437 replies to this topic

[Ulvar]

there are too many lrms in he game already and now they get even better, makes sense.

also dhs nerfs and heat treshold reduction seems way too extreme. haven't you learned by now that there are better tools for proper balancing than a giant sledgehammer?

this patch is immature, in big parts untested and looks like a early alpha. it is a big experiment with paying customers as testers. i have the strong feeling that there will be a big shitstorm when this goes live.

Edited by Ulvar, 14 October 2018 - 06:37 AM.

[HammerMaster]

How does making lrm better in Los and continue to suck out of Los mean more lrm spam/shame/hate?
Does not compute.
This is a good thing WE ASKED FOR!

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

Quote

Edited by ReichKaiser, Yesterday, 04:40 AM.

how does a moderator have such an offensive name?

if a player was named AntiFa you would have changed it to mechwarrior 12345....

Edited by Gorantir, 14 October 2018 - 07:11 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Commander James Raynor, on 14 October 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

I just don't want the issue to get lost on so many posts: the CMPL nerf doesn't make sense. This change would make it the first weapon (outside the SRMs, which cost a lot more tonnage for the IS side) to have lower DPS on the clan side, besides having less DPH. That, paired with the higher IS quirks across the table makes the CMPL just a bad weapon to mount.

Besides that, you're removing yet one more brawling option.

Listen: JUST DON'T DO IT.

And another thing: these are pretty big changes on the energy weapons damage without compensating with CD or heat. These weapons are not so good right now that they need or can take a merf like that without going into the useless side. I get that you're trying to adress the alpha gameplay, but simply cutting the damage lowers the DPS and DPH too.

Again: DON'T DO IT.

If the PTS 2.1 is anything to go by, and it was pretty similar to this patch, cMPLs actually become really powerful with these changes. This is a huge increase in clan heat dissipation, so energy weapons that cycles faster become less heat capped, this makes the cMPL really good.

[Steel Raven]

HammerMaster, on 14 October 2018 - 04:40 AM, said:

ECM is too powerful for it's size/tonnage. Grants abilities outside it's scope. And had driven the meta by what mechs it can be mounted on. ANY change to bring it back in line with what it's specced by core ruleset is welcome.

You can already counter ECM with TAG, BAP, UAVs and/or another ECM. The current nerf will kill the ECM for many considering you need to invest heavily into the Skill nodes to optimize it and you can get the same results breaking locks by breaking line with less skill point by investment Radar Deprivation.

I'm playing the tabletop today, I love the tabletop but it was never meant to emulate a shooter/simulator.

[HammerMaster]

Steel Raven, on 14 October 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

You can already counter ECM with TAG, BAP, UAVs and/or another ECM. The current nerf will kill the ECM for many considering you need to invest heavily into the Skill nodes to optimize it and you can get the same results breaking locks by breaking line with less skill point by investment Radar Deprivation.

I'm playing the tabletop today, I love the tabletop but it was never meant to emulate a shooter/simulator.

IF YOU WANT NULL SIGNATURE SYSTEM, MOUNT IT!
http://www.sarna.net...ignature_System

[dr3dnought]

Gorantir, on 14 October 2018 - 06:54 AM, said:

how does a moderator have such an offensive name?

if a player was named AntiFa you would have changed it to mechwarrior 12345....

A. That's not a mod

B. Offensive how? https://en.wikipedia...iki/Kaiserreich

C. Make an alt called AntiFa and see if it gets changed.

Edited by dr3dnought, 14 October 2018 - 11:09 AM.

[Aldodrem]

I can't even read these notes after the incompetence of the heat sink changes and the PGI line of thought.

Quote

Let's change heatsink values, we know that stealth armour, flamers and Heat Skill Tree will be affected but we aren't sure how.


Why not just make everyone play a broken a game so we can learn how to fix our patch that broke those things.

Common sense would dictate you would know those things are affected and than you would know to what extent they are affected and would remedy that WHEN the patch goes out & not leaving it broken while the player base guinea pigs the fixes for it.

Edited by Aldodrem, 14 October 2018 - 11:13 AM.

[Gojira Goth I-HOP Mecrenary]

So Never? Cool. Just killed any use for the Pirates Bane, Commando and Raven.

[Buenaventura]

Solaris rewards comparison, changes from Season 1 to Season 2 (no table (can't seem to do these in this editor)):
1st: +250.000 GXP, -1 warhorn
2nd: +225.000 GXP, -1 warhorn
3rd: +200.000 GXP, -1 warhorn
top10: +150.000 GXP
top25: +100.000 GXP
top100: +80.000 GXP
top500: -185.000 GXP
top1000: -100.000 GXP
top2500: -40.000 GXP
top5000: -10.000 GXP
top10000: -5.000 GXP

Announcing the rewards at the start of a new Season would be best I think, you can't really do something for your placement now that the mode is deserted.
And change the queue at least for 1vs1, so that you can queue in multiple divisions at once. Map selection would then need to show your mech though.

[Athom83]

dr3dnought, on 14 October 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

ECM lights should be difficult to lock with streaks because once you do it's a no-aim one-shot kill.

I might consider SSRM's 'niche' as a light killer to be ok if there were anti-entire-weight-class weapons for the other weight classes. Even then it would be horrible balance but at least lights wouldn't be singled out.

Eh, Pulse lasers are anti-medium, MRMs and RACs are anti heavy, and Ultra 20s are anti assault.

Ulvar, on 14 October 2018 - 05:43 AM, said:

also dhs nerfs and heat treshold reduction seems way too extreme. haven't you learned by now that there are better tools for proper balancing than a giant sledgehammer?

Actually they were buffed. Sure the capacity went down but their dissipation went up massively and every DHS is now an actual DHS instead of just the ones in the engine.

[Athom83]

Gorantir, on 14 October 2018 - 06:54 AM, said:

how does a moderator have such an offensive name?
if a player was named AntiFa you would have changed it to mechwarrior 12345....

Except there were more Reichs than the 3rd one? And that a Kaiser is something completely different than what you're thinking it is? Its literally German for "Emperor", like Tsar, having been used since the 10th century.

[dr3dnought]

Athom83, on 14 October 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

Eh, Pulse lasers are anti-medium, MRMs and RACs are anti heavy, and Ultra 20s are anti assault.

Streaks: Negate lights only advantages (high speed and small size) for a no-aim one-shot kill, and are almost useless against other weight classes.

Pulse lasers do not one-shot mediums, MRMs and RACs do not one-shot heavies, UAC20s do not one-shot assaults. All of those weapons require aim and are effective against other weight classes as well.

[Sevronis]

Despite every patch notes I've seen since Closed Beta being flooded with negative comments and complaints, when I play the changes don't ever seem that bad to me. I doubt these will either for me. Maybe it's because I don't normally build with min/maxing in mind, or fire 50 (yes, exaggerating) lasers at once at all times, or whatever 'optimized builds' many players use all the time. I just use what I like to use, and it's worked for me. Hell, I enjoyed the stock mode tournament, unlike most on the forums it seems. The kind of stuff everyone wants in a perfect, balanced world will most likely never happen, and if it does, I'm sure there will be complaints about those too. I don't pretend to know what happens on the developers' side, or what they see and know. If you think you can improve PGI, then try to apply and work there. Then the rest of us and you, will see if what people think, is actually happening. I just want to have fun running around in big, stompy, mechs and blow up other ones.

Though, I would like to see more improvement to Solaris and Faction Play to get more playing those modes. I guess better exclusive rewards may help that. Like larger MC incentives for holding planets, or being able to use unit funds in FP for planet defense upgrades or other strategic options (I've heard many times that MRBC league plays out how FP should have been, could try that?). Maybe even a % chance for each pilot to salvage a random destroyed mech (cbill variants only of course) to sell or maybe even repair at cost for an empty chassis to use (for a little cheaper than buying a new stock one). I don't know. Right now the rewards are just Cbills and XP, which can be obtained in QP and at a faster rate. For the time a FP match can take, something more than those for pilots who participate may give more incentive to play it. As for Solaris, I just want 1 division for each weight class (could lower wait times) and a 12 mech FFA mode (in addition to 1v1 and 2v2 options).

Edited by Sevronis, 14 October 2018 - 01:27 PM.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

My first positive patch of the year... if only because it fixed some major issues introduced by the previous patch

Although I'm in favor of increasing armor instead of reducing it : No matter which side you're on, it's annoying to have your fresh mech die to ~2 pinpoint laser alphas to your center torso...

Next step : If only you could give those lasers less pinpoint damage, and perhaps add (a lot of) pinpoint nodes to the Skill Tree to make up for it, then you wouldn't have to keep nerfing laser weapons all year long.

[NocturnalBeast]

I am even more happy that I did not spend any money on the Warhammer IIC now.

[Arkansas6A]

I believe there is far more salt in this thread than is warranted.

This patch's heat changes are a step in the direction of the PTS 2.1. Which is also a nudge towards 2.0. It will shave a bit off the laser vomit alphas. They'll be able to vomit more often. They'll still be able to pop medium mech's torsos in a single hit. Not much of a change, here, but perhaps a step in the right direction.

ATM buff? LRMs and ATMs are already annoying. Now ATM's will be slightly more annoying. Run for cover. Damn near everyone despises Polar Lurmlands for a reason. Not much to see here. Carry on.

Armor nerfs? Well...maybe? I for one would hold off a bit to see how things shape up as a whole, but, meh. This patch could very well reduce TTK's a bit as is. That is not a good thing.

[The Boneshaman]

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Well, I'll come back for an hour or two and play with the Champion, heat changes should be fun as it should give a good punch to the nads of some of the less optimized abusive laser vomit builds, and the laser nerfs should help reign in some of the laser vomit ability to delete things. Not perfect, but, step towards a better place in balance for the most part. We really don't need that much capacity, lots of capacity gives room for high alphas with low time to smack back. Break it into smaller peaks more time to shoot back at them, not as bad, chance to fight, retreat, torso twist, you know, have skill matter instead of get deleted by 3 mechs cresting at a bad time for you. Will it make ballistics better? Sure, but, boy all that tonnage and slots tied up in the weapons, and ammo and only so many shots for the gun is a damn fantastic trade off compared to infinite 70+ damage alphas being the norm, get unlucky to have 2-3 people with those to come around a corner, boom, dead mech or might as well be.

The ATM change I am not happy about, but, at least ECM now turns ARTEMIS off like it should, so hopefully it works on ATM's as well as LRM's so it is a bit more useful. IDK, I like where this patch is going, it is bringing quirks back to giving flavor to mechs instead of bandaids, it's making ECM interact with things more how it should (still a ways from where it should be, but, that isn't here or there). Still feel right direction overall.

[Sereglach]

Ok, for poeple out there saying that there's just a bunch of negative vitriol and nothing else, they seem to be missing the point of a number of the posts which are being critical of PGI. Granted, I know some of the responses are sarcasm, but there are also people who seem to legitimately not understand why PGI is getting so much negative critique, particularly from those of us who did run the PTS and provided feedback.

First and foremost: PGI has decided, despite the almost universally positive feedback over PTS 2.1 (not subjective, completely objective, just go look at the PTS feedback section), they decided to NOT implement PTS 2.1 and instead implement something almost entirely different. While this patch's heat system changes are somewhat positive movement in the right direction for MWO's needs, what PGI has done is have the perfect answer in hand, and decide that they're not going to use that answer. It was even discussed at great length, how these changes are not going to have the results or meet the objectives that PGI desired in the PTS runs, when PGI released their post-PTS roadmap; and they refused to acknowledge any of it. In fact, the PGI conversation in that thread pretty much stopped once the player base presented a hoarde of evidence that their intended changes (this patch) would NOT achieve what MWO needs.

The point here is that PGI had something on PTS that did everything PGI and the Community wanted, it fully met all objectives of the PTS series, and PGI refuses to use it. Rather than tune for outliers they just threw PTS 2.1 out.

Secondly: PGI are moving forward with this patch when they know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that there are going to be gamebreaking issues within this patch. Flamers are going to be able to stunlock mechs like no tomorrow, and PGI knows it. Stealth Armor is going to become broken because mechs won't have the capacity to go without cooling long enough to be viable, and PGI knows it. There are facets of the skill system that will be broken and functioning at much weaker levels than they're supposed to, and PGI knows it.

The point here is that PGI is rushing out a patch with known issues that will be critically debilitating to the game, and they KNOW IT, but they're not postponing the patch until those issues can be properly resolved. Flaws and known issues that are this extreme should be resolved before pushing the patch.