44 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

There is no sense in giving IS tonnage handicap any longer. Especially since switching sides can be done in a minute with minimal penalty. All this extra tonnage is doing is to reinforce the notion that IS mechs are inferior, and that they should stay inferior.

Now we can debate and argue about the actual balance between IS and Clans until the cows go home, but the point is that there can be no true balancing as long as tonnage gap exists. Some of you might say IS mechs need tonnage difference as balance instead of tech balance, cause that's lore-friendly whatnot but the simple matter of fact is that such a balancing measure is utter horse dung when it comes to QP, cause QP is mixed, and it contains the overwhelming majority of MWO's player base. (and no, PGI has no plan of using battle value, so don't even mention that here)

So yeah PGI, get rid of tonnage difference, and base your faction tech/mech/weapon balancing on equal tonnage. QP will also benefit from it.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 October 2018 - 04:18 AM.

[Armored Yokai]

Has I.S even won an FP event?

[Acersecomic]

PGI's problem is sticking too much to lore differences instead of leaning more toward gameplay quality.
FFS, IS has same weight mechs but heavier weapons, shorter ranges, heavier engines, can't really use XL, larger and heavier equipment... Quirks do not balance that very well when it comes to IS vs Clan matches.

[El Bandito]

Armored Yokai, on 11 October 2018 - 12:37 AM, said:

Has I.S even won an FP event?

Against other IS factions.

But seriously, the fact that IS had never won a single Tuk event speaks for itself.

[MrXanthios]

I mean to me it's a very simple concept, the simpler the game is and the less various things are, the easier is the balance.

I really would love to see IS xl side torso loss survivability and 2 slot dhs. Majority of the posts here are about balance and complaining about it, but as soon as someone proposes to simplify things to help those poor developers at PGI, everyone is suddenly triggered and feel the need to defend all the differences between IS and clan, in the name of what?

I believe the developers at PGI are trying, they simply have too much stuff on their hands, and system is so complicated that what they are trying to do is just impossible.

[Phoenix 72]

Well, according to the lore, IS Mechs are supposed to be worse than Clan Mech, by a significant amount (at least in the part of the timeline we are currently in). This is why the Clans bartered away parts of their force to essentially fight with one arm tied behind their back.

The problem is that this makes for lousy gameplay. In any PVP scenario, people are never going to play the class / side / Mech that is perceived to be inferior. They want to be in the strongest position they can possibly be in to give them the best chance to win they can get.

[Eisenhorne]

The only thing preventing me from 100% getting behind this is the Piranha... it already makes some extremely nasty FP decks possible, because it's just so powerful for only 20 tons. With a full 265, you could do 2 MCII, a HBR, and a PIR... and that's way more firepower than anything the IS can bring.

If the PIR wasn't so amazing for the tonnage, and wasn't in basically every FP deck clanners use to allow them to front load harder, I'd agree.

[kapusta11]

So two Mad Cat IIs one Piranha and one EBJ/HBR/LBK. No thanks.

Balance the tech first then you can change drop deck tonnage.

[VonBruinwald]

Two problems:

1 - Clanners want to be OP
2 - The only way to make equal tonnage work is to buff IS/Nerf clans. Given that one dev goal is to bring TTK down, that means nerfing the clans... See: 1

So really there's one problem... Clanners.

[El Bandito]

kapusta11, on 11 October 2018 - 09:04 AM, said:

So two Mad Cat IIs one Piranha and one EBJ/HBR/LBK. No thanks.

Balance the tech first then you can change drop deck tonnage.

Doesn't matter which happens first, cause without evening the the tonnage we can't get clearer picture. Hell increase both to 265 tons for all I care. But make them even.

VonBruinwald, on 11 October 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Two problems:

1 - Clanners want to be OP
2 - The only way to make equal tonnage work is to buff IS/Nerf clans. Given that one dev goal is to bring TTK down, that means nerfing the clans... See: 1

So really there's one problem... Clanners.

As my goal is to end the reliance of quirk crutches on meta IS mechs, I have no issue with nerfing Clanners--as long as it is required--since IS quirks will be appropriately nerfed as well.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 October 2018 - 09:52 AM.

[Acersecomic]

MrXanthios, on 11 October 2018 - 07:59 AM, said:

I believe the developers at PGI are trying...

Mate, the problem is not that PGI is trying but there's too much, it's that PGI is not eve trying at all!
The game barely changed since it was in closed beta.
I honestly hope the main reason is development of MW5 but it most surely is not. This game does not evolve, does not balance meaningfuly, does nothing almost aside from release new mechs for profits. MINIMAL EFFORT TO KEEP THE LICENCE.
Compare it to Warframe.

[Spheroid]

This is a terrible, terrible idea. Clans are better because the weapons are more weight efficient. Your equality would result in aweful things like double or triple the current spread on LRMS, hugely nerfed ER PPCs, etc.

How are you going to address guass? Huge increase in cooldown? Huge reduction in velocity? This would make Clan mechs utter trash.

What's wrong with unequal drop deck tonnage? Why does everything have to be equal? Tonnage along with payout is one potential avenue for promoting dynamic balance in a properly functioning FP. If you insist on static tonnage this will no longer be a variable in future gameplay balancing mechanics.

Edited by Spheroid, 11 October 2018 - 12:30 PM.

[Sjorpha]

I've actually grown to like the asymmetry in FP with higher is tonnage balancing the better clan mechs. It works and creates a distinct experience for each faction. Yeah it sucks in comp and QP but I don't really care that much anymore about that. At this point I just want more events, more maps, fleshed out FP and hopefully a port to UE4.

[Tiewolf]

Your point why you want equal tonnage is valid. But I guess the consequence won't please many.
I would prefer a dynamic approach where clan could drop with the same tonnage but gets no to little rewards. If a clan player (or maybe IS too) decides to drop with a lower tonnage he gets better rewards. Risk-Reward balance. That that's even very lore friendly is just a coincidence. Maybe then even a game pugs vs. premade could get interesting again if the premade team risks a lot to get higher rewards.

[Eisenhorne]

Tiewolf, on 11 October 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

Your point why you want equal tonnage is valid. But I guess the consequence won't please many.
I would prefer a dynamic approach where clan could drop with the same tonnage but gets no to little rewards. If a clan player (or maybe IS too) decides to drop with a lower tonnage he gets better rewards. Risk-Reward balance. That that's even very lore friendly is just a coincidence. Maybe then even a game pugs vs. premade could get interesting again if the premade team risks a lot to get higher rewards.

This was suggested in the FP Suggestions thread, but I don't think PGI is in favor of it. I play with a premade group in FP a lot, and if we knew as a fact that our enemy wasn't another premade, we'd be glad to ton down for increased rewards. The problem is, if we decide to go seriously under tonned and end up against a 12 man of KCOM or something on the other side, we're fighting an uphill battle we would never have chosen to fight. They'd need to have some kind of indicator with "expected resistance" maybe. Like, it could take the average win/loss rate of each player on a team, and if one team has a significantly higher win rate, display a message to the higher rated team like, "Light enemy resistance expected", and to the lower rated team like, "Elite enemy presence detected". That way we'd know if we can ton down to risk going into a fight outgunned for higher pay.

Like I said though, PGI basically said no dice to that IIRC.

[VonBruinwald]

Tiewolf, on 11 October 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

I would prefer a dynamic approach where clan could drop with the same tonnage but gets no to little rewards. If a clan player (or maybe IS too) decides to drop with a lower tonnage he gets better rewards. Risk-Reward balance. That that's even very lore friendly is just a coincidence. Maybe then even a game pugs vs. premade could get interesting again if the premade team risks a lot to get higher rewards.

Until another Turk. at which point clans stack the tonnage and win... again...

[Monkey Lover]

You're having to make this in general because very few even look at the cw forum even less play cw

Any changes you make wouldn't effect me. So sure, why not lol Can we remove 1 bucket? Might start playing again if they do this.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 11 October 2018 - 02:19 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Darakor Stormwind, on 11 October 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

Well, according to the lore, IS Mechs are supposed to be worse than Clan Mech, by a significant amount (at least in the part of the timeline we are currently in). This is why the Clans bartered away parts of their force to essentially fight with one arm tied behind their back.

The problem is that this makes for lousy gameplay. In any PVP scenario, people are never going to play the class / side / Mech that is perceived to be inferior. They want to be in the strongest position they can possibly be in to give them the best chance to win they can get.

That LORE is stock mechs (NO MECHLAB), all the way around. Hell, even stock Star League mechs played by the Clanners were brought to a standstill during initial playtesting, which RESULTED in the current Clan Technology. Seriously, take a look at STOCK mechs, Clans outshines the IS by a wide margin, even when bidding down, until IS pulled too many tricks

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 11 October 2018 - 02:22 PM.

[lobsterhierarchy]

I mean for the short amount of time I’ve been playing, IS has actually been ridiculously good. HG/srmclops on siege, 6 erLL battlemasters on long range matches that are decidedly favored ironically toward IS, assassin spam, IS Lrm spam...the list goes on.

They should likely even it out imho because premade teams with communication and coordination beats whatever faces them if they are trueborn or freeborn scum

I’d be genuinely curious if PGI forced alpha/bravo/Charlie lance tonnage like in the lore on faction play, but it could turn quickly into a crapstorm of complaints lol

[BrunoSSace]

Clan mechs are still stronger. You cant say an ebonjag is equal to a thunderbolt? They can't bring the same firepower, or speed or cooling.
A Grasshoper, warhammer are more equal to an ebonjag and they are 5 tons heavier.

But the structure, the armor values the IS have? The Annihalor is a special case stop beating the dead horse. We can't use xls in our heavies and Assaults. So get over it.