61 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

The reason people arnt playing MWO isnt because its too complex. Theyre not playing MWO because its a bad game that isnt fun even for people who KNOW how to play it. So why would people who dont know how to play it want to learn how to play it?

[KingCobra]

Khobai, on 25 November 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

The reason people arnt playing MWO isnt because its too complex. Theyre not playing MWO because its a bad game that isnt fun even for people who KNOW how to play it. So why would people who dont know how to play it want to learn how to play it?

Amen brother you nailed it like I have said also the same thing on this forum many times most players cant comprehend the truth and PGI has failed to listen to one small saying over and over and it has cost them millions of dollars in lost revenue over this games lifespan by lost players leaving the game and in there arrogance they believed that new players would replace all the old guard players and keep the cash cow fat LOLOLOL.

Owe back to that saying PGI and the devas ignore over and over (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID) If they would have just done one simple little thing like make a Social /lobby/launcher for players years ago they might have retained 50% of the long lost player base.

But that would imply PGI and the Devas had a IQ over 80 .

[Lightfoot]

Oh yeah. The Solaris 7 maps are too small. Solaris 7 becomes some other game they are so small. I am thinking if the maps were 2x the size they are they would be what PGI had intended, but when you have maps as small as they are they generate motion physics that make them play twice as small. PGI spent a lot of time on Solaris 7, it should be more engaging, more thoughtful than it is. Make 4 bigger maps. Twice as large, minimum.

[Tesunie]

I know, I know. I'm late to the party.

W A R K H A N, on 24 November 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

ADHD brats rather play shallow games like CoD, CS.GO, PUBG / **insert other popular generic shooter here**

Umm... I have ADHD. I've been here for a long time and love BT related stuff. I don't find your statement here very... accurate. Maybe more so "new generation gamers tend to prefer simpler/shallow games", which would be far more accurate (and less insulting) of a general statement.

FRAGTAST1C, on 24 November 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

As Six-Pack said, it's one of the reasons why I keep posting so many questions that have surely been answered to death before. Another thing that's bad is the matchmaking. Actually, this is the worst. I could introduce some of the friends to this game but I can't play with them in the same team. Why? deploying as a group is a pain. More often than not, the matchmaking screws up the teams.

In Group Queue, the match maker has a lot fewer elements to be able to grab from (less player pool). As such, it will still try to match via PSR tiers, but after a short wait time it will (and often does need to) start broadening those brackets until it is just grabbing anyone it can to create a match. You also have T5 players teaming up with T1 players, which obviously starts to remove the MM even more in GQ.

Unless you are in a low population time, QP solo queue should produce better tier matching for the match formations. However, just like with GQ, if there is such a low population at the time the match is trying to be produced, it is possible (though typically very very rare) for a T5 player to find themsleves with T1 players amongst them.

It is sad for new players trying to team up and earn rewards, as it's much harder in GQ (teamwork is everything in this game), but I might remind that any group of players can drop in a private lobby (negating rewards) to play and train together. If you are teaching a new player, I would recommend you group up, and drop into the private lobby for a while before going into a live match in GQ.

There is also the entire academy for new (and old) players to utilize. Many of their trials (and the tutorial) can be useful for players to perform. However, this is providing the player in question actually wishes to take the time to check that stuff out, for no rewards (limited rewards) and actually wish to utilize a subsection that isn't the main portion of the game itself. AKA: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.

[Humpday]

W A R K H A N, on 24 November 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

ADHD brats rather play shallow games like CoD, CS.GO, PUBG / **insert other popular generic shooter here**

That's a joke right? How is MWO anymore in depth than Any other fps? Mwo is straight up Team death match bud. And you must really suck at fps if you think those games are shallow because there is a significant amount of strategy involved at speed 1000x the pace of the dying, turtle speed paced MWO. Lane control, area denial, monitoring spawn locations, locking down your zones, air superiority, and conversely, air borne denial.

Who's your slayer(forward harasser, best gunskill), who's your anchor(support guards flank routes)? Who the objective player(cap the point, and defend? If he dies who rotates in?

You must also build your loadouts with the proper perks and choose the best specialist appropriately per map and adjust loadouts mid game based on how the other team is playing. Each class of weapon has different effects on mobility, each has a different time to kill, and at different ranges of effectiveness, each individual weapon of each class handles completely different, recoil is completely different, modes of fire are different. Rifles with superior ttk at mid range can be out traded by smgs at shorter ranges. Some weapons deal more damage to the head, some weapons allow you to flinch less. Each weaspon can take several different optics and attachments(suppressor, stocks, laser sights, grips, FMJ ammo, some weapons can take special mods to alter the behavior of the weapon. Do you take armor, or do you take faster healing ability? Faster equip recharge, faster streaks, acoustic sensor. Do you take dead silence or tactical mask or any other of the 12 or so perks? Or both, or neither depending what game mode you're in. Do you skip all perks and instead take all weapons attachments, or vice versa?

Do you attach that long barrel so your bullets travel faster and have less bullet drop off or do you take the suppressor at the expense of range but at the advantage of stealth? Do you take that 3x scope or reflex sight for that smg? To you run sniper/smg or rifle/sniper, or shotgun/sniper? Do you take that cuncussion grenade over the smoke? Sensor dart or the grapple gun for more mobility?

Come on guy lul....

Edited by Humpday, 26 November 2018 - 12:01 AM.

[Humpday]

To put it into perspective, in MWO, on anymap:

Take dual heavy gauss + mls/mpls
Gauss vom
Laser vom(pulse or standard/er)
MG boat
ATM boat
LRM boat
Uac5/10
lbx10 boat
Uac5 boat
CUac10s mpls

...there, you have all the builds that'll consistently and reliably get you +2kd...less the LRM boat, but people will do it anyway.
No matter what new chassis comes out, you'll end up with the same loadouts, all the time, if you want to be any "good" at the game.

Edited by Humpday, 26 November 2018 - 12:05 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Tesunie, on 25 November 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

There is also the entire academy for new (and old) players to utilize. Many of their trials (and the tutorial) can be useful for players to perform. However, this is providing the player in question actually wishes to take the time to check that stuff out, for no rewards (limited rewards) and actually wish to utilize a subsection that isn't the main portion of the game itself. AKA: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.

Yeah, the mini-challenges in the Academy like Gauntlet is extremely useful for new players to learn. I'm not fully competent at torso-twisting just yet but I get the reason why it's so important and also how to manoeuvre in a mech while under fire and still be able to fire back.

[Vellron2005]

Six-Pack, on 24 November 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

Only 49% of Steam players finished the tutorial.
Only 38.5% of Steam players got their first victory ie played more than a few games.

I think this has nothing to do with having new players in the game..

Here's why we don't have new players in the game:

1) The game is old, with dated graphics and mechanics

2) The game doesn't advertise beyond word of mouth

3) When a player wishes to introduce a friend to play together, they get into group queue, and wait 20+ minutes to get a match. This is unacceptable.

4) Steep learning curve - most kids nowadays don't have the attention span to learn the ins and outs of a complicated game. They want instant action, without having to google what mech to buy and without having to need actual training in playing a video game to be able to compete with the average player.

5) Low population in-game, bad reviews, salt on the forums

6) A whole host of bugs and issues with the base mechanics of the game, ranging from something as simple as dancing decals to something as big as the game's main patcher hanging up and not patching.

7) Poor matchmaking that allows veteran players to stomp people who joined yesterday. Lack of any kind of matchmaking in major game modes like Faction Play that are not veteran-exclusive.

8) Lack of clear descriptions of inner workings of the game, how the game works, how the game modes work and such.

9) Lack of game substance beyond buying, skilling up, and shooting mechs. No story, no fluff, no descriptions, no game world lore..

10) New players treated as little more than cannon fodder. Veteran players taking it upon themselves to command other's playstyle, build and behavior. Instead of encouraging diversity and creativity, players get out-right bullied for not bringing the ordered cookie-cutter mech and build. If you don't do as you're told, you can't hang with the big boys.

THAT is why the game can't get / retain new players.

Edited by Vellron2005, 26 November 2018 - 02:47 AM.

[Dee Eight]

If players with 5000+ games still haven't learned how weapon ranges work for example.. what hope do brand new players have ? I had a fafnir that was just twin heavy gauss trying to play sniper... kept shooting at me from 1663 meters. I remained perfectly still... he wasted two tons of ammo NOT DEALING DAMAGE to me before someone else hit him with clan PPC's for only a couple pts of damage and he moved. If not for that other player, he'd likely have happily kept standing where he was until he ran out of ammo, never once doing me any damage. He sat through an arty strike without moving. He'd have likely sat through more of them but PPC hits got him moving. Worse it was the collectors version of the Faf-5... so... that's at least $28USD of spending by one really oblivious player.

[MrMilkshake]

KingCobra, on 25 November 2018 - 08:35 PM, said:

Amen brother you nailed it like I have said also the same thing on this forum many times most players cant comprehend the truth and PGI has failed to listen to one small saying over and over and it has cost them millions of dollars in lost revenue over this games lifespan by lost players leaving the game and in there arrogance they believed that new players would replace all the old guard players and keep the cash cow fat LOLOLOL.

Owe back to that saying PGI and the devas ignore over and over (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID) If they would have just done one simple little thing like make a Social /lobby/launcher for players years ago they might have retained 50% of the long lost player base.

But that would imply PGI and the Devas had a IQ over 80 .

This right here is the cold hard truth. I wonder how long it will take people to realise that at this point PGI are doing more damage to the Mechwarrior/Battletech series than good.

[JC Daxion]

Negative community. IMO that is the real issue. How many games have you avoided because all you heard was negative crap about them? I have completely stopped listening and steam is the main reason. Now that i see people saying nothing but **** about a game that some how they played 2k hours. How on earth do you play a game for 2k hours that sucks these days? I don't have enough time to play games i like or have bought, let alone spend more than 20 mins playing something i don't enjoy. this isn't 1978 when you only had space invaders and that was it.

that is not to say some criticism isn't warranted, or perhaps you don't like everything. even great games can have total **** parts.. Mass effect 1, the horrible rover, i don't think i ever played a game with a worse ground vehicle.. doesn't mean the game is horrible.. dragon age 2. 3 wave battles, and reused areas. (though ME one had the same issue but no one ever seams to talk about that). yea it kinda sucked, but the NPC's were great and the interaction was to me the best RP since BG2, far better than DAO which i thought had a better story over all, but after playing many time you can see the flaws.. the pathing in BG1 was by far the worst gami ever played, but hit pause and make um go where you want. But you deal with it and enjoy the fantastic game it was.

I don't get how people say this game is so horrible.. I played MW3 and 4, and this one has by far the best game play. If it didn't i would still be playing M3 (one of the buggiest games i have ever played) or 4 which fize stuff, by talk about power creep.. My god it was horrible! Yea, play an assault.. that's all that is worth playing.


a company as large as bioware can get by a few k people talking crap about a game any time it is mentioned. PGI is small, and it does far more damage than anything they do. I'll never understand why people that don't like something just don't move on and stop talking crap.. I have tons of games i don't like, would never play, and i most certainly would never waste 1 min talking about it.. why rage about Dota, i just don't play it and to those that love it.. more power to them..

Edited by JC Daxion, 26 November 2018 - 07:05 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Ohh one last thing, and i am guilty of this too.. good playes should be in FW.. QP should be the learning stage, not the get schooled by meta mechs taking down scrubs. If the community worked harder on making FW the best, and most viable place to play for experienced players then the game would be far better. New players could come and learn in QP, but FW would be where the real action is. I'd even go as far as saying take out normal group cue, if you wanna play group FW should be the only place outside of comp

[TheCaptainJZ]

What that means is a lot of people downloaded the game and never played it. If you play, say, 5 matches, you are likely to have won at least once which is only 40% of the people who downloaded the game. It should be more like 80%. Since the tutorial was only 49%, the highest achievement completed also, let's just double all those achievement levels for what "actual" levels might be.
Also keep in mind, the game has been on Steam for a few years now. A lot of those people that downloaded it and never played it probably did so because it was F2P and was advertised as a new game when it first launched there.

[Tesunie]

JC Daxion, on 26 November 2018 - 07:09 AM, said:

I'd even go as far as saying take out normal group cue, if you wanna play group FW should be the only place outside of comp

Then where would new players who want to play as a group go? If all groups land in FW, then new player groups would land there too...

[Jman5]

If your concern is about about getting more people to play the tutorial, the only way you will solve that is by forcing new accounts to go through it before they can play a match.

Look guys, the fact of that matter is that a lot of people download a game, poke around with it for a couple minutes and then never touch it again.

Just look at Stellaris achievements. A critically acclaimed 4x game.

[Nightbird]

[FuzzyNova]

I think the biggest Reason the player base is so shallow is because
MWO needs a decent to great CPU/graphics card to play the gameis At an
Average level. I played This game the first 4 years on a crappy laptop
And my FPS was 20. It was horrible but I loved mwo so much
That I kept.playing Everyday.

One month ago I got myself a desktop. Finally
HP Nvidia GE Force GTX 1050/AMD Ryzen 5 2400 Vega
Processor.
Nothing too fancy but enough to run MWO great.

So.this plays into factor that most players probably have
A low end laptop. Or old desktop.
And with them seeing.thr first 30 mins of the game
All laggy and low fps they leave.






Most New pilots don't want to even finish half of the tutorial. They want
To get into the action asap. Little do they know the beginning tutorials
Will get you a ton of Cbills plus your extra first 20 or so matches.

I'm not sure how much exactly but I think you get like 14 million c bills
Total if you dont spend any.

Mwo should have way more players honestly. It has a decent amount.
But this is a one.of a kind game.

[Tesunie]

FuzzyNova, on 26 November 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

I think the biggest Reason the player base is so shallow is because
MWO needs a decent to great CPU/graphics card to play the gameis At an
Average level. I played This game the first 4 years on a crappy laptop
And my FPS was 20. It was horrible but I loved mwo so much
That I kept.playing Everyday.

One month ago I got myself a desktop. Finally
HP Nvidia GE Force GTX 1050/AMD Ryzen 5 2400 Vega
Processor.
Nothing too fancy but enough to run MWO great.

So.this plays into factor that most players probably have
A low end laptop. Or old desktop.
And with them seeing.thr first 30 mins of the game
All laggy and low fps they leave.

I can say, I was running on my old computer for 7+ years (not just MW:O mind). I had more problems than just FPS (which hovered at 40 most of the time). My issues where:
- Mechs might flicker in and out of "existence".
- "Ghost" damage.
- Being shot through terrain. (AKA: I ducked behind cover, but continued to take damage for several moments afterwards.)
- Shooting one section of a target visually, only to have another part take damage (if it even took any damage at all).
- Having (reproducible even on the training grounds and academy) a loadout of an AC5 and an AC2, every second shot of the AC5 and every third shot of the AC2 literally "vanished", dealing no damage at all.
- If using ballistics with PPCs, if my ballistic hit moments (less than a second), the PPC shot would deal no damage. (Just as above, reproducible with 100% results.)

Since upgrading to a new computer on Saturday (It's an Omen) that now runs this game with 100+ frames (dropped down to 50 FPS at it's lowest so far on Terra Therma) at High settings, I've since noticed:
- Shots land and deal damage where I actually see it hitting. (Direct fire performance has greatly improved.)
- Have not noticed any object, background nor mechs flicker.
- Damage seems to apply to myself in fashions and situations where I expect to be taking damage. When I move behind cover, it now seems to take immediate effect.

I still haven't tested other problems I use to have, but it seems a vast assortment of my issues have vanished with an improved new computer... This game's vastly improved performance based upon the computer operating it (the shear number of problems I once experienced) I can see driving some potential players away. It's most likely one of many aspects (including age of the game) that is making this game less appealing to some people.

[Moldur]

Steep learning curve and absolutely massive grind for what? A rinse and repeat 12 v 12 arena tdm. FP is fun with a regular group, but even a lot of vet players are put off by FP for one reason or another.

You may not think MWO is that hard to pick up, but try explaining to a new player on a fresh account. Once you start saying it out loud, you realize how much there is to keep track of. Couple that with horrific early game grind. If you get the wrong mechs or don't know where to start with meta builds, MWO is very painful because you've only got those 1 or 2 mechs to grind c-bills with.

[Corbon Zackery]

It might have something to do with the fact that it now cost 45,000 c-bills just to buy a skill point. So to max out a mech skill tree takes 4,095,000 c-bills. Free to play players get about 150,000 for win and 60,000 to 80,000 for a lose.

So ah its a very anti new player system.
Its also a very high DPS system with PPC, Gauss builds all over the place.
or 50 damage alpha heatsink builds.

Yep its not working well!