48 replies to this topic

[Mad Dog Morgan]

Rocket launchers aren't worth slotting - could be for a couple reasons, but here's a couple hypotheses as to why they, among other spread weapons, suck dirt.

-Rocket launchers are fragging each other, aka projectile fratricide and not reaching their destination. This is a documented problem with other spread weapons

-Hit registration. Concurrent damage from X amount of sources on a component or multiple components is simply not registering, even with host-state rewind, or the server simply can't handle that many checks in a single tick.

They're utterly broken.

Edited by Mad Dog Morgan, 11 October 2018 - 07:17 PM.

[LordNothing]

short answer:
bad implementation and whining.

long answer:
they had a massive troll potential. people pointed this out in the pts. i was one of them. after sticking a bunch of rls into an archer and proceeding to instagib the first robot to enter my crosshair (it was a heavy or assault mech, i dont exactly remember what though) i felt that it was op and was a cheap way to circumvent ghost heat. it was going to lead to salt down the road.

i suggested they change the mechanics from single shot all at once to single shot per tube with rapid fire, higher damage, and no spread. such that multiples could stack ghost heat and force a shut down if you were careless while still being one use (in a sense) high dps (you could still dump all the rockets in a very short period of time). pgi instead gave it more spread and a min range. now its useless outside of solaris.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 October 2018 - 07:25 PM.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

That still doesn't explain the wonky hit registration.

[Prototelis]

Mad Dog Morgan, on 11 October 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

-Rocket launchers are fragging each other, aka projectile fratricide and not reaching their destination. This is a documented problem with other spread weapons

wut

[LordNothing]

Mad Dog Morgan, on 11 October 2018 - 07:23 PM, said:

That still doesn't explain the wonky hit registration.

been a problem in this game from day one. and pgi does not fix bugs.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 October 2018 - 07:26 PM.

[FupDup]

Mad Dog Morgan, on 11 October 2018 - 07:23 PM, said:

That still doesn't explain the wonky hit registration.

Hitreg is a broad problem, not a RL-specific problem.

Anyways, in general, people like me tried to tell other people and PGI that implementing single-use weapons would be inherently polarizing because they'd have to be strong enough to justify wasting tonnage on a consumable item but weak enough that they don't give Javelins the power to instagib assault mechs from the front.

They should've been either left out of the game or changed to be a multi-shot system with less damage per missile.

[El Bandito]

RLs shouldn't have been implemented in the first place. Waste of time.

[Wraith 1]

Haven't confirmed it in a match/lobby, but in the testing grounds the minimum range doesn't work properly. At 51 to 90ish meters, some percentage of rockets will simply bounce off like IS LRMs.

So many missiles fail at 51m that you're better off taking SRMs. At 90+m, there's no hope of an instakill even from the back, as the spread is wider than an Awesome's upper body.

Even in Solaris, they're usually not worth the heat they generate.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Wraith 1, on 11 October 2018 - 08:50 PM, said:

Haven't confirmed it in a match/lobby, but in the testing grounds the minimum range doesn't work properly. At 51 to 90ish meters, some percentage of rockets will simply bounce off like IS LRMs.

So many missiles fail at 51m that you're better off taking SRMs. At 90+m, there's no hope of an instakill even from the back, as the spread is wider than an Awesome's upper body.

Even in Solaris, they're usually not worth the heat they generate.

The range indicator under the reticle isn't exactly a reliable indicator of how far a projectile has to travel from your mech to theirs. Missiles could be farther or closer depending on hardpoint locations and enemy mech geometry.

[LordNothing]

Wraith 1, on 11 October 2018 - 08:50 PM, said:

Haven't confirmed it in a match/lobby, but in the testing grounds the minimum range doesn't work properly. At 51 to 90ish meters, some percentage of rockets will simply bounce off like IS LRMs.

So many missiles fail at 51m that you're better off taking SRMs. At 90+m, there's no hope of an instakill even from the back, as the spread is wider than an Awesome's upper body.

Even in Solaris, they're usually not worth the heat they generate.

they are ok for space fill. especially since you can get away running much less ammo than any other mode (you only need one, at most 2 kills if you play teams). like anywhere where you have an arm with a couple missile points, you can strip the armor and get a couple rls. just remember to use them first before the arm gets shot off. they are very good for testing mechs for weak points, fire the rl ct and shoot whatever part gets closest to red.

[Kaeb Odellas]

LordNothing, on 11 October 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

short answer:
bad implementation and whining.

long answer:
they had a massive troll potential. people pointed this out in the pts. i was one of them. after sticking a bunch of rls into an archer and proceeding to instagib the first robot to enter my crosshair (it was a heavy or assault mech, i dont exactly remember what though) i felt that it was op and was a cheap way to circumvent ghost heat. it was going to lead to salt down the road.

i suggested they change the mechanics from single shot all at once to single shot per tube with rapid fire, higher damage, and no spread. such that multiples could stack ghost heat and force a shut down if you were careless while still being one use (in a sense) high dps (you could still dump all the rockets in a very short period of time). pgi instead gave it more spread and a min range. now its useless outside of solaris.

They do have one use outside Solaris, and that's gimmicky troll light builds that can instagib heavies and assaults from behind. I've done that a couple of times with my 4 ML + 3 RL20 Osiris, which is hilarious and gross at the same time.

I also second the "rocket machine-gun" suggestion. Perhaps make them inferno rockets and have them generate heat as well?

[Moldur]

Nothing like a point blank with an LB-20X and 4xSRM-6 artemis without so much as a blink on the enemy's paper doll.

[Monkey Lover]

The reason is because we kept 1 shot killing Chris over and over during the beta

Edited by Monkey Lover, 11 October 2018 - 11:07 PM.

[Khobai]

Rocket Launchers wouldnt be that bad if there was a way to reload ammo in-game.

But without the ability to reload them theyre just not worth the tonnage/crits.

[Jay Leon Hart]

I like them in a GHR head, Florentine or the OSR-3D. Maybe I should start putting them on my RVNs, DRGs, TDRs & WHMs too...

[Wraith 1]

Kaeb Odellas, on 11 October 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

The range indicator under the reticle isn't exactly a reliable indicator of how far a projectile has to travel from your mech to theirs. Missiles could be farther or closer depending on hardpoint locations and enemy mech geometry.

I accounted for this. I picked a mech with the cockpit mounted further forward than the missile hardpoints, fired a single rack at a time, and gave a couple meters for margin of error. Even if I'm still messing something up, that's not great weapon design.

I prefer shotgun style launchers to machine gun style, but I'd take machine gun launchers if it meant removing the minimum range.

LordNothing, on 11 October 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

they are ok for space fill. especially since you can get away running much less ammo than any other mode (you only need one, at most 2 kills if you play teams). like anywhere where you have an arm with a couple missile points, you can strip the armor and get a couple rls. just remember to use them first before the arm gets shot off. they are very good for testing mechs for weak points, fire the rl ct and shoot whatever part gets closest to red.

Yeah, I do use them like that occasionally in Solaris and Scouting. It's fun and somewhat effective, I just think that even then it's generally more consistent to take more ammo, engine, heatsinks, etc. and just play normally - especially considering how important heat efficiency is in those modes.

[Nightbird]

If you shoot RACs into the air (i.e. should hit nothing), some of the shells will prematurely explode in mid-air.

This is the level of coding you should expect in this game.

[RickySpanish]

Nightbird, on 12 October 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

If you shoot RACs into the air (i.e. should hit nothing), some of the shells will prematurely explode in mid-air.

This is the level of coding you should expect in this game.

Man if only it were easy to code networked games.

[TELEFORCE]

I actually like the way RLs are implemented. When I have some spare missile slots and little tonnage left, I equip them and map them to a "Go Away!" button.

[Shadowomega1]

I run a pair or RL-20s to fill out space on my Bushwacker X1 and that sudden burst of 80 damage over a assaults torso is a life saver. Combined that with the rapid refire rate of my UAC 10 most assaults don't last long after a streak that hard.