71 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

El Bandito, on 22 November 2018 - 03:15 AM, said:

The best that any MM can do is to create two teams each with a 50/50 chance of winning, plus making sure all the participating players are of similar skill level. That is the true fix.

Such true fix is, again, not possible with current population, unless one is willing to wait for a looong time.

The part you bolded is arbitrary, what is "similar"? No one will ever agree on how wide skill band should be for it to be similar. The lowest skilled player of any skill band will feel it is UNFAIR.

Creating narrower and narrower skill bands is actually just DYNAMIC IMPROVEMENTS in matchmaking that a proper MM will automatically do as population ebbs and flows. A proper MM will create narrower skill bands when there is 1000 people in queue versus 100 by putting the top 24 in one group, the next 24 in another group, etc. The current MM doesn't do that because it uses match score based tiers which are sh*t.

Edited by Nightbird, 22 November 2018 - 01:58 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 22 November 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

what youre saying makes no sense.

if theres players that dont belong in tier 1 then theres also certainly players that dont belong in tier 2 or tier 3.
.

No you just have no ability to use common sense and logic.

PSR is an experience bar.
If you have 200AMS you eventually get enough experience to rise to Tier 1.
200AMS puts you just about the middle of Tier 3.

So while some players have made it into Tier 1 by sheer brute force... There are plenty, plenty who have not as it requires 1,000s of games. They will stay in Tier 3 and population remains unaffected. If anything over time some players that are bogged down by the players in T1 that should be T4 will mean they can rise out of T3 and actually go UP because those players are in no more T3-5 matches where they belong.

You just can't seem to understand a bell curve and averages. It will make NO difference. Go do some basic education of yourself.

Just for once can you accept the fact you're just wrong and stop replying with nonsensical points!

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 November 2018 - 01:02 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

RJF Volkodav, on 21 November 2018 - 02:31 AM, said:

I dont care about rewards. Fix matchmaker instead pls.

I don't care about rewards either. Fix the pro solo playerbase pls.

[Grus]

justcallme A S H, on 22 November 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

No you just have no ability to use common sense and logic.

PSR is an experience bar.
If you have 200AMS you eventually get enough experience to rise to Tier 1.
200AMS puts you just about the middle of Tier 3.

So while some players have made it into Tier 1 by sheer brute force... There are plenty, plenty who have not as it requires 1,000s of games. They will stay in Tier 3 and population remains unaffected. If anything over time some players that are bogged down by the players in T1 that should be T4 will mean they can rise out of T3 and actually go UP because those players are in no more T3-5 matches where they belong.

You just can't seem to understand a bell curve and averages. It will make NO difference. Go do some basic education of yourself.

Just for once can you accept the fact you're just wrong and stop replying with nonsensical points!

*jerry*jerry*jerry*

Agreed the teir system is just a exp bar. However, if we put into effect what you say, wouldnt the que wait times take longer as you progress in "gitgood" status due to there being less and less population of the top 30/20/10 and so on? Wouldnt we have to add a system in where you could drop against less players on each team? I.e. 8v8, 6v6, ex..

[Khobai]

Grus, on 23 November 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

Agreed the teir system is just a exp bar. However, if we put into effect what you say, wouldnt the que wait times take longer as you progress in "gitgood" status due to there being less and less population of the top 30/20/10 and so on?

No one said its not an exp bar. we are all in agreement with that.

But yes you are absolutely correct. Queue times would be longer. And Ive said as much.

Ash clearly doesnt understand how the tier system works if he doesnt realize queue times will increase if you remove players from tier 1-3 and put more players in tier 4-5. Less players = longer wait times. Its not a hard concept to grasp.

Furthermore theres absolutely no guarantee it would even improve match quality. because stomps happen even in the highest levels of play. its not addressing the real problem of why stomps occur. Stomps arnt occuring because too many people dont belong in tier 1. Stomps occur because skirmish and its equivalents are awful gamemodes.

Honestly the tier system should just be removed completely. Because the whole concept of dividing a decreasingly small player base into even more buckets is a fundamentally flawed concept. And its only going to get worse as we get less players.

Grus, on 23 November 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

Wouldnt we have to add a system in where you could drop against less players on each team? I.e. 8v8, 6v6, ex..

more likely theyd have to implement "release valves" that would allow higher tiers to play lower tiers if higher tier players arnt available... which is really no different than how the game works now by having tier 1 be oversaturated. If you have to implement release valves anyway, nothing would change really.

And theres zero proof that re-tiering players will improve match quality or prevent stomps. So the whole approach of trying to fix the tier system is pointless. A better approach would be to fix why stomps occur, which means fixing the gamemodes themselves.

Edited by Khobai, 23 November 2018 - 01:47 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Grus, on 23 November 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

*jerry*jerry*jerry*

Agreed the teir system is just a exp bar. However, if we put into effect what you say, wouldnt the que wait times take longer as you progress in "gitgood" status due to there being less and less population of the top 30/20/10 and so on? Wouldnt we have to add a system in where you could drop against less players on each team? I.e. 8v8, 6v6, ex..

Again - look this up - bell curve.

The answer is absolutely no impact. The majority of players right now are stacked, presumably, between Tier 1 & 3. Longer you play the closer you are to Tier 1. With new dudes and the super below average in T5/T4.

Out of the activite population right now, some 30,000... You can be at roughly 25,000 of 30,000 and be in TIER 1.

How does moving those players into Tier 3, where the BULK of the population should be, affect anything in terms of wait time? It's still roughly going to be the same pool if players to pull from in total, just slightly reallocated.

Anyone that doesn't understand the bell curve concept for aggregating is very ignorant. AKA the guy above me saying I have no idea how the Tier system works... Which is at best, laughable.

[Grus]

I get a bell curve...

So what youre suggesting is lefts say, t1-2 fills up the match FIRST then if not enough people at that level THEN dips into the bigger pools? Wouldnt that be more of a handy cap if one side get more herpderp than the other? At that level top 5%10 is a big difference to the 20's% and so on. Id hate for some poor bastered getting pulled into a match like that, get wrecked, and leave the game.. for example.

[justcallme A S H]

Im saying - let it do exactly what it does now.

+/- two tiers.

Tier 1 to Tier 3 matches now, that doesn't change.
Tier 3 to Tier 5 matches now, that doesn't change
Tier 2 to Tier 4 matches also unchanged.

All that is happening is people being moved outta Tier 1 and into Tier 3/Tier 2 where they belong. The pool of players remains the same.

Also some Tier 4 players are over performing and should RISE into Tier 3... They can't do that as easily as they were learning the game for say the first 200 matches and this take a while to rise into Tier 3 - if they are aggregated properly into a bell curve they would actually rise FASTER if they are BETTER, which many T4 players are but they are simply stuck due to overall teams and losing those early games while learning.

It will work.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

Idea : It's too easy to climb to the top of Tier 1. So make it easier to drop then to raise inside Tier 1, and treat Tier 1 as multiple tiers instead of a single Tier for the Match Maker.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Humble Dexter, on 28 November 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

Idea : It's too easy to climb to the top of Tier 1. So make it easier to drop then to raise inside Tier 1, and treat Tier 1 as multiple tiers instead of a single Tier for the Match Maker.

How is that any different than what's already there? You're just creating more tiers but calling it the same name. Do the players in each sub-tier get matched differently or the same?

[WhineyThePoo]

No

[BumbaCLot]

Nightbird, on 21 November 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

What about what I wrote requires a source?

Since you didn't quote me quoting yourself, this was the line '[color=#959595]The problem has always been the MM used stupid metrics like match score and tiers to create teams'[/color]