, but you should at the very least get into the habit of doing it when you find yourself under focussed fire. It makes the difference between reversing around a corner with your armour red, vs not actually making it around the corner at all.

If you absolutely cannot pause your podcasts or talk over comms, at least use the command wheel to call out standard messages to your team, such as target sighted, need help, etc. When you call a target you have selected or an enemy under your reticule, they remain on the map for everyone to see for a few seconds. This includes movement.

The Huntsman is a particularly good 'Mech, it has a lot going for it as it's right in the tonnage, agility and hardpoint sweetspot. It's also got jump jets and is an omni 'Mech. There's a thread in the "New Player" forum where some players recommended it to me, I will see if I can find the thread, you may well find something you like there.

Edit: here you go!

https://mwomercs.com...turning-player/

One last thing - you mention going "balls deep" into MWO as being stressful. If you find yourself really fretting over the game, do yourself a favour and take a break. I know exactly what you mean and I was practically ripping my hair out playing Solaris last season. I have a nasty competitive streak that crops up when I think I ought to be able to do better and it's all consuming. Don't let any activity, especially one you do on your free time, get like that. It's seriously a quick way to end up in a depressed rut. Play the game to enjoy it! This has been life tips, with RickySpanish. Peace!

Edited by RickySpanish, 28 August 2018 - 07:35 PM.

[timff8]

Ruccus, on 28 August 2018 - 06:40 PM, said:

As previously mentioned, if you've got 6 enemies around you you've either overextended or it's the very end of a roll, so there's not much you can do other than try not to get in that situation.

I'm not even talking about 6 enemies, I mean 6 mechs in general, like 3 enemies and 3 allies. And I can't see anything at all.

[timff8]

RickySpanish, on 28 August 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

One last thing - you mention going "balls deep" into MWO as being stressful. If you find yourself really fretting over the game, do yourself a favour and take a break. I know exactly what you mean and I was practically ripping my hair out playing Solaris last season. I have a nasty competitive streak that crops up when I think I ought to be able to do better and it's all consuming. Don't let any activity, especially one you do on your free time, get like that. It's seriously a quick way to end up in a depressed rut. Play the game to enjoy it! This has been life tips, with RickySpanish. Peace!

Honestly I want to enjoy the game while I can so I can't afford to stop. This game is dying and I want to play it before it goes under completely. That and It's just constant stress. It doesnt' -GET- stressful, it just -IS- stressful.

Akhri Mala, on 28 August 2018 - 06:47 PM, said:

Have you tried going into heat vision when at brawling ranges? It helps enormously when being blinded by screen shake for me.

I'm not blinded by screen shake I'm blinded by the cockpit camera being useless.

[Xmith]

Stop listening to a podcast. Your mind is somewhere else. This is one game where you need to keep your focus on what needs to done to win the match. You can still be a missile boat standing right next to your teammates. Have you heard of the term "stay together focus fire"? Well it still holds true. Just stay closer to your team. This way they can help you out if a couple of lights spot you. It is a mistake to stay too far back from your team. Move when they move and stay close as possible. You may get more of your own locks this way too.

My #1 rule is not to get shot. Use cover as much as possible. I believe if you survive the match, most likely you won the match. I try never to get in a brawl without teammates around. My builds primarily are not for brawling. But I can make it work in a pinch if needed most of the time.

Sometime knowing from which direction incoming fire is coming from helps in your survival. Keep an eye on the incoming fire red indicators. You either turn toward the incoming fire or move to find cover. I prefer the latter in most cases.

[Phoenix 72]

Some general things: For me, stress came because I felt overwhelmed. There are so many different things one could do and so many things going on and so many things I should pay attention to according to the specialists on the forum, that I just could not get to do half of that. I still cannot. But things get better with practice.

What I did was cut down on things I had to do. I tried playing to my strengths. From day 1, I found it hard to twist. I was (and in some ways still am) unable to twist correctly, splashing damage all over my Mech. So for the beginning, I took that off the table by doing facetime builds. Builds that work, make you stare at the target for some period of time.

Once I got more comfortable with that playstyle, I bought Mechs that had a dead side, ie one half of the Mech that does not contain anything useful. My weapons are no longer face time, so I shoot and then twist to the dead side and walk back into cover. I still sometimes forget that when I am excited, but right now this works quite often.

Next step will be to work on "real" twisting, when I have this mechanic down.

Now, this is roughly what I suggest for you. Try to pick a build that is not suited for just one role and just one range. Pick a Mech that is somewhat forgiving and/or tanky. Then see what stresses you. Come to the forum, discuss with people what you can do about that one thing that stresses you. Try to cut down on that or work around it. Then move on to the next thing.

But as some people above said: Half the battle is having the right Mechs and a good loadout. Check out my scores in the Jarl's list. You can easily find the point in time where I stopped doing my own thing and started asking questions on the forums.

And last, but not least, turn on voice chat. People do convey information ingame, discuss plans. Not every time, but relatively often. The namecalling comes after losing, directly before people disconnect, usually in text form.

[Sneaky Ohgoorchik]

The first and foremost: you csn improvd your Fov in game settings.

Hey. Im pretty average player, but I had same problems. So, I Read your answer, then checked your jarl's. I wish you tell us your mechs and loadouts, but thats what i think about your current state.

You did pretty good last season you played. I remember when i got myself around 0.9 k/d i experienced same "weightlifting" experience. It was the time when i stick to the 90 alpha assault builds. I guess, as i can see increase in your heavy mech drive percentages, you now have the same way to handle problems.

Ive seen comments above, where people telling you to stick with mediums. I believe you really may better try lights, or lower weight meds. They are pretty much the same thing in stock and after levelinvg. You may try trial variants. Its for the sake of looking at stuff around you and to learn combat pattern from afar.

Also, i want to mention, that brawl is pretty much the safest, chillest place in combat, when you are in proper position and take your time to think and press R. Maybe you just need to try meta heavy builds/good mechs and be fine with being somewhat blind.

And lastly: try the same builds you already use, but with bigger, faster engines.

Tldr: mobility is the first thing you may try now. Along with gnerally "good" mechs.

P.S.: thx for mentioning the inability to see. I forgot about it. It do may improve my own vision of the game now.

Edited by Sneaky Ohgoorchik, 28 August 2018 - 09:49 PM.

[YueFei]

timff8, on 28 August 2018 - 07:57 PM, said:

I'm not even talking about 6 enemies, I mean 6 mechs in general, like 3 enemies and 3 allies. And I can't see anything at all.

Use the minimap to gauge angles for proper twisting. That way you don't under-twist or over-twist. It also gives you something "fixed" to look at, rather than a rapidly-panning view thru the cockpit glass (which can be nauseating for some people).

Also, being backed-off a little bit helps. As others have repeatedly stressed, try not to go balls deep into any fray, since doing so forces you to try to deal with a larger arc of enemies and friendlies.

Sometimes the difference between good and bad positioning is really just 50 meters. Being in a better position can mean the difference between having to deal with a 120-degree arc of enemies in front of you, and having to deal with a 20-degree arc consisting of just you and one bad guy.

That video I posted about perspective applies to more than just 1v1 trades. The concept of "slicing the pie" helps to make it less likely that you'll end up trading against 2 or more enemies simultaneously, limiting your exposure to 1 enemy at a time.

One last bit of mechanics advice on hill-peeking: don't go straight forward and backward on hills or ramps when peeking (or jump straight up and down). Go diagonally up and down if you can. This makes you a laterally-moving target as well, and against anyone not packing hit-scan weaponry, will force them to lead the shot to hit you, and if that forces their reticule onto the skybox, you just ruined any chance they had at getting convergence for their shot. Even if it doesn't go into the skybox, forcing the shot to be aimed at the background behind you also helps reduce their convergence.