60 replies to this topic

[Anjian]

Davegt27, on 18 September 2018 - 03:47 AM, said:

Describes these maps perfectly.

[Dragonporn]

I have a problem with only two maps: Polar and Solaris.
Easy and much needed fix for the first one, is just to slap more tall ice blocks or something, map literally has no cover, minus some buildings that are very few and not used at all in most modes.
For Solaris, removing a few giant buildings would easily do the trick, since most lanes are so narrow, that literally only one mech can barely squeeze there, which turns whole match into one big cluster****. Also removing some objects would definitely improve performance, which many folks struggle with on this map.

That not that much of a work, why PGI hesitates for so long?...

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Dragonporn, on 18 September 2018 - 07:52 AM, said:

I have a problem with only two maps: Polar and Solaris.
Easy and much needed fix for the first one, is just to slap more tall ice blocks or something, map literally has no cover, minus some buildings that are very few and not used at all in most modes.
For Solaris, removing a few giant buildings would easily do the trick, since most lanes are so narrow, that literally only one mech can barely squeeze there, which turns whole match into one big cluster****. Also removing some objects would definitely improve performance, which many folks struggle with on this map.

That not that much of a work, why PGI hesitates for so long?...

Polar has many Covers ...only the Red Team find it ? only the Red can use the Trenches ? when one Team win its give enough Covers and LRMs not the Problem ...only the Skill and Playstyle from one team.

By Solaris ...yes its a Mousetrap for oversized Mechs ...more like a Arena like a real City with Streets like a Big City ...looks the City Maps in MW4 ...

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 18 September 2018 - 08:05 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Anjian, on 18 September 2018 - 05:19 AM, said:

Describes these maps perfectly.

looks more like typical Arena Maps for Quake or UT or Starcraft .. or Paintball Arenas ..not like Battlefields like Arma or Battlefield 2 or MWLL or BF2142 ..not bad ..only to small ...more like brawlermaps for fast Gameplay thats more Maps like HAWKEN not Mechwarrior (or Woodland paintball Players)..were Maps like this will can Play Heavy Gear Arena shooter

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 18 September 2018 - 08:10 AM.

[Viking Yelling]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 18 September 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

Polar has many Covers ...only the Red Team find it ? only the Red can use the Trenches ? when one Team win its give enough Covers and LRMs not the Problem ...only the Skill and Playstyle from one team.

lol yeah, Polar's biggest cover is Radar Dep, and ECM/ECM buddies.

[Khobai]

I dunno why PGI loves placing big impassable mountains on half their maps. But thats part of the problem.

Terra Therma, Forest Colony, Alpine, Crimson Straits, etc... all suffer from that problem

[Viking Yelling]

Khobai, on 18 September 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

I dunno why PGI loves placing big impassable mountains on half their maps. But thats part of the problem.

Terra Therma, Forest Colony, Alpine, Crimson Straits, etc... all suffer from that problem

yeah, PGI should just stick to their Combat-Arena map styles and totally not develop maps that impart the feeling of actually having to pilot a huge freakin mech.

Some map null space to separate map areas is fine, but look how goot Oasis turned out to be. come to think of it, probably beats Plexus for top map.

I do wish they would do something similar with Forest Colony and Alpine since those maps dont get votes often.

Edited by Viking Yelling, 18 September 2018 - 10:20 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

and Solaris City ..many new assets and most bad placement the Railways , thats blocked many ways...all is small and looks like a bad builded Modelrailway and all is dark and green and Blink Blink ...Crimson or River looks very better as Citys

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

Canyon, Solaris and Polar are my least favourite maps in the game. Despite what the tryhards believe, Canyon is not balanced at all because of the Alpha lance spawn placements which funnel one side's mechs to their doom if they dare go straight ahead at the start.

[Xmith]

I just checked my map stats. Avererage win rate is 1.02 with Polar Highlands dragging down my map stats at 0.64. Yuck. This map is a real challenge for me to do well. I really don’t dislike the map, it’s just more difficult to fiqure out. The player base has to be more creative when playing on certain maps. Instead going right and center, how about going left for a change.

Maps designers should always make maps more challenging than easy and simple. This world was not create for opposing armies to have an enjoyable war experience. Instead they use war strategies that have been developed over a long period of time.

[Anjian]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 18 September 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

looks more like typical Arena Maps for Quake or UT or Starcraft .. or Paintball Arenas ..not like Battlefields like Arma or Battlefield 2 or MWLL or BF2142 ..not bad ..only to small ...more like brawlermaps for fast Gameplay thats more Maps like HAWKEN not Mechwarrior (or Woodland paintball Players)..were Maps like this will can Play Heavy Gear Arena shooter

Yup. These maps perfectly work for arena type games, and if the game is an arena type game, you focus on being a good arena type game. For example, World of Tanks is an arena type game. So is World of Warships, even though its maps are vast.

Check the mini map in this video. You can rescale that map for a human, tank or mech shooter, replacing water with ground. It also conforms to the map configuration laid out above.





I played Hawken. Hawken maps are not anything like this and MWO maps are not like Hawken's. Hawken maps involve a lot of platforms like battling in different floors within a large building. Hawken has a sense of three dimension and indoor fighting no mech game has, and for that reason, its feels a lot more like Overwatch. Its the equivalent of fighting a game using DVA's mech.



MWO needs to decide what kind of game it is. Because its not MWLL which is a joint arms game.

Edited by Anjian, 18 September 2018 - 05:54 PM.

[Anjian]

Khobai, on 18 September 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

I dunno why PGI loves placing big impassable mountains on half their maps. But thats part of the problem.

Terra Therma, Forest Colony, Alpine, Crimson Straits, etc... all suffer from that problem

Its called corridors. Its meant to guide players into pre-determined areas of battle.

[Anjian]

Viking Yelling, on 18 September 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

yeah, PGI should just stick to their Combat-Arena map styles and totally not develop maps that impart the feeling of actually having to pilot a huge freakin mech.

Some map null space to separate map areas is fine, but look how goot Oasis turned out to be. come to think of it, probably beats Plexus for top map.

I do wish they would do something similar with Forest Colony and Alpine since those maps dont get votes often.

Arena games are fine. They bring large audiences and with it, money. I am not sure if people want a giant mech simulator. Those that were actually good at being giant mech simulators, like Shattered Steel, never went far in the market.


I don't think MWO ever imparted a feel of piloting a giant mech.

Edited by Anjian, 18 September 2018 - 05:58 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Khobai, on 18 September 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

I dunno why PGI loves placing big impassable mountains on half their maps. But thats part of the problem.

Terra Therma, Forest Colony, Alpine, Crimson Straits, etc... all suffer from that problem

Well, with the way some of the paths and footholds were designed in some of the maps, it leads me to believe that at least one of PGIs map designers actually hates us, there are some strangely placed rods and trees that are immortal and only serve to make one go "what the f man" when it caused them to go from 80kph in an 80 ton monstrosity to 0.

[Variant1]

i miss the old terra therma, but for the most part most of the maps are good. also lsome people cant see on terra therma? thats kinda strange considering i can see fine on that map without thermal of nv.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Anjian, on 18 September 2018 - 05:58 PM, said:

Arena games are fine. They bring large audiences and with it, money. I am not sure if people want a giant mech simulator. Those that were actually good at being giant mech simulators, like Shattered Steel, never went far in the market.


I don't think MWO ever imparted a feel of piloting a giant mech.

and thats the Problem for Sim/Arma/Mechwarrior Fans like me ...when im will a Arena Shooter im playing UT not Battlefield 2...im hate this unnatural Arenastyle ...im hate the Arenas in MW4 and like the most ..theSolaris Part was nothing a part for the most Battletechfans in this universe..Epic combined Arms Battles was Battletech and Mechwarrior ...not Arenafights...Battletech not Arenatech..so im played more War Thunder or BF 2 as MWO

other Problem is the Quality of the Maps ...Rubbelite only ugly with the Brown Wall style and terrible using of Textures and Solaris ...the Assets more like a Basictrain for modellers ...cubes with simple textures of it...all good modellers and Mapdesigner now by MW5 ? or leave with his experience to other Companys with better Conditions and Sucess

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 18 September 2018 - 08:15 PM.

[Grus]

Anjian, on 18 September 2018 - 02:03 AM, said:

Sometimes being too big is not good.
.

I dont know who told you that but thats a lie...

[Anjian]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 18 September 2018 - 08:08 PM, said:

and thats the Problem for Sim/Arma/Mechwarrior Fans like me ...when im will a Arena Shooter im playing UT not Battlefield 2...im hate this unnatural Arenastyle ...im hate the Arenas in MW4 and like the most ..theSolaris Part was nothing a part for the most Battletechfans in this universe..Epic combined Arms Battles was Battletech and Mechwarrior ...not Arenafights...Battletech not Arenatech..so im played more War Thunder or BF 2 as MWO

What makes you think that War Thunder's maps are not arena maps as well? Gaijin only disguises them better. But all the characteristics are there. I'm sure you played the Poland map in Ground Forces right?

Grus, on 18 September 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

I dont know who told you that but thats a lie...

Really? Lets go back to War Thunder. For their Arcade mode, they would section a map so it would become smaller, much smaller, than if it was for Realistic and Simulation battles.

If I remember correctly, Yoshida-san, on an interview about his overhaul of Final Fantasy 14, criticized that the maps had a lot of beautiful detail that no one would ever look at.

Edited by Anjian, 18 September 2018 - 10:25 PM.

[Khobai]

Anjian, on 18 September 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

Its called corridors. Its meant to guide players into pre-determined areas of battle.

which is the exact opposite of what MWO needs. MWO doesnt need maps that force players into "pre-determined areas of battle". Maps that channel players to the same exact spot every game, like Forest Colony, Terra Therma, etc... are NEVER fun in skirmish. What MWO needs are open maps with multiple avenues of attack and abundant cover. Maps like Canyon Network and HPG Manifold. We dont need crappy mountains everywhere blocking movement.

MWO also needs better gamemodes with objectives that encourage teams to split up and spread out across the map. That way deathballing/camping is discouraged. Which in turn creates a healthier environment for lights/mediums to thrive since they have a better chance of fighting isolated enemy mechs instead of getting obliterated by deathballs.

Edited by Khobai, 19 September 2018 - 12:25 AM.

[Anjian]

Khobai, on 19 September 2018 - 12:17 AM, said:

which is the exact opposite of what MWO needs. MWO doesnt need maps that force players into "pre-determined areas of battle". Maps that channel players to the same exact spot every game, like Forest Colony, Terra Therma, etc... are NEVER fun in skirmish. What MWO needs are open maps with multiple avenues of attack and abundant cover. Maps like Canyon Network and HPG Manifold. We dont need crappy mountains everywhere blocking movement.

Yes, this is a very bad habit picked up from the Wargaming school of map design. Their maps are full of corridors. One reason why I hate their maps and eventually hate playing their games, since you know the maps are shoveling players into ambush points. War Thunder though, has less corridors other than the natural ones you see within a city.

Quote

MWO also needs better gamemodes with objectives that encourage teams to split up and spread out across the map. That way deathballing/camping is discouraged. Which in turn creates a healthier environment for lights/mediums to thrive since they have a better chance of fighting isolated enemy mechs instead of getting obliterated by deathballs.

Exactly why you look at the maps I posted. They each have five beacons that have to be captured and protected for the next ten minutes which is how long the game will last, and you can throw in a minimum of 3 to a maximum of 5 mechs in a drop deck of your design. This forces a deck with a multiplicity of roles. Runner --- to capture the beacons. Brawler --- to remove enemy mechs on those beacons, and to occupy and hold those beacons. Skirmisher, a role of both brawler and runner at the same time, not fast enough to be a runner alone, not strong enough alone to push the enemy from a position, or tank and hold a position, but meant to take advantage of a fluid situation, and attrition the enemy team. Lastly there is the sniper or support, meant for long to medium range engagement, meant to support your forces, suppress the enemy team, and reduce them by attrition.

Edited by Anjian, 19 September 2018 - 01:34 AM.