69 replies to this topic

[Brizna]

I am still trying to make sense of the notes, but imo these changes are huge buff for external double heat sinks which is going to make clan laser vomit in heavier mechs really sustainable in exchange of not so much given there's a flat 50 heat threshold.

Also WHK-Prime with 4xERPPC can be a monster.

[Elizander]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 12 October 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

My only question about the heat scale limit quirk is this:

Why no dual AC20 love for the King Crab?

The HBK-IIC got its stock dual UAC20s; the AWS-8Q got its stock triple PPCs... but alas, poor Crabby, thou still lackest thy boom.

I'm hoping they add that for one of the KCs in a future patch. I'm guessing they didn't want to go big on the first pass.

[SFC174]

El Bandito, on 13 October 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

And what would those be? CMPL optimum range is still better than AC20, SRM, IS SSRM, IS MPL, IS ML optimum range.

And have you actually calculated just how much reduction will Clan alphas take post patch? Does the new heat value actually overheat 2xHLL+6xCERML combo? Cause if not...

I don't care if the new heat value overheats 2HLL+6ERML. I wasn't in favor of that to begin with. I advocated -2 dmg HLL and -1 dmg ERML with proportional heat reductions and be done with it. No need to screw with ghost heat, dissipation, etc.

As it stands, the 64 pt alpha 2xHLL and 4xERML laser gets a 6 pt reduction - over 9%. The 2+6 combo gets a 7 pt reduction - almost 9%. The funny thing to me is that the big scary deathstrike 94 pt alpha (you know the one PGI paraded as the reason things had to change) only drops by 3 dmg, a little over 3%. While an 8 MPL HBK-IIC-A loses 7%.

I don't like a lot about the changes, but all I'm asking PGI for now is to stop nerfing the damn Clan MPL. Most people agreed that dmg reductions on the HLL and ERML made sense. They should have stuck with that and seen what happened. Instead we also nerf ERLL and screw with the whole heat system. Small changes. SMALL changes!

[El Bandito]

SFC174, on 13 October 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

I don't care if the new heat value overheats 2HLL+6ERML. I wasn't in favor of that to begin with. I advocated -2 dmg HLL and -1 dmg ERML with proportional heat reductions and be done with it. No need to screw with ghost heat, dissipation, etc.

As it stands, the 64 pt alpha 2xHLL and 4xERML laser gets a 6 pt reduction - over 9%. The 2+6 combo gets a 7 pt reduction - almost 9%. The funny thing to me is that the big scary deathstrike 94 pt alpha (you know the one PGI paraded as the reason things had to change) only drops by 3 dmg, a little over 3%. While an 8 MPL HBK-IIC-A loses 7%.

I don't like a lot about the changes, but all I'm asking PGI for now is to stop nerfing the damn Clan MPL. Most people agreed that dmg reductions on the HLL and ERML made sense. They should have stuck with that and seen what happened. Instead we also nerf ERLL and screw with the whole heat system. Small changes. SMALL changes!

So? All of that is in line with PGI's plan of reducing Clan alphas. In return the new DHS value is gonna give crazy sustain to energy Clan mechs, especially CMPL mechs, since they can boat 24+ DHS, unlike IS mechs. You'll see what I mean once the patch hits. Any mech that has over 20 DHS--mostly Clan mechs--are gonna feel like they have the cooling capacity of 30 DHS!

Edited by El Bandito, 13 October 2018 - 08:02 AM.

[Joshua McEvedy]

The nerfs are pure "ripple effect" garbage and will speed up the exodus from the game.

Thanks Chris!

[MrXanthios]

So if I read the patch notes right, a mech like the trebuchet 7M with double mrm30 and only the engine heatsinks, should profit both in terms of heat capacity and heat dissipation, right?

And also I wanted to ask a clarification about this point:

No more division between engine and externally based heat sinks. All dissipation rates are now at a consistent 0.22 per-heat sink.

Right now what is the dissipation rates of an engine heatsink? Is it already 0.22?

Edited by MrXanthios, 13 October 2018 - 08:25 AM.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Full Meta Jacket, on 13 October 2018 - 05:20 AM, said:

My favourite part is that they are making the heat changes ... and just blandly stating that they know the Heat Skill Nodes and Stealth Armor will be broken.

THIS^^^^^^

[FireStoat]

El Bandito, on 13 October 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

So? All of that is in line with PGI's plan of reducing Clan alphas. In return the new DHS value is gonna give crazy sustain to energy Clan mechs, especially CMPL mechs, since they can boat 24+ DHS, unlike IS mechs. You'll see what I mean once the patch hits. Any mech that has over 20 DHS--mostly Clan mechs--are gonna feel like they have the cooling capacity of 30 DHS!

I tried out both versions of the Test Server with the heat scale change using a Marauder IIC armed with the large pulse x2, er medium laser x5 build and compared it to the live server at the time. On live, I can alpha twice and then continue firing the large pulse if pressed to without having a cooling issue. On the test server, I could barely alpha once and while the cooling was rapid, doing a back to back alpha of all weapons was out of the question.
This forced me to reconfigure the mech to use medium pulse for close ranged fighting and a pair of PPCs or something similar, allowing me to shoot all day long at either long range or close range, but not with all weapons. I was prepared to live with this until...

I tested out the Black Lanner, Ice Ferret, Arctic Cheetah, and Viper. These mechs got kneecapped, hard. I mean, really hard. They were simply unplayable with any kind of laser configuration that made sense because they can't add extra heat sinks in most cases. Or at least, not enough to make a difference. With the Operations tree being bugged not to help at all, these mechs were screwed, and probably still will be on Tuesday.

[Y E O N N E]

MrXanthios, on 13 October 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

And also I wanted to ask a clarification about this point:

No more division between engine and externally based heat sinks. All dissipation rates are now at a consistent 0.22 per-heat sink.

Right now what is the dissipation rates of an engine heatsink? Is it already 0.22?

In-engine are currently 0.2, externals are 0.15.

[El Bandito]

FireStoat, on 13 October 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

I tested out the Black Lanner, Ice Ferret, Arctic Cheetah, and Viper. These mechs got kneecapped, hard. I mean, really hard. They were simply unplayable with any kind of laser configuration that made sense because they can't add extra heat sinks in most cases. Or at least, not enough to make a difference. With the Operations tree being bugged not to help at all, these mechs were screwed, and probably still will be on Tuesday.

Those mechs are boned, but mechs like Hellbringer, EBJ, MAD-IIC are gonna have much better sustain. And those are the meta Clan mechs.

[Wing 0]

Ill be quite honest. Not very happy with the changes being called for by PGI.. Changes like these are whats preventing the game from getting new blood from playing the game. The amount of balance changes are going from bad to worse. There are other mechs that need nerfing and they didn't get them. Is PGI becoming more stupid because they really don't play the game? Lets be honest.

Ive never seen a single MFer from PGI playing the game period. No were not including SeanLang or Bombadil. They don't count. It has been made evident no matter what they say to deny it. PGI should've been working on patches that involved polishing and optimizations but they don't seem to know how to do that. They better start doing it soon or were going to have more people leaving the game and that is BAD for business. That is when PGI will be called out for soon and they will not like it.

This patch to me is an embarrassment and needs to be taken back to the drawing board.

[KingCobra]

The nerfing and buffing of weapons has become so redundant and absurd over the years I'm surprised anyone still plays this game still to be honest I would not care how much they screw up the balance of weapons if they just did 2 things fix the armor to work properly on all mechs as in durability and actually deflecting any damage from all the OP Alpha weapons combinations and fix the AMS to take down missiles properly.

MWO has become like WOT now almost 1 shot kills and rinse and repeat which just drives many old and new players away from this game.

Plus the fact you buy a new mech or bundle and they nerf it into the ground total waste of money.
RIP MWO

Edited by KingCobra, 13 October 2018 - 09:19 AM.

[OmniFail]

So since I am so sick and tired of the way PGI has handled things I would like to make a two comments.

1# I think that if I were to buy MW5 the game would reach a state where it is in perma balance mode like MWO has been for the last five years. I will not buy the new game because I no longer wish to finically support the current balance team because they are bad and make me miserable.

2# Because the changes to the LRM’s have made me super unhappy and PGI’s insistence at gamer coddling in regards to this feature. I would like to say …

“Oh look Black Ops 4, So Shinny”

So long and thanks for all the patches.

[thievingmagpi]

I know for a fact I won't be buying mw5

[Dogstar]

Same here, there's no way this company can make a decent single player mech game, it'll be minimally viable all over again and then they'll expect the community (if there's any left!) to fix it with mods.

[Roughneck45]

lol, you guys never disappoint.

I'm looking forward to trying it out on live. If my EBJ overheats after two shots I'll consider it a success. Glad Artemis is getting a buff too. Kinda wish the heatscale quirks for the awesome were all PPC types though.

Edited by Roughneck45, 13 October 2018 - 01:23 PM.

[Bushmaster0]

Full Meta Jacket, on 13 October 2018 - 05:20 AM, said:

My favourite part is that they are making the heat changes ... and just blandly stating that they know the Heat Skill Nodes and Stealth Armor will be broken.

It's like the opposite of development. Yet they expect us to keep buying Mech Packs...?!

and they will use data after the patch to eventually make more "balance changes", even though that data will be tainted because of the bug with the heat skill nodes that they know exists. This is why I have ZERO confidence in PGI. They are constantly using flawed data to make changes to the game.

[Viking Yelling]

Quote

ECM design notes: The recent removal of the ARTEMIS loophole, the constriction of the weapon lock angle, as well as the recent buff to ECM range has made ECM a low tonnage item have all contributed in hampering the use of lock on weapons, even in direct fire situations. With this change, we want to provide Lock-on weapon users with a more direct counter-play option against opponents under ECM provided they are willing to expose themselves to acquire their own locks, while still continuing to hamper indirect fire. This will also make it to where ECM does not make Streak and ATM launchers so difficult to utilize against targets within LOS and under ECM at close ranges. Although it should still be noted that ECM will counter their ability to lock onto targets if an ECM 'Mech puts an opponent into a low-signal state.

I though that was why TAG use to flat counter and disable ECM. I mean, since the recent events, I'm convinced Tag doesnt do anything. the only thing that counters ECM's now massive area of effect is BAP or an ECMs counter mode. Throw in sensors skill nodes and it's ******* ridiculous.

Quote

Laser Design notes: The core goal of the PTS series was to find an acceptable way to bring Clan laser weaponry into closer parity with their Inner Sphere counterparts.

Glad they admit it. and they even admit they have no idea what they are doing.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

KingCobra, on 13 October 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

The nerfing and buffing of weapons has become so redundant and absurd over the years I'm surprised anyone still plays this game still to be honest I would not care how much they screw up the balance of weapons if they just did 2 things fix the armor to work properly on all mechs as in durability and actually deflecting any damage from all the OP Alpha weapons combinations and fix the AMS to take down missiles properly.

MWO has become like WOT now almost 1 shot kills and rinse and repeat which just drives many old and new players away from this game.

Plus the fact you buy a new mech or bundle and they nerf it into the ground total waste of money.
RIP MWO

Wait, WOT is bad because of 1 shot kills? Pretty sure it was bad because it wasn't as war thunder is better tank game. Tank games with hit points scare me. MWO is most certainly the WOT mech game.

[Christophe Ivanov]

Hey Folks!
Something tells me PGI is doing this so when the new MW5 comes out, it will look so great compared to MWO that everyone will migrate to this new game. Marketing 101? Eh?!??