169 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

The Mysterious Fox, on 23 September 2018 - 12:49 AM, said:

light is where the real power creep is, quirks, scaling hit boxes, lag armor, higher and higher speeds, an increasing number of hardpoints everywhere.

give me an annie to crush under my boot anyday

There are only two Lights with a gigantic number of hardpoints, and there is only one Light that goes faster than Lights did in 2014. Otherwise, the hardpoints are the same and they are slower overall. They are also bigger overall.

I have never seen lag armor on my end.

[Lethe Wyvern]

Judah Malganis, on 23 September 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:

True, but in general, they tend to outperform the other lances, regardless of the overall team performance, because they're forced to clean up the messes the rest of their team refuses to follow-up on. Losing your lights early is a clear indicator that you are about to have a 12-0 or 12-1 superstomp.

What about losing your meds/heavies/assaults early? Not gonna superstomp, huh? Where from this "they tend to outperform the other lances" and what "early" you talking about? Really interested in such stat data.

Yeonne Greene, on 22 September 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

For comparison, my Lights:

Spoiler

My Assaults:

Spoiler

How do you get these tables? I mean my stat tables looks way different(fashion, not about numbers)

Speaking of stats, here the tables i made when interested how various gamemodes impact mechstats(since SoloQ, GroupQ, Scouting, CW and Solaris are unseparated) and comparing them with piranhas:
https://docs.google....V_nQ/edit#gid=0
I asked my teammates to share their stats for analysis(some tables named just MW, others with ingame names, LW is me) i will add screeneis of mine, also if needed i could ask for other screeneis(personally i dont need them because of trust)
So you can use LW table as example(comments and some additional calculations)

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/a/croipyN

p.s. please note this is not a final result and i know that it have flaws and could be misleading sometimes, still working on

Edited by Lethe Wyvern, 23 September 2018 - 01:57 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Lethe Wyvern, on 23 September 2018 - 01:09 AM, said:

How do you get these tables? I mean my stat tables looks way different(fashion, not about numbers)

It's a plug-in for Chrome.

[Weeny Machine]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 September 2018 - 01:04 AM, said:

There are only two Lights with a gigantic number of hardpoints, and there is only one Light that goes faster than Lights did in 2014. Otherwise, the hardpoints are the same and they are slower overall. They are also bigger overall.

I have never seen lag armor on my end.

You misunderstand what "lag armour means" in MWO...it means "Lacking Aim Gamer"

But sarcasm aside: hitreg has its up and downs but that is not limited to lights. I cannot count how often I put 2 x 5 MPL in a potato assault's back CT back and it was light yellow.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 23 September 2018 - 01:16 AM.

[Judah Malganis]

Quote

What about losing your meds/heavies/assaults early? Not gonna superstomp, huh? Where from this "they tend to outperform the other lances" and what "early" you talking about? Really interested in such stat data.

Sadly, I don't screen shot the team scoreboard at the end of every match, but at least in QP, lights (Alpha Lance) tend to carry 50% or more of the kills on their side on a very frequent basis. It's anecdotal, but it's also true.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 23 September 2018 - 01:24 AM.

[Lethe Wyvern]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 September 2018 - 01:10 AM, said:

It's a plug-in for Chrome.

Yay! I was blind and now i see!

[The Mysterious Fox]

Judah Malganis, on 23 September 2018 - 12:55 AM, said:

Yet they still account for less than 10% of the mech use in game, so their OPness is somehow a well-kept secret. Or maybe it's that regardless of how strong a light mech is, you're always essentially just one wham-bam-good-day-ma'am sort of mistake away from a tragedy when you pilot one, so it makes them very unattractive.

but the point of this thread is that their OPness isn't a well-kept secret as you say. every other point you made has nothing to do about this topic :/ especially that 10% thing, what a whiff.

Bush Hopper, on 23 September 2018 - 12:55 AM, said:

Wow, generalisation for the win, eh?

You are talking about the whole class. The only lights which stand out is the PIR-1 and a Flea and this only because the light mech class as a whole struggles. On the other hand heavies and assaults are able to sling obscene alphas and also can easily 1-shot with a dual heavy gauss salvo any light.

Also, about higher speed: there was a speed reduction across the board a time back (was it 1 or 2 years ago?). Now, which class lost the most speed? Have a guess. But yes...they get more and more /eyeroll

like you said, 'across the board', everyones agility got smashed and most lights have rebounded with the new chassis. granted old cspl knife fighting is gone but theyve filled that gap via hardpoint inflation so im not sure where all these apologists are coming from :/ everyone plays the game and its not a fact that is disputed

[Jyrox]

I didn't want to add anything as Ilike christians my best lights are assautls, but, yes.

When I was in the goth scene I once wore a crucifix and someone said to me, "You're not a christian, why are you wearing that!"

I replied, "To remind myself of human cruelty, that the Roman Empire once crucified 3,000 slaves along the Appian way."

True story, so is what I now write...

I played in Beta, let it go for a year, played for a few years, let it go due to very stressful external conditions, came back this year...and..assaults are not worth it. Sadly.

My best damage is with a Cyclops at 1350, but I've done 1002 with a 9xSpl Hunchback, I've done over 1000 with a 4xac2 Rifleman, I've done 826 with a Phoenix Hawk.

I have the video of my Pheonix Hawk doing that damage. In fact my Phoenix Hawk I should dub "Marauder Killer"

Oh well.

[Weeny Machine]

The Mysterious Fox, on 23 September 2018 - 01:34 AM, said:

like you said, 'across the board', everyones agility got smashed and most lights have rebounded with the new chassis.

I am not only referring to agility like turning but raw speed. 10% of 70 kph is simply lower than 10% of 150 kph. However, as already mentioned, this was just one of many blows vs the light mech class.

[Jyrox]

Ode to a dead class that can only sit at the back with LRM's...

[LordNothing]

Maddermax, on 22 September 2018 - 11:43 PM, said:

My Quad LBX10 slipnir loves it when lights think they’ve found easy prey. I have invested into torso and turn speed and pitch skills just for such occasions, and making them fall over in 1-2 shots (assuming my aim is decent) is bliss. Then I feel bad about it, as usually I’m the one piloting the lights, and I know that feel XD

sleipnir is a great light killer. oddly enough so is the dire/warhawk. sometimes low arms are useful. one of the major turnoffs with the annihilator is it has a massive pot belly to hide under, its guns are too high to hit most lights, and its cockpit is way to high so you dont have any visibility of lights that are up close. you havew to resort to unlocking the arms and using freelook, and even then you are aiming with sensors only. when you are in an assault it is inevitable you will encounter lights so strong light fighting knowhow is essential.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 September 2018 - 02:06 AM.

[Jyrox]

6 kills by Fafnir, but damage is just over 150 compared to my Griffin...look at end...

Um, still not sober from last night, try 250...

Edited by Jyrox, 23 September 2018 - 02:07 AM.

[Vonbach]

Assaults have been dead ever since the engine de sync. "Hur durr just shoot the piranha!"
A lot of the time you cant shoot the thing because you cant turn fast enough in a brawl.
I've seen what happens to a game when they go and buff the light classes over the heavies.
Anyone remember Hawken?

[Y E O N N E]

Judah Malganis, on 23 September 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

Sadly, I don't screen shot the team scoreboard at the end of every match, but at least in QP, lights (Alpha Lance) tend to carry 50% or more of the kills on their side on a very frequent basis. It's anecdotal, but it's also true.

I mean, they are the ones who run down the targets ducking to cover to finish them off, often with weapons featuring a higher RoF than your bigger alpha-centered builds, so that tracks. They are also the class most likely in position to place a good air-strike, which is largely responsible for the big, inflated, 1k scores you find the better players making with them. Otherwise, it's just a 500-700 damage match, and that was a lot of work to get even that compared to larger 'Mechs.

Vonbach, on 23 September 2018 - 02:04 AM, said:

Assaults have been dead ever since the engine de sync. "Hur durr just shoot the piranha!"
A lot of the time you cant shoot the thing because you cant turn fast enough in a brawl.
I've seen what happens to a game when they go and buff the light classes over the heavies.
Anyone remember Hawken?

Is that why every match is a pain train of Annihilators, Mad Cats, Slepnirs, Fafnirs, and Supernovas?

[Vonbach]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 September 2018 - 02:10 AM, said:

Is that why every match is a pain train of Annihilators, Mad Cats, Slepnirs, Fafnirs, and Supernovas?

Until they run into a group with two or three Piranhas in it and they all die with their weapons stripped off of them.

[Y E O N N E]

Vonbach, on 23 September 2018 - 02:17 AM, said:

Until they run into a group with two or three Piranhas in it and they all die with their weapons stripped off of them.

As opposed to the entire rest of the team running into those Assaults and getting deleted from the game, right?

[Weeny Machine]

Vonbach, on 23 September 2018 - 02:17 AM, said:

Until they run into a group with two or three Piranhas in it and they all die with their weapons stripped off of them.

Weird that you hardly see many lights per team and when there are more than one then they are not all PIRs.

As I said before: if the PIR is so obscenely op, why don't we drown in PIRs? On the other hand you see 2-4 times the number of your "dead" assaults compared to light mechs per match. This and the light queue number is the lowest of all by a good margin

You know, in online pvp games the majority of people flog to the thing which is most op. Do you really want to tell us that MWO is the one exception in the whol WWW?

Another thing is, you have played 22 matches in a light in the last 3 seasons with a K/D of 00.45 and a match score of 159. These match scores must be PIRs because you must have made hands-on experience the way you talk. So, how does it come that such an obscenely OP mech which is easy to handly for everyone result in such stats as yours?
I really do not mean that as an ad hominem but as you see, things simply do not line up.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 23 September 2018 - 03:13 AM.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Bush Hopper, on 23 September 2018 - 03:10 AM, said:

Weird that you hardly see many lights per team and when there are more than one then they are not all PIRs.

As I said before: if the PIR is so obscenely op, why don't we drown in PIRs? On the other hand you see 2-4 times the number of your "dead" assaults compared to light mechs per match. This and the light queue number is the lowest of all by a good margin

You know, in online pvp games the majority of people flog to the thing which is most op. Do you really want to tell us that MWO is the one exception in the whol WWW?

Another thing is, you have played 22 matches in a light in the last 3 seasons with a K/D of 00.45 and a match score of 159. These match scores must be PIRs because you must have made hands-on experience the way you talk. So, how does it come that such an obscenely OP mech which is easy to handly for everyone result in such stats as yours?
I really do not mean that as an ad hominem but as you see, things simply do not line up.

Myself at least dont play lights very often because I do not like them. Lights gameplay is not what I have in mind when I think of “mechs” - heavies ans assults fit the image much better. Playing a light is very much like a hundred other twitch-centric shooters playing glass cannons. This is the opposite of what I want from a mech warrior game.
I suspect that many others may share the same ideas and the most effective tool is not the same as the tool they want to play - and this is why you dont see that many Piranahs.

Edited by ShiverMeRivets, 23 September 2018 - 11:14 AM.

[xe N on]

Jyrox, on 23 September 2018 - 02:04 AM, said:

6 kills by Fafnir, but damage is just over 150 compared to my Griffin...look at end...

Um, still not sober from last night, try 250...

My comment: Your build is bad. Far too large engine, too less firepower. 110 kph in a mediums with that large profile of a GRF is not helping you against anyone who is even mediocre in aiming. The gain in speed is not worth the tonnage, especially since large engines only bring speed and no gain in mobility.

You do arm lock in brawling, which is bad with your 4 HMGs in your right arm. And you stare at the enemy instead of twist incoming damage.

If that is a try to shreds things in a medium with MGs ... don't. Take a 3x RAC2 Bushwalker instead. That thing does 19 DPS at 500+ range and has the right profile to stare at the enemy.

I would have blown out your side torso in that GRF-5M any of my 55 ton brawlers in two alphas ...

Edited by xe N on, 23 September 2018 - 12:08 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

ShiverMeRivets, on 23 September 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

Myself at least dont play lights very often because I do not like them. Lights gameplay is not what I have in mind when I think of “mechs” - heavies ans assults fit the image much better. Playing a light is very much like a hundred other twitch-centric shooters playing glass cannons. This is the opposite of what I want from a mech warrior game.
I suspect that many others may share the same ideas and the most effective tool is not the same as the tool they want to play - and this is why you dont see that many Piranahs.

I think less people play them because less people can play them effectively. They might often say have no interest in them for whatever reason, but I suspect that's a post-facto opinion. Unless you are watching the most exceptional players, you can see even on stream that competent players in larger 'Mechs frequently do not do as well in Lights.

As for Lights being like every other twitch shooter, not at all. The acceleration, jumping, and directional changes are still way slower. The rest of the field do not necessarily move like you, either, and there is nowhere at all that you can make a single-shot kill if you have enough skill. Lights are slow-mo.