61 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Now, I'm not pushing for this change, rather I'm just curious.

What if Gauss Rifle -- and variants, were allowed to fire more than just 2 weapons at the same time? Yes we're looking at potentially 4 Gauss Rifles at the same time -- buuuut, the Gauss Rifles will gain heat penalty when firing more than 1. That means if you fire two, or more, you hit ghost-heat.

I mean looking at Gauss-Vomit meta, it's the heat that what made gauss-rifles problematic and meta. Mainly because you can just keep shooting when you are hot, because the Gauss is practically heatless. So why not make it not heatless? That being said it would be completely against the spirit of the weapon.

So my idea is make it heatless only when firing one at a time, at least if you don't want any heat, that means you have to partition your shots and expose yourself further. As to how much heat, I honestly don't know, it probably needs to be hotter than the PPC heatpenalty due to lower base heat.

As to why allow up to 4 gauss rifle at once -- well it's not heatless anymore, and yes that's 60 PPFLD, but we're looking at really slow mechs like Anni, Direwolf, or Kodiak to do this, and they won't have good speed and/or ammo capacity for it, hell the IS has the short end of the stick cause they have heavier and larger Gauss.

Honestly though, I don't know what it will do with the current meta. I'm just curious.

MATHS:


"heatpenalty": 50, (Assuming)
"heatPenaltyID": 1,
"minheatpenaltylevel": 1,

So Penalty = (Base Heat x Penalty x Multiplier)

GR
Firing 2 = (1 x 50 x 0.08) = 4 -> 2 + 4 = 6 total heat.
Firing 3 = (1 x 50 x 0.18) = 9 -> 3 + 9 = 12 total heat.
Firing 4 = (1 x 50 x 0.30) = 15 -> 4 + 15 = 19 total heat.

HGR
Firing 2 = (2 x 50 x 0.08) = 8 -> 4 + 8 = 12 total heat.
Firing 3 = (2 x 50 x 0.18) = 18 -> 6 + 18 = 24 total heat.
Firing 4 = (2 x 50 x 0.30) = 30 -> 8 + 30 = 38 total heat.

LGR
Firing 2 = (0.55 x 50 x 0.08) = 2.2 -> 1.1 + 2.2 = 3.3 total heat.
Firing 3 = (0.55 x 50 x 0.18) = 4.95 -> 1.65 + 4.95 = 6.6 total heat.
Firing 4 = (0.55 x 50 x 0.30) = 8.25 -> 2.2 + 8.25 = 10.45 total heat.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 30 October 2018 - 09:28 AM.

[Acersecomic]

No. 3 Gauss = 45 alpha at an insane range compared to 50 Heavy Gauss alpha at 220 range, and it would also beat the purpose of having to downgrade to a Standard Engine in order to fit that kind of instand pixel accurate alpha.

[McGoat]

Sulla is a better troll.

[LordNothing]

i thought of a ghost charge mechanic. instead of being limited by how many you can fire, instead stack charge time and apply a penalty based on how many gauss are used. so you can run 2 hgauss and 2 gauss on a anihilator but it would take 2+ seconds to charge. charge times would also get a buff so single gun builds would have very short charge times, but stacked guns would take significantly longer.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 October 2018 - 09:06 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Acersecomic, on 30 October 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

No. 3 Gauss = 45 alpha at an insane range compared to 50 Heavy Gauss alpha at 220 range, and it would also beat the purpose of having to downgrade to a Standard Engine in order to fit that kind of instand pixel accurate alpha.

Lol:

ANH-1A

[Dogstar]

Once again - just no. Please stop with the suggestions.

Ghost Heat is a bad mechanism in the first place. If you want to penalise boating Gauss rifles then a much better solution would be to add the charge up time together and add a HGR recoil effect that is multiplied by the number of gauss weapons boated. Charge time numbers below are just for example.

1xGR = 0.5s charge, minor recoil
2xGR = 1.0s charge, moderate recoil (= current HGR recoil effect)
3xGR = 1.5s charge, high recoil
4xGR = 2.0s charge, huge recoil

Light gauss rifles could have half the charge and recoil of standard gauss rifles to make up for their crappy damage

1xHGR = 0.75s charge, moderate recoil (current recoil effect)
2xHGR = 1.5s charge, huge recoil (twice current recoil)

Also to consider - prevent any other weapons firing while gauss weapons are charging

That's a much better solution that makes boating gauss weapons have a 'power draw' effect and be something that only a skilled pilot should consider.



However it doesn't matter because....

PGI DON'T LISTEN!

Edited by Dogstar, 30 October 2018 - 10:00 AM.

[Prototelis]

Please no.

Like it would be cool if you could charge 3 light gauss at once..
But the rest of it just no.

[Dogstar]

Also - afaik there are no mechs at all that can fit more than 2 HGR, so why is 6th listing penalties for 3x and 4x HGR?

[Acersecomic]

The6thMessenger, on 30 October 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

Lol:

ANH-1A

Difference being you can't fire all three at the same time, therefore not having 45 instant pinpoint damage.

Dogstar, on 30 October 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

However it doesn't matter because....

PGI DON'T LISTEN!

This ^^

Edited by Acersecomic, 30 October 2018 - 10:20 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Prototelis, on 30 October 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

Like it would be cool if you could charge 3 light gauss at once..

Heck, 4 LGauss would be fine, because it's just better to take 2 Gauss instead ~100% of the time.

[Gas Guzzler]

The6thMessenger, on 30 October 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

Lol:

ANH-1A

Quad gauss Carebear wins

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 02:57 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Dogstar, on 30 October 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

Also - afaik there are no mechs at all that can fit more than 2 HGR, so why is 6th listing penalties for 3x and 4x HGR?

Probably because you can do 2x HGR + 2x GR -- not in any practical capacity, but they are linked. ANH-1A

And to my knowledge, they use the lowest heatscale, the highest multiplier and base heat for the penalty.

Dogstar, on 30 October 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Once again - just no. Please stop with the suggestions.

No. Deal with it.

Dogstar, on 30 October 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Ghost Heat is a bad mechanism in the first place. If you want to penalise boating Gauss rifles then a much better solution would be to add the charge up time together and add a HGR recoil effect that is multiplied by the number of gauss weapons boated.

I honestly never felt that the HGR recoil to be hindering at all. And the HGR recoil is actually more when you fire two than just one, so yeah. When you fire two HGR at once, the shells are sent towards where your reticle is pointing at, it's only a hindrance to the next volley. Like they said, it's only hindering one of the two styles of gauss vomit -- adding recoil only encourages them to fire lasers first and then fire the gauss second.

The charge-up time also doesn't really address the part where the Gauss are heatless, why they are integral part of hot meta builds, because they are specifically used when the heat gauge is built up with all of those alpha.

So no, it's not a better solution, in fact it's just another set of trivial problem, instead of an actual response to already existing problem.

Dogstar, on 30 October 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Also to consider - prevent any other weapons firing while gauss weapons are charging

That's a much better solution that makes boating gauss weapons have a 'power draw' effect and be something that only a skilled pilot should consider.

No, it's not a better solution. Not only it's even harder to implement because of complete mechanics change, it's even more disruptive to use. The current Gauss charge is already complicated enough. All your suggestion will do is to prevent alphas like Gauss-PPCs were prevented, but it does not address the fact that Heat isn't a limiting factor to gauss.

Like i said, I wanted to give it heat, because the issue is it being heatless, but it's against the spirit of the weapon, so my compromise with it is just give it ghost-heat at 2+, and provide heat penalty of 4, to a total of 6. In fact, what i even gave is really low, the target heat total i actually want is a total of 8 heat, to make it nearer ac20 level damage/heat.

To put that into perspective, the AC20 that does 20 damage does 6 heat. We're still looking at relatively heatless weapon when fired only at 1, but when firing two we have within ballpark of the AC20 in terms of damage. It would still be the best damage/heat weapon, but it's not retardedly so.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 30 October 2018 - 03:47 PM.

[Roughneck45]

TWO threads on the front page calling for a Gauss BUFF!

Never thought I'd see the day.

[The6thMessenger]

Roughneck45, on 30 October 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

TWO threads on the front page calling for a Gauss BUFF!

Never thought I'd see the day.

I honestly don't see this as a buff, it's really more of a tweak.

[Stonefalcon]

The6thMessenger, on 30 October 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

Lol: ANH-1A

https://mwo.smurfy-n...d8f8ee300f96a18

I would rather the ability to put Clan tech on particular IS mechs the clans used.

[LordNothing]

Dogstar, on 30 October 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

Also - afaik there are no mechs at all that can fit more than 2 HGR, so why is 6th listing penalties for 3x and 4x HGR?

you can do 2hgr and 2gr on an anihilator if you like going slower than a stock urbie and you strip about a three quarters of your armor, but you do get an 80 point heat free alpha inside 270m. a more sane version is 3grs and an hgr, you are still slow but you can have almost half of your armor, still 70 is pretty high for a heat free ppfld. with stacked charge time, recoil, and a penalty, then it sounds a lot more reasonable.

trollolol
trollolol light

Edited by LordNothing, 30 October 2018 - 07:06 PM.

[El Bandito]

The6thMessenger, on 30 October 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

I honestly don't see this as a buff, it's really more of a tweak.

PPFLD should not become easier to alpha. We already had several bad experiences before.

Eating some heat penalty for 60 PPFLD is easy for many people.

[Dogstar]

The6thMessenger, on 30 October 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

No. Deal with it.

Well I'm going to keep calling you on your crappy ideas then.

El Bandito, on 30 October 2018 - 10:41 PM, said:

Eating some heat penalty for 60 PPFLD is easy for many people.

Which is why my ideas are better

Edited by Dogstar, 30 October 2018 - 11:44 PM.

[Vellron2005]

Isn't 2 Gauss riffles OP enough?

Come one.. really?

Some people..