46 replies to this topic

[Shanrak]

No one's brought up the IV-Four yet. Nothing on the clan side can match that combination of durability, agility, and DPS.

[Eisenhorne]

Shanrak, on 14 November 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

No one's brought up the IV-Four yet. Nothing on the clan side can match that combination of durability, agility, and DPS.

Good point, that thing is broken as hell to fight against when on clan side. Speaking of heroes... the Slepinir. Nothing clan side can bring 50 PPFLD like that thing can.

[Racerxintegra2k]

I'm digging this discussion. I'll add some IS ones

Bushwacker
Marauder

[Eisenhorne]

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 03:53 PM, said:

I'm digging this discussion. I'll add some IS ones

Bushwacker
Marauder

The Bushwacker doesn't really have a clan analog either, there is no ~80-90 KPH clan medium that is quite as tanky. The Stormcrow is faster and can carry way more firepower, and the Huntsman can carry more firepower and can jump. Both are more fragile though.

I guess the closest thing the clans have to a BSW is a Linebacker, which to be fair is 10 tons heavier, but will out fight a BSW any day of the week.

The Marauder is another one without a clan analog, there really isn't a tanky clan heavy that can do dakka well. The Night Gyr can do dakka better, but it's not durable at all, and handles like a shopping cart. This is another one where the IS doctrine of survival vs the Clan doctrine of heavy firepower is noticeable. Still, the firepower of the Marauder isn't -that- good at range (3 AC5 at best) since it only has one ballistic torso, so it serves best IMO as a brawler, doing 2 LBX10 + ML's. So I guess you could compare it to the ON1-IIC, which is one of the best brawlers in the game. Doesn't have the same quirks as IS mechs for durability, but clan tech gives it an edge in firepower, and it's pretty fast and agile.

[Nightbird]

Eisenhorne, on 14 November 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

Good point, that thing is broken as hell to fight against when on clan side. Speaking of heroes... the Slepinir. Nothing clan side can bring 50 PPFLD like that thing can.

Victor at 80 tons can do it also, and free. Also Fafnir ofc @100T with ECM but slower.

[Abaddun]

Clans don't really have anything the the MRM 60 Cat C4. ATM boats are generally restricted to 75 tons or more because of how "feast or famine" small ATM launchers can be and nothing the clanners have compares to the blend of agility, durability and damage that mech brings.

[Y E O N N E]

Eisenhorne, on 15 November 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

The Marauder is another one without a clan analog, there really isn't a tanky clan heavy that can do dakka well. The Night Gyr can do dakka better, but it's not durable at all, and handles like a shopping cart. This is another one where the IS doctrine of survival vs the Clan doctrine of heavy firepower is noticeable. Still, the firepower of the Marauder isn't -that- good at range (3 AC5 at best) since it only has one ballistic torso, so it serves best IMO as a brawler, doing 2 LBX10 + ML's. So I guess you could compare it to the ON1-IIC, which is one of the best brawlers in the game. Doesn't have the same quirks as IS mechs for durability, but clan tech gives it an edge in firepower, and it's pretty fast and agile.

If you're going to brawl with a Marauder, the MAD-5D with MRMs and MLs or SRMs and MPLs will do you better. Or HGauss and MLs, especially if you have the P2W variant.

For the dakka, I'm not a fan of 3x AC/5; burst DPS is too low IMHO. Triple UAC/2 or double UAC/5 with 3x or 4x LPPC, respectively, is better, especially with the boosted DHS.

[Gristle Missile]

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Piranha 1: Machine gun build

Firestarter Ember is pretty good with MGs. It is bigger with more tonnage, but it is more durable than the piranha. Is also has ROF quirks
Also the loyalty Javelin can boat 6 MGs

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Bloodasp: 2xGuass+6ERML's

Warhammer 6R - can use 2 gauss and 4 ER med with either a XL engine or light if you strip the arms
Or you could do something similar with a thanatos
You can also do 2 gauss 3 er LL on a king crab 0000 but the mounts are a little funky

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

MadCat mkII: 2x uac10's 2x uac5

Annihilator can do the same build
Also Slepnir can do 4x uac5

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Hellbringer: ECM Laser vom

Not much IS has in terms of heavy mech laser vomit with ECM...
Best bet is a Grasshopper or Black Knight with no ECM or if you go up to assualt you can do some stuff with a stalker

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Super Nova A: full LRMmage

LRM Mean Baby with 4 lrm 20s or Awesome 8R with 4 LRM 15s

Edited by Gristle Missile, 15 November 2018 - 02:49 PM.

[Daurock]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 November 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

If you're going to brawl with a Marauder, the MAD-5D with MRMs and MLs or SRMs and MPLs will do you better. Or HGauss and MLs, especially if you have the P2W variant.

For the dakka, I'm not a fan of 3x AC/5; burst DPS is too low IMHO. Triple UAC/2 or double UAC/5 with 3x or 4x LPPC, respectively, is better, especially with the boosted DHS.

I'm going to be honest, the Marauder is probably one of the best Face-Tank mechs in the game. The structure quirks, coupled with an amazing frontal geometric profile just fit the bill for it so well its ridiculous. It's for that reason that the MAD-3R is probably my favorite RAC mech in the game. Trip RAC2s, and 4 meds will absolutely trash people, and the MAD is durable enough to make it the facetime required to do so work. No clan equivalent of that exists, even if clan would have access to RACs.

As for the OP's question - Just like there's no clan marauder equivalent, (Or bushwacker, Anni, or Sleipnir) clan has stuff that IS just can't do. That isn't the end of the world. Now, don't take that to mean that I wouldn't like there to be more IS traders, or Clan brawlers, but for now, the baseline balance isn't terrible, and is far better than it's been in a long time. The path they're heading down is moving in that direction, one clan weapon nerf at a time, and i suspect will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

Edited by Daurock, 15 November 2018 - 11:36 AM.

[Gristle Missile]

Daurock, on 15 November 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

I'm going to be honest, the Marauder is probably one of the best Face-Tank mechs in the game. The structure quirks, coupled with an amazing frontal geometric profile just fit the bill for it so well its ridiculous. It's for that reason that the MAD-3R is probably my favorite RAC mech in the game. Trip RAC2s, and 4 meds will absolutely trash people, and the MAD is durable enough to make it the facetime required to do so work. No clan equivalent of that exists, even if clan would have access to RACs.

Its a fun build, and I made one the day they changed the RAC ghost heat limit to 3.
After playing it for a while though, noticed good players would just try their best to rip off my right torso which pretty much kills all your DPS. Big weakness, but if you can protect that torso it can bring the pain

[Eisenhorne]

My big problem with the triple RAC2 Marauder is that the Bushwacker can do the exact same thing, for 20 tons less. Why waste a heavy slot on something that can be done with a medium?

[FupDup]

Eisenhorne, on 15 November 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

My big problem with the triple RAC2 Marauder is that the Bushwacker can do the exact same thing, for 20 tons less. Why waste a heavy slot on something that can be done with a medium?

That's going to one slooooow Bushwacker unless you want to put in an XL (in which case you're gonna 'splode real quick).

[Eisenhorne]

FupDup, on 15 November 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

That's going to one slooooow Bushwacker unless you want to put in an XL (in which case you're gonna 'splode real quick).

Eh, I'd run it with XL, the BSW is pretty good at spreading fire around it's torsos while you stare. You can also do it with an LFE250 and have enough ammo for a quick play, so it doesn't HAVE to be XL. LFE250 still gets you going over 70KPH, about as fast as the marauder would have been.

[FupDup]

Eisenhorne, on 15 November 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

Eh, I'd run it with XL, the BSW is pretty good at spreading fire around it's torsos while you stare. You can also do it with an LFE250 and have enough ammo for a quick play, so it doesn't HAVE to be XL. LFE250 still gets you going over 70KPH, about as fast as the marauder would have been.

My personal rule is that I won't use a medium mech that can't go at least 81 kph without speed tweak, given that there are several Clan heavies that go 81 while packing a wallop. A medium should be able to outmanuever an average heavy or else it really hasn't earned the title of being a medium.

[Eisenhorne]

FupDup, on 15 November 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

My personal rule is that I won't use a medium mech that can't go at least 81 kph without speed tweak, given that there are several Clan heavies that go 81 while packing a wallop. A medium should be able to outmanuever an average heavy or else it really hasn't earned the title of being a medium.

It should depend entirely on it's role. If you're building a medium to take over the role of a Marauder for triple RAC2, its kind of silly to require it to go 81KPH, since the Marauder it's replacing wouldn't do that anyway. Mediums don't need to out maneuver anything, they just need to fill whatever role they have. And since this one is ranged fire support, being fast enough to outrun a heavy shouldn't really matter.

[Gristle Missile]

Eisenhorne, on 15 November 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

My big problem with the triple RAC2 Marauder is that the Bushwacker can do the exact same thing, for 20 tons less. Why waste a heavy slot on something that can be done with a medium?

Well the problem with the Bushie is that you either have to give up cooling, some med lasers, or ammo compared to the Marauder. Also less face time in general because the marauder is more durable.
Cooling and ammo with 3rac2 and 4 med lasers is perfect in the Marauder

I would say the bushie is better with rac5s anyways

[Tiewolf]

Eisenhorne, on 14 November 2018 - 12:45 PM, said:

It's definitely the strongest light mech when it comes to killing heavy or assault class mechs (that aren't streak boats). It is also definitely outclassed by other light mechs. A Wolfhound should have relatively little difficulty killing a Piranha, assuming the pilots are equally skilled.

A WLF should have no difficulties at all with a PIR. But WLFs are heavier and if they lose their quirks then they are fish food.

[C H E E K I E Z]

[color=#959595]Piranha 1: Machine gun build[/color]

Oxide


[color=#959595]Bloodasp: 2xGuass+6ERML's[/color]
anni/fafnir with 2xgauss/2LL/4ML

[color=#959595]MadCat mkII: 2x uac10's 2x uac5[/color]
any balistic driven assault on Is side.


[color=#959595]Hellbringer: ECM Laser vom[/color]
any grasshopper 5p/warhammer 6d


[color=#959595]Super Nova A: full LRM[/color]
[color=#959595]Awesome 8R[/color]

[InvictusLee]

Daurock, on 14 November 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

This is true. The LRM Supernova is Way Over-Tonned for the amount of firepower it brings, unless you're carrying enough missiles to bring down an entire city with it. (Which you'll only actually ever fire in a FP match.)

If I'm going to troll QP with LRMs, I'm doing it in a hunchback. It can keep up with the nascar crew, carry LRM 60 with enough ammo for most QP matches, and even carry my own damn narcs since no one else probably is doing it, all at the same time. Depending on how cheeky I want to be, I can even outfit it with jump jets.

Hunchback 2, Stormcrow, Cougar, Adder, Scorch, Madcat-4 are all superior LRM boats. Even the sunspider is great. I prefer ATMs these days, since they are streaks on steroids, but hey LRMs can be fun.

I havent tried the IS LRM boats yet, but Im going to give them a shot at some point.

[justcallme A S H]

Jables McBarty, on 14 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

The Supernova is not a great LRM boat.

An almost heat neutral LRM80 boat is not a great boat? Hmm... It's amazing.
The Nova Cat isn't too bad but it runs far hotter and has overall much lower DPS.

Then there are the IS mechs like the Archer 2R or Awesome 8R, while they don't have huge launchers they make up for that with obscene sustained DPS via mega quirks in cooldown, velocity, heat etc. They just play a little different.