226 replies to this topic

[R0gal D0rn]

Some people believes in the "spontaneous" coordination of the teams, but the correct word is "Silent".
Sometimes i´m in a team, i see the concrete names in my side the concrete names in the opposite side, the Mechs we have (There is a long searching time, making you able to calculate the relative speed and firepower of the entire team, use it to make some assumptions...) And, i´m sorry i´m not as fluent as I wish with my english, I will not say something if i don´t detect a BIG weak spot in the tactic being used... By example, trying to use the central corridor in terra therma when your team carries slow assaults, or the ussual wolf pack hurring the assaults to give a good position in Frozent city just to follot them to be catch in a terrible position in one of the sides. Or people dont giving a **** about how many ECM and long range weaponery has their team, running as fools to find the enemy, not caring about being catch in one of the most uncovered sections of Bipolar lurmlands...
Yesterday all my team was following the lights just to the bottleneck in terra therma--- I said "OK Guys, maybe we could use the left corridor and avoid the choke point. They have some good players in their Assaults lance, we have pesky lights... Maybe the frontal assault isn´t the best tactic.
A condescending voice, speaking in a southern accent too difficult to understand for my old european ears said:
" Oh, never mind, we can force the central line, good players can do it"
"Good players can do everything, but only if they face worst players... Are you sure that we are better enough to give them for free a better cover and better options to flank us" I said...
"Man i´m in the Jarl List and my W/L ratio blah blah blah..."

Obviously it was a 12-2 stomp . At least it was a short suffering.


Guys, not everybody is a young geek, born in the USA, a prodige of aiming, and a virtual born killer...Xd But some people, being only average Joes, have a lot of experience about this game.. They know form first hand all the things that can go wrong. Like those seargents that are not heroes or great strategists, but can say in the first minute if the battle is won, lost or something to decide... Sometimes you see your platoon and know you can´t give any advantage to the enemy.

I´m losing my good manners in this game, something that never happened to me in previous games. I used to be a very controlled player. The issues with the matchmaker is touching my patience, and well, some palyers are particulary irritating, specially when you have not the language tools to make rain tons of irony upon their heads...

I apologize. But please. You have not to obey a tip given by an older player. Just take it in consideration. And don´t be a chauvinist. English can be the official language of the game, but if you dont take even the consideration of speaking a little bit more slow, a little bit more articulate, and use less slang, you are forcing the non english speakers to make a big effort to understand your coms... You cant imagine the experience of being the only one alive in a match, anf three or four guys speaking at the same time, and discussing not essential things when you are triying to decide whre to go, who to shoot... Really this is not a nice game experience... And i speak 4 languages ,so i can live it in many possible forms... XD
Coms are great, just be sure to... Communicate...

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 27 September 2018 - 07:20 AM.

[General Solo]

A great skill better players need to learn is how to tell someone (drop calling guy) their wrong effectively.

Effective = quickly sell why they are wrong and why your alternative plan is better. (20 seconds or less)
In fact your selling it to the team, coz once the team follows you drop caller guy will follow.
(Or at least the other 11 will, enough to win most games.


If you don't have the team on your side, It don't matter how great your calls are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 28 September 2018 - 12:47 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

OZHomerOZ, on 28 September 2018 - 12:42 AM, said:

A great skill better players need to learn is how to tell someone (drop calling guy) their wrong effectively.

Effective = quickly sell why they are wrong and why your alternative plan is better. (20 seconds or less)
In fact your selling it to the team, coz once the team follows you drop caller guy will follow.
(Or at least the other 11 will, enough to win most games.


If you don't have the team on your side, It don't matter how great your calls are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes I would say that is a pretty safe rule, if you can think of why its a bad idea and know you can effectively communicate your argument and plan quickly, do it, but if it is just going to cause last minute chaos, it is often better to just go with whatever is called. Calling out "no your plan sucks" or something to that extent and just leaving that hanging there will just make things worse really.

[General Solo]

Agreed very true
What I was meaning is when a plan is called at the very beginning of the game where the chance of enemy contact is nill

In the middle of a fight is definitely the wrong time

[Shifty McSwift]

OZHomerOZ, on 28 September 2018 - 01:19 AM, said:

Agreed very true
What I was meaning is when a plan is called at the very beginning of the game where the chance of enemy contact is nill

In the middle of a fight is definitely the wrong time

Yeah I didn't mean to infer you were suggesting it, just agreeing and pointing it out, conciseness in comms is an essential part of it.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 28 September 2018 - 01:23 AM.

[Joshua McEvedy]

UnofficialOperator, on 25 September 2018 - 06:36 PM, said:

It doesn't work. This is advice I heard in T5 when I started out years back. 99% of the time it doesn't work. When I went up in tiers, the winning strategy was always to get top. Then you realize why the same guys are still stuck in T5

Speak for yourself. It does work. I've done it repeatedly and successfully with my unit. So stop with the know-it-all arrogance.

[Ghogiel]

Dragonporn, on 25 September 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

Just recently I managed to talk folks into going basement on HPG (Skirmish), we literally murdered enemy team, rolled over them and stomped into the ground. However, most challenging part was to keep trigger-happy folks from leaving the deathball. Every time people try to take top on HPG, it ALWAYS turns into big, fat disorganized s***show, and either team can only win purely by luck.

The only time you can go basement on HPG is skirmish or Dom, and Only if you have a kill lead. Every other time it's a risky strat that has no real reward gain. And if you don't get the kill lead or there is some straggler that get caught out there or someone gets drilled going under... well if it werent potato land full of pugs it'll be ggclose right there

Edited by Ghogiel, 28 September 2018 - 03:49 AM.

[General Solo]

Thing about the basement is what if ur teams half lerms!!!!!!

did u ask them?

[Bombast]

Joshua McEvedy, on 28 September 2018 - 03:38 AM, said:

Speak for yourself. It does work. I've done it repeatedly and successfully with my unit. So stop with the know-it-all arrogance.

The key phrase being "with my unit." A predetermined mix of mechwarriors who are already dedicated to following orders. Against an unorganized rabble, you would have won no matter what you did. You could have won by staying out of the center area and on dirt (Assuming non-Domination, of course).

When teams are even close to being equal, basement loses.

[Geek Verve]

Funky Bacon, on 25 September 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

I would rather have my team follow a bad order than have no direction at all.

Thread should have ended there.

[UnofficialOperator]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 08 October 2018 - 02:49 PM.
unconstructive

[Oldbob10025]

UnofficialOperator, on 25 September 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

If you are in the bottom 20% of the players.

Its frequently just wrong.

Simple if you don't want to hear anyone drop call but the top .0000000001% then play in a 12 man group Group/faction play. Or turn off your coms and do your own thing. Or better yet drop call yourself and show everyone your a leader and not someone that complains a lot about no one knows how to drop call. Show yourself as a leader and lead by example and show them hows its done so the future people playing this game can see your leadership skills or even teach them how to drop call.

I commend you if you would do that but I don't see that happening. Although i've been surprised by some in my time.

[Variant1]

Mr Steinbrenner, on 25 September 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

and when 50% of your community barely gives a **** about winning and just likes staring in 3rd person at their pretty robot back before putting out under 200 damage and dying, theres a good chance they win more than they lose.

The game should be about having fun not winning, winning is the effect of playing both players can have fun winning/losing to assume that only winning is fun is arbitrary. Also dont smack talk 3rd person vehicle combat games are best played in third person, and maybe some of us like looking at our mechs and shooting at the same time?

Judah Malganis, on 25 September 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

It's amazing how participation is so disincentivized in MWO. "I don't press R because I hate LRM boats", "I don't use VOIP because nothing good comes of it", " I don't follow calls because reasons", among other selfish streaks shown by players in this game. We all have self-interest, but somehow, the devs don't reward participation (or punish failure to participate) in such a way that it overrides that self-centeredness.

No one does the "dont press r" its only a minority of players, that or most likely inexperienced ones. Also most of us dont use voip because real men type with keyboards and can play just as well as those that use voip. From my experience playing pugs, pugs can play pretty well without comms, infact silent matches feel like the players work things out without a single word is impressive.

[S O L A I S]

Funky Bacon, on 25 September 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

I would rather have my team follow a bad order than have no direction at all.

And I'd rather be on a team where people know what they are doing and use their heads instead of mindlessly following the herd.

[Bombast]

S O L A I S, on 30 September 2018 - 08:28 PM, said:

And I'd rather be on a team where people know what they are doing and use their heads instead of mindlessly following the herd.

I have to agree. Teamwork is OP, of course, but it can be led astray by foolish drop callers. Players who actually understand the maps and how movement works on them are always a boon to the team though, no matter what garbage is spat out over comms, because they'll know whats a good idea, whats a bad idea, and what they need to do.

[Geek Verve]

Bombast, on 30 September 2018 - 09:09 PM, said:

I have to agree. Teamwork is OP, of course, but it can be led astray by foolish drop callers. Players who actually understand the maps and how movement works on them are always a boon to the team though, no matter what garbage is spat out over comms, because they'll know whats a good idea, whats a bad idea, and what they need to do.

If those people would speak up, then those "foolish drop callers" would happily defer to them nine times out of ten. Instead, what happens the vast majority of the time is 12-mechs take off in different directions with different plans, and the die is cast.

So yeah, in the absence of a voice of experience, I would much rather have the team at least focused on *something*, even if it's wrong.

[Mystere]

Folks, Alexander The Great and Julius Caesar did not become great commanders through genetics. They had to learn how to become one. Thus, if people are not given the chance and practice, how are they supposed to learn?

[Bombast]

Geek Verve, on 01 October 2018 - 07:03 AM, said:

If those people would speak up, then those "foolish drop callers" would happily defer to them nine times out of ten. Instead, what happens the vast majority of the time is 12-mechs take off in different directions with different plans, and the die is cast.

So yeah, in the absence of a voice of experience, I would much rather have the team at least focused on *something*, even if it's wrong.

Except that's not how it works. Good strats are frequently shouted down or ignored because player's don't know they're good ideas. Attempting to correct bad strats are try harding. Making any suggestion to a particular player has an 80% chance of being ignored, and a 20% chance of being violently rejected because "let me play my way."

There's a reason a huge portion, if not the majority, of competent drop callers and players have shut up. It's thankless, barely anyone listens, half of the ones who do get offended, and it doesn't work.

Good drop callers get ignored fairly consistently. Players who pay even the slightest attention to map flow and positioning always help the team.

Mystere, on 01 October 2018 - 07:17 AM, said:

Folks, Alexander The Great and Julius Caesar did not become great commanders through genetics. They had to learn how to become one. Thus, if people are not given the chance and practice, how are they supposed to learn?

Before someone can practice drop calling to get good, they have to understand the maps and how they work. All the calling practice in the world will not give the person calling a fundamental understanding of movement.

Most bad callers are bad because they skip that step. They jump straight from ignorance to calling the shots. The real life analogue would be, I suppose, learning how basic infantry maneuvers are performed before trying to assault an enemy position. If you jump straight to the assaulting bit, everyone is gonna die.

Edited by Bombast, 01 October 2018 - 07:21 AM.

[Geek Verve]

Bombast, on 01 October 2018 - 07:18 AM, said:

Good strats are frequently shouted down or ignored because player's don't know they're good ideas. Attempting to correct bad strats are try harding. Making any suggestion to a particular player has an 80% chance of being ignored, and a 20% chance of being violently rejected because "let me play my way."

I've been back a couple weeks. I'm *really* rusty, and I've never been what one might consider qualified to call a match. I can tell you that I've not heard anyone who cared to step up shouted down or otherwise debated. I can also tell you that every time someone has stepped up and tried to call, the majority of the team at least tried to execute the plan. Without exception people seemed to be eager for some coordinated plan of attack.

I do not agree with the notion that there is any reason for an experienced player to refrain from calling, short of it simply being their own personal preference.

Edited by Geek Verve, 01 October 2018 - 09:25 AM.

[Mystere]

Bombast, on 01 October 2018 - 07:18 AM, said:

Before someone can practice drop calling to get good, they have to understand the maps and how they work. All the calling practice in the world will not give the person calling a fundamental understanding of movement.

Most bad callers are bad because they skip that step. They jump straight from ignorance to calling the shots. The real life analogue would be, I suppose, learning how basic infantry maneuvers are performed before trying to assault an enemy position. If you jump straight to the assaulting bit, everyone is gonna die.

Psst:

Mystere, on 01 October 2018 - 07:17 AM, said:

They had to learn how to become one.

Or in other words, learning requires a combination of the following: a proper education, help from a mentor or tutor, practical experience, etc.

Edited by Mystere, 01 October 2018 - 01:04 PM.