437 replies to this topic

[Detergent II]

>Gets home from work
>Boots up MWO as I recently got back into it and having dumb fun with a quad HPPC Awesome
>Patch notes
>Anni nerfed again, Fafnir CT armor nerfed "We realize this is gonna **** over stealth armor which is already niche memes at best but lol", band-aid quirks


Annnnd... closing MWO... Maybe some nice Monster Hunter instead...

GG, PGI

Incremental changes
Little details

[Summin]

So I guess the plan is for clans to switch to ATMs now that Laser vomit has been nerfed into the ground?

These Heatsink changes are far too drastic of a change to allow for any decent balancing attempt. This patch is going to be a hot mess. Should have gone for the heatsink changes first, spent more time figuring out what's changed and then started balancing stuff in the normal way again.

Also fire the balancing team.
Cheers.

Edited by Summin, 12 October 2018 - 04:03 PM.

[Hiten Bongz]

Is this intended? If so, why?

InnerSphereNews, on 12 October 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

Heatsinks

• Heat capacity reduced to 0.75 (from 1.3)

Double Heatsinks

• Heat Capacity reduced to 0.5 (from 1.5)

Double heatsinks have 33% LESS capacity than single heatsinks? 3x reduction in capacity seems a bit...extreme. Meanwhile SHS isn't even a 2x cap reduction? How did we go from DHS providing a slight cap increase over SHS to a MASSIVE decrease in capacity instead? What in the...

I sincerely hope this is a typo. It doesn't really make any sense.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 12 October 2018 - 04:11 PM.

[Eisenhorne]

Summin, on 12 October 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

So I guess the plan is for clans to switch to ATMs now that Laser vomit has been nerfed into the ground?

These Heatsink changes are far too drastic of a change to allow for any decent balancing attempt. This patch is going to be a hot mess. Should have gone for the heatsink changes first, spent more time figuring out what's changed and then started balancing stuff in the normal way again.

Also fire the balancing team.
Cheers.

My plan is to switch exclusively to lurms. Massive buff to them, i'll never hit my heat cap ever again now. Thanks, PGI!

[process]

This is intended to be a shift from having large heat reservoirs to DPS. You won't necessarily need all that heat capacity unless you're one of those outlying laser boats.

I'm very excited to see how this plays out in 12v12. The PTS a while back was a blast.

[Tarogato]

Patch Notes, on 12 October 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

AWS-8Q: IS PPC HSL +1
AWS-9M: IS ER PPC HSL +1

Does the AWS-8Q quirk also apply to ERPPCs and HPPCs? Historically, I believe "PPC" quirks have also applied to ER, Heavy, and Light, except I think when it specifies "IS STD PPC" very explicitly.

[Fragosaurus Rex]

I feel dumb for holding out hope, however small, that this ship would turn around.

But these last few patches have, for me, cemented the fact that the balance team at PGI is so far out of the loop in regards to how their game operates and their dedicated playerbase's interests, as well as reveal their absolute lack of drive or capability to realign themselves with those aforementioned interests.

I really did hope I'd soon be able to take the game back up as heavily as I once dead. However, it seems as if balance is set to continue spiraling down this path. I scarcely see a game so greatly sacrifice overall balance and enjoyment for the sake of lore and the lowest denominator of players (who also happen to be PGI's largest source of income).

[Sereglach]

I find it extremely aggravating and disappointing for PGI to basically admit, "Players thought PTS 2.1 was awesome, and we thought PTS 2.1 was awesome . . . except for a few outlier weapons. So, rather than address those weapons, we're going to only go halfway towards PTS 2.1 and fail to meet our design goals." Yeah . . . great . . . extremely disappointing. You even admitted that the weapons with issues were those with huge ghost heat penalties, like the AC/20. The outcry in the heat scale roadmap thread and huge amounts of thorough analysis wasn't enough?

Also, as I pointed out on the PTS threads, you've got Flamergeddon 2.0 coming. Sure, it won't be as extreme as PTS 2.1, but it's still coming; and the math was already presented to you. The first time I didn't take part, but this time I'm considering abusing the hell out of it just as a big "I told you so." Once people figure it out they're going to abuse it, too. I've already said so many times how fixed flat values are the way to go and given some rather reasonable values as starting points that are controllable and open for easy tuning. 0.8 - 1.2 DPS, 1.5 - 2.0 Heat DPS, and 1.0 - 1.5 HPS is a great range to start that makes it extremely manageable and fixes literally ALL of the problems with the weapon system under any heat system.

Disappointed . . . so frigging disappointed . . . I was going to reward PGI with the obvious savior of the classics after the announcement of the Warhammer IIC . . . but not now. I was actually considering spending money on MWO in spite of Flamers still being in an absolutely horrid place . . . but not now. Maybe if all of this fixed (hopefully) . . . but not now.

[KingCobra]

I guess it time to say IDK nothing about MWO excites me enough to pay into it anymore or for that matter play it 24/7 MWO has become WOT totally and I cant stand WOT gameplay.

[Rhialto]

Another patch and still not fixed:



Tell me you have no intention to fix this... it's been reported for months.

[NUMBERZero1032]

Chris Lowrey, on 12 October 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

The AWS's stocky profiles, The Nightstar's wide convergence in the dual gauss / ppc setup, and the HBK-IIC, while popular in other configurations, will find weilding dual UAC/20's to be a challenge unless they are willing to skimp on Armor, Ammo, or speed. For now, we are only going with these chassis' to see what impact access to these quirks have on them.

Man, you have LBX-20's that can be fired in pairs without ghost heat, and it's great. But it's not the destroyer of worlds. Dual UAC/20 HBK isn't going to be much different. We don't understand why LBX is ok, but AC is not.

That kind of leads me to another thing. Did you know that firing one AC/20 and two Snub PPC's generates more heat than dual AC/20's to do the same damage? Yeah there's something wrong there.

Also 11 crit slot LBX-20's on the IS is such a pain, and there's not even any crit-sharing. There's so many cool builds that would benefit from 10 crit slot LBX-20's. I mean, look at the King Crab KGC-005. Made in 3062, it has dual LBX-20's in the arms. Why can't I build that? But a Mad Cat MkII, a 90 ton platform, can fit two LBX-20's in the arms, even a MCII-B which has upper and lower arm actuators for full arm movement. Why not a 100 ton IS platform tho

Edited by NUMBERZero1032, 12 October 2018 - 04:17 PM.

[MaoutheGreat]

So these mechs that are getting armor nerfs are based on a 4v4 game mode, when 3 out 4 of the mechs are used in 12v12 game modes, correct? So if we see a down turn in performances on these nerfed mechs will we be getting the armor quirks back on them? Especially since one of them is for MC only.

[Chris Lowrey]

Tarogato, on 12 October 2018 - 04:09 PM, said:

Does the AWS-8Q quirk also apply to ERPPCs and HPPCs? Historically, I believe "PPC" quirks have also applied to ER, Heavy, and Light, except I think when it specifies "IS STD PPC" very explicitly.

AWS-8Q is explicitly for the standard PPC, AWS-9M is explicitly for the Inner Sphere ER PPC.

[Detergent II]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 12 October 2018 - 11:17 PM.
image included inappropriate language

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 12 October 2018 - 11:16 PM.
unconstructive

[Y E O N N E]

Chris Lowrey, on 12 October 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

Just because a 'Mech has access to certain loadouts in the fiction does not immediately guarantee this quirk assignment. For this opening pass, the 'Mechs that have been chosen are ones that come with built in drawbacks to attempting to utilize the loadouts.

The AWS's stocky profiles, The Nightstar's wide convergence in the dual gauss / ppc setup, and the HBK-IIC, while popular in other configurations, will find weilding dual UAC/20's to be a challenge unless they are willing to skimp on Armor, Ammo, or speed. For now, we are only going with these chassis' to see what impact access to these quirks have on them.

Naturally, other 'Mechs such as the Marauder Bounty Hunter, King Crabs, and others are up for consideration of having this quirk included, but we will only provide this quirk if we feel that it will not disrupt balance in other ways. For now, we will monitor how far this quirk moves the dial on the 'Mechs that it has been assigned to, and we will consider opening it up to other 'Mechs at a later time depending on how far the dial gets moved on this batch.

Anything that currently wields dual 20s underperforms. Anything that can wield dual 20s and wield dual HGauss would still be better off with the HGauss; 20s don't have the range or the velocity, their only saving grace is that they allow LFEs when torso-equipped.

That said, some suggestions to receive this HSL quirk for your future consideration:

• NSR-9S: UAC/20 +1
  
• NSR-10P: ERPPC +1
  
• KGC-000: AC/20 +1
  
• KGC-0000: AC/20 +1
  
• KGC-000B: AC/20 +1
  
• FNR-6U: UAC/20 +1

I would also suggest, and this isn't strictly related to the stock loadout, that the NSR-9P get a UAC/10 +1 HSL quirk. This would give the NSR a UAC/30 build that weighs 39 tons, comparable to the 34 ton UAC/30 build on the MCII-B, and the performance would be reasonably comparable on paper.

That said, I am disappointed you specified ERPPC on the 9J; a 40 PPFLD shot is already something you can easily manage on any Nightstar, doing it with Gauss doesn't make it any better and better is what that entire chassis needs when it comes to firepower. 40 PPFLD is 75-tonner firepower, and as a 95-ton 'Mech it needs to deal more than that to be worth something.

[NUMBERZero1032]

If this game were 8v8, balance might actually matter a little more.

[ARM32]

Maybe, it's just a time to add jihad era weapons? Other way - game lost fun...

[NUMBERZero1032]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 October 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

That said, some suggestions to receive this HSL quirk for your future consideration:

• NSR-9S: UAC/20 +1
  
• NSR-10P: ERPPC +1
  
• KGC-000: AC/20 +1
  
• KGC-0000: AC/20 +1
  
• KGC-000B: AC/20 +1
  
• FNR-6U: UAC/20 +1

Yeah! Don't forget the FNR-5E as well. That comes with a UAC/20 cooldown quirk too.

[Arkhangel]

For the guys whining about heatsinks, doubles have actually ALWAYS had worse capacity than singles, they just bleed heat off faster. they better at dissipation, not capacity.

Them being nerf capacity wise is basically a wakeup call to all you guys who sit back and constantly ERLL Snipe, whereas it's a lot more helpful for mid-close-range fighters who need to keep up a continuous barrage of fire rather than one massive burst.

honestly i think most of you are whining because you don't want to actually have facetime with your enemies. Mechs have armor, mobility and speed for a reason, people. They're not meant to be stationary turrets.