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Just Stop Voting For Escort


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#41 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:05 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 06 December 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:


Actually, we don't

We can stop playing (or TK the big potato)

If the big potato is legged, does he move even slower? :)

#42 Powder Puff Pew Pew

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:11 PM

Speaking about escort, who all remembers escorting VIP tanks, or vehicles in MW4? I'd like to see that here too, with Large Lazer tanks, just like in MW4.

#43 Sjorpha

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:44 AM

View PostMcgral18, on 06 December 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:


Actually, we don't

We can stop playing (or TK the big potato)


Sure, and if I get skirmish or hpg I can disconnect or suicide or stop playing.

I'm just not that childish, I deal with the fact that other players like it and that it will sometimes win the vote.

It's reasonable to ask pgi for changes and to voice your opinion, but it's not reasonable to ask other players to vote according to your preferences rather than your own or to call them trolls when they do. It's also not reasonable to argue that actively harming the team is more ok when you don't like the mode than it would be for them when they don't like it.

I'd like like escort to be better too. I'd also like skirmish removed from the game, but I'm not gonna make it an excuse for selfish in-game behavior in the meantime and neither should you.

Edited by Sjorpha, 07 December 2018 - 12:53 AM.


#44 TheGreyWolfe

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:15 AM

View PostSjorpha, on 06 December 2018 - 04:52 AM, said:

Players who vote for Escort do so because they want to play Escort, same reason you vote for the modes you prefer to play.

I see this all the time, this weird inability to understand that other people prefer other things than yourself. Just because you think Escort is bad it somehow has to be trolling when people vote for it. I've seen the same with maps, people who can't understand that other players might like other maps and so they just assume it's trolling or a misfired attempt at farming the vote multiplier.

Some people like Escort better than skirmish, some people prefer Polar Highlands and Terra Therma over HPG and Mining and you're just gonna have to deal with that.

I do understand that other people like things that I do not like. I guess what I don't understand is the desire to play and vote for a game mode that is clearly broken and is just not fun for the majority of players in a match. While I've had a many matches that end with team elimination, most end by VIP kill and I can count on my hand the times I've seen the VIP escape. Rarely have the matches (for me) been entertaining (because of the issues with it). I, of course do not have the actual PGI data, but anecdotally it appears only as an option for me in 1 in 10 matches - and only gets majority vote 1 out 5 when I see it - if everyone really loved it then I think I'd see it voted up more often.

The mode is broken on multiple levels in the terms of simulation, balance, AI, pathing/knowledge, and game play. I believe that most players know this - so I still stand by my OP that if you love it and keep voting for it, you are just trolling to make it just fun for you without care for a fair and balanced match for everyone else. This is equivalent to voting for old frozen city assault when you knew that if you got lucky to be on the correct side you could get a jump on the enemy assault lance and wipe them out because of a design issue with the map.

Escort could work, it could be a great mode with some fixes - but it's been out for a while now (on the PGI timescale) and they've appeared not to want to address the known issues with it.

Edited by TheGreyWolfe, 07 December 2018 - 03:15 AM.


#45 Prototelis

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 10:33 AM

View PostTarl Cabot, on 06 December 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

If the big potato is legged, does he move even slower? Posted Image


This used to work... then they patched it out lol.

#46 Sjorpha

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:59 PM

View PostTheGreyWolfe, on 07 December 2018 - 03:15 AM, said:

I do understand that other people like things that I do not like. I guess what I don't understand is the desire to play and vote for a game mode that is clearly broken and is just not fun for the majority of players in a match. While I've had a many matches that end with team elimination, most end by VIP kill and I can count on my hand the times I've seen the VIP escape. Rarely have the matches (for me) been entertaining (because of the issues with it). I, of course do not have the actual PGI data, but anecdotally it appears only as an option for me in 1 in 10 matches - and only gets majority vote 1 out 5 when I see it - if everyone really loved it then I think I'd see it voted up more often.

The mode is broken on multiple levels in the terms of simulation, balance, AI, pathing/knowledge, and game play. I believe that most players know this - so I still stand by my OP that if you love it and keep voting for it, you are just trolling to make it just fun for you without care for a fair and balanced match for everyone else. This is equivalent to voting for old frozen city assault when you knew that if you got lucky to be on the correct side you could get a jump on the enemy assault lance and wipe them out because of a design issue with the map.

Escort could work, it could be a great mode with some fixes - but it's been out for a while now (on the PGI timescale) and they've appeared not to want to address the known issues with it.


I agree the mode has major issues, most people don't like it so it gets voted for very rarely that's true.

It's not my favorite either, I like it more than skirmish but less than any other mode so it really only gets my vote when skirmish is the alternative. It would be great if those modes were improved. Icursion and assault both have major design issues as well tbh, it's really only conquest that is well done.

All I'm really saying is that when escort does get voted for, it's because someone likes it, or dislikes the other option more like in my case, it's not trolling or anything like that. It's really only pgi that can improve these things.

I also don't really understand why matches being won by completing the objective is somehow a bad thing, objective based modes should be won by objectives not elimination. I mean the mode has problems but that isn't one. It's a problem that the vip gets killed so easily of course, winning by protecting it successfully should be as common.

Edited by Sjorpha, 07 December 2018 - 02:20 PM.


#47 Mole

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:03 PM

I tend to not even vote for game mode unless Incursion or Escort is up. If so, I vote for Incursion or Escort. If it works, I get to play something other than god damn skirmish for the umpteenth time. If it doesn't, then my vote multiplier goes up.

#48 Jables McBarty

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:11 PM

View PostTheGreyWolfe, on 01 December 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

Please just stop.


Ummmm.

No.

View PostTheGreyWolfe, on 07 December 2018 - 03:15 AM, said:

I do understand that other people like things that I do not like. I guess what I don't understand is the desire to play and vote for a game mode that is clearly broken and is just not fun for the majority of players in a match.


Just because everyone else doesn't like it means we shouldn't play it.

We aren't looking at a situation where 20% of matches are Escort. It's one of six modes and is almost always voted down in favor of Skirmish or Domination. In my experience it's closer to 5% or even 1%. They're rare.

There's a cadre of us who suffer through the other modes for you. You can do the same for us.

View PostMcgral18, on 05 December 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

You could avoid Long Tom by not playing CW

You cannot avoid the Very Important Potato (without wanting to play Solaris)


You can avoid it by not playing QP.

#49 TheGreyWolfe

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 11:30 AM

View PostJables McBarty, on 07 December 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

There's a cadre of us who suffer through the other modes for you. You can do the same for us

Escort is not balanced between the two teams. All other modes are symmetric. Yes this mode attempts to be asymmetric, but extremely poorly thought through asymmetric. It's an attempt to make a "asymmetric combat mode" fit into a symmetric arena combat game. My plea is to stop forcing other players to join into mode - and if you admit that it's asymmetric and keep voting for it, then you'll need to accept that other people will think you're trolling. Again, there's a difference between "like/favor" and "balanced/fair".

Trust me - I've either made the defender team suffer when in this mode (if I am able, potatoes being potatoes) - or I have suffered because of the game mechanics (free radar locks can kill lights/meds pretty quick if defenders have missile boats).

I'll out myself for being one that believes that if you are only going to offer Arena based / Non-simulation based combat as your QP primary game modes - then all combat should be symmetric between two teams. For example - I do not play FP because I believe it is horrible in its balance between "defenders" / "assault" (but not the point of this thread - as I'm not going to rail against what I don't play; just what I am 'trolled' into playing).

I clearly get that MWO is not a simulation game (look up my posts I've pointed this out in the past) - but the reason for my OP is that the devs refuse to attempt resolve the issue and make it more symmetric. So it was a plea to the player base, nothing more. Trolls will be trolls and we all will carry on. As everything is - this is IMHO - and YMMV.

Edited by TheGreyWolfe, 08 December 2018 - 11:31 AM.


#50 Rainer Frost

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:31 PM

View PostBush Hopper, on 02 December 2018 - 02:35 AM, said:


Let me guess, your favourite movie is Fifty Shades of Grey and you are a fan of Marquis de Sade? Posted Image

Almost.
Favorite movie - Terminator 2
Favorite author - Stanislaw Lem
However, I do think everyone who likes Battletech/Mechwarrior needs a certain masochistic streak to enjoy MWO.

Edited by Rainer Frost, 08 December 2018 - 03:32 PM.


#51 Mcgral18

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 06:29 PM

View PostSjorpha, on 07 December 2018 - 01:59 PM, said:

I also don't really understand why matches being won by completing the objective is somehow a bad thing, objective based modes should be won by objectives not elimination.


Because it isn't fun, and no longer an option to avoid

Tickboxes are Lostech

View PostJables McBarty, on 07 December 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

You can avoid it by not playing QP.


So, choose between the fustercluck that is Community Warfare, the Ghosttown that is Solaris, or the 2/5 RNGeesus poor gamemode roulette...hmm
Better to just not play the game


Comp doesn't have Escort, which is nice

Edited by Mcgral18, 08 December 2018 - 06:31 PM.


#52 Sjorpha

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 09:17 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 08 December 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:


Because it isn't fun, and no longer an option to avoid

Tickboxes are Lostech



Are you saying win conditions other than elimination isn't fun in principle, or only in the case of the current escort gamemode?

I think it's more fun to play for objectives in a lot of modes, for example in siege and conquest playing for the objectives makes the tactics much more interesting. Conquest in Faction Play is the best current mode IMO because it's one of the few modes where the objective is more important for winning than kills, but still doesn't lead to anything silly in terms of gameplay.

I do agree that escort leads to some silly gameplay, major design flaws. But the fix should be to make the objective more interesting to play for.

#53 AzureTerra

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 09:38 PM

charging the map vote meter sometimes shorts out

#54 gooddragon2

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 10:29 PM

The purpose of MWO is for people to do one of two things:
1>Play a 6 er large laser supernova and shoot people with it.
2>Move around to provide a more entertaining target for the people using a supernova with 6 er large lasers.

This mode doesn't prevent either of those things from happening. Even the Atlas moves around to provide a more entertaining target. So there's no problem here.

#55 Mcgral18

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 07:35 AM

View PostSjorpha, on 08 December 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:


Are you saying win conditions other than elimination isn't fun in principle, or only in the case of the current escort gamemode?

I think it's more fun to play for objectives in a lot of modes, for example in siege and conquest playing for the objectives makes the tactics much more interesting. Conquest in Faction Play is the best current mode IMO because it's one of the few modes where the objective is more important for winning than kills, but still doesn't lead to anything silly in terms of gameplay.

I do agree that escort leads to some silly gameplay, major design flaws. But the fix should be to make the objective more interesting to play for.


Escort, Incursion, and to a degree Invasion all have critical issues regarding base rushing.
Those can end the 5 minute queue plus 5 minute walking immediately, resulting in wasted time and a bitter taste

I do not like that
That is not fun
that is the opposite of fun.

Conquest takes minutes to lose by caps, with counter plays fully viable
That is good design, and why it is used in Comp play, unlike the three above modes. I can avoid Invasion, which is nice, and they've added the generators. The other two, I cannot avoid, and nothing had been done to curb rushing.
Wasting 10 minutes is not fun

#56 Sjorpha

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 09:08 AM

View PostMcgral18, on 09 December 2018 - 07:35 AM, said:


Escort, Incursion, and to a degree Invasion all have critical issues regarding base rushing.
Those can end the 5 minute queue plus 5 minute walking immediately, resulting in wasted time and a bitter taste

I do not like that
That is not fun
that is the opposite of fun.

Conquest takes minutes to lose by caps, with counter plays fully viable
That is good design, and why it is used in Comp play, unlike the three above modes. I can avoid Invasion, which is nice, and they've added the generators. The other two, I cannot avoid, and nothing had been done to curb rushing.
Wasting 10 minutes is not fun


When it comes to seige, all out rushing doesn't work well against a good defense. In my opinion rushes against undefended objectives can't be seen as a problem, it's only if the rush tactic is unfairly hard to stop that it can be regarded as a balance issue. If defending teams just don't anticipate rushes as a possibility and disregard defending the objective, they aren't actually playing the game mode and then it doesn't really matter if they lose to a rush IMO.

#57 Mcgral18

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 10:11 AM

View PostSjorpha, on 09 December 2018 - 09:08 AM, said:

If defending teams just don't anticipate rushes as a possibility and disregard defending the objective, they aren't actually playing the game mode and then it doesn't really matter if they lose to a rush IMO.


When the buildings have less HP than the mechs, that's a moot point

Rushing is easier than defending, especially in the PUG LIFE
Though neither are particularly likely there, seeing as it's Potato Land

#58 Blockwart

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 03:09 PM

View PostTheGreyWolfe, on 01 December 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

Every match - I say the same thing - just stop voting for this mode.
...
Please just stop.

I prefer to vote for what I like, not what someone wants me to vote for





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