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Why Mw5 Will Be A Flop


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#141 Davegt27

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 08:10 PM

the best part about MWO is the mech on mech combat


so you wont have that with MW5
(edit: you wont have the same type of Mech on Mech combat that has made MWO such a success)

it will a play through game like MW2 was
basically you run through completing all the missions after that you put the game on the self (so to speak)

saying it will flop is to harsh (a term I have used)

also its very very hard to come up with a winning combination (for a game) it takes luck more then anything

I hope I am wrong but based on all the games I have bought since the early 1980's that's my experience

Edited by Davegt27, 07 December 2018 - 08:06 PM.


#142 Y E O N N E

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 08:57 PM

MW5 has 'Mech on 'Mech combat, dude...

#143 kuma8877

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 09:31 PM

View PostDiptoman Mukherjee, on 06 December 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:

Hey guys - I'm a technical designer on MW5, thought I'd clear up some misconceptions in this thread about the game.

"Hopefully they do provide the modding support they promised"
- As far as I'm aware you guys will have access to all the tools we as designers have access to, and some which we made (like the mission creator, destructible building BPs etc.) in addition to data files/the other usual moddable stuff. You can do a helluva lot with this. Posted Image

"You can walk through a building like a football player bursts through a paper banner."
- So we actually had resistance in the game before ('slowfields' as we call it). A few of us thought that while it made logical sense, it didn't "feel good" as far as gameplay was concerned - which is why we wanted to test out how it felt by completely removing it. We'll be iterating on this (with different values etc.) now that we have more feedback from Mech Con (plus comments), so I'd say current footage isn't an indication of the final product.

"No penalty for destroying friendly buildings"
- If you guys noticed on the showcased video, the "Defend The Farm" objective actually had a building counter - and the mission would've failed if that reached zero. We could of course do more - possibly direct in-game feedback, and in terms of faction reputation, and will be looking into that once other priorities are done.

Concerns about AI
- The AI is already in a much better state than what was shown, but we tuned it way down for the demo - since we didn't want people to die constantly in the demo (you'd be surprised how many people died or came close to dying even with those difficulty settings while playing). Having said that, there are lots of room for improvement of course, and we have people working on AI all the time to achieve that (be it how they act their roles, respond to threats, navigate, their prioritizations etc.) Posted Image

No Mechlab
- There is a Mech Lab. I can't talk about details yet, but you guys should be getting details when it's ready.

In regards to the resistance of passing through buildings, might it be possible to emulate the feel of "points of tension" as you push through the building? Rather than a general slow down? By this I mean, points at which a small slow down happens, to represent a piece of structure actively giving way. Possibly tied to the visual damage state levels the building passes through before crumbling? Places that feel like more force is being exerted briefly?

Edited by kuma8877, 06 December 2018 - 09:34 PM.


#144 Diptoman Mukherjee

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 09:59 PM

View Postkuma8877, on 06 December 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

In regards to the resistance of passing through buildings, might it be possible to emulate the feel of "points of tension" as you push through the building? Rather than a general slow down? By this I mean, points at which a small slow down happens, to represent a piece of structure actively giving way. Possibly tied to the visual damage state levels the building passes through before crumbling? Places that feel like more force is being exerted briefly?

I can't say for the future - but a full implementation of something like that is out of scope right now.

Having said that, there are multiple kinds of buildings in the game - including those that have a "central core" (not entirely destructible) and those that do not (entirely destructible), among other kinds. In essence, buildings with cores would serve as a point of tension where you chip away at parts of the outer building before you come to a halt (a guard tower in one of the previous videos is an example).

What we will try in our current situation - once we've decided how we're adjusting slowfields - we'll adjust values so different buildings slow you down differently and it's not a blanket slowdown. In the end, we'll have to decide on what "feels good" gameplay-wise and go with that.

We also have to keep in mind building destruction in co-op, where all that data has to get to the other clients which strains bandwidth - so we need to be careful about our implementation and the level of complexity.

Hope that clears a few things up!

#145 Aggravated Assault Mech

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:52 PM

Holy is morale ever low around here... not that it isn't a surprise but wow.

I thought it looked pretty good. The level design actually looked like a nice change from the claustrophobia of MWO. Levels that replicate how the world actually looks vs. levels made for an arena shooter.

The demo gameplay looked poorly optimized for joystick. Didn't look very fun to play and I question why they didn't show mouse and keyboard gameplay (since that's now the majority of people play anyways).

Edited by Aggravated Assault Mech, 06 December 2018 - 10:55 PM.


#146 Vxheous

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 11:06 PM

View PostAggravated Assault Mech, on 06 December 2018 - 10:52 PM, said:

The demo gameplay looked poorly optimized for joystick. Didn't look very fun to play and I question why they didn't show mouse and keyboard gameplay (since that's now the majority of people play anyways).


They spent a lot of time, effort and money to build those superpods, so they wanted to show them off.

#147 Kaeb Odellas

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:10 AM

View PostDiptoman Mukherjee, on 06 December 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

I can't say for the future - but a full implementation of something like that is out of scope right now.

Having said that, there are multiple kinds of buildings in the game - including those that have a "central core" (not entirely destructible) and those that do not (entirely destructible), among other kinds. In essence, buildings with cores would serve as a point of tension where you chip away at parts of the outer building before you come to a halt (a guard tower in one of the previous videos is an example).

What we will try in our current situation - once we've decided how we're adjusting slowfields - we'll adjust values so different buildings slow you down differently and it's not a blanket slowdown. In the end, we'll have to decide on what "feels good" gameplay-wise and go with that.

We also have to keep in mind building destruction in co-op, where all that data has to get to the other clients which strains bandwidth - so we need to be careful about our implementation and the level of complexity.

Hope that clears a few things up!


Could his suggestion be accomplished with multiple stacked slowfields?

#148 Gully D

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:41 AM

View PostUnofficialOperator, on 01 December 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:

Personally I don't think MW5 will be a flop.

I believe that there is a trend towards Single Player games as gamers will be trying to avoid all the toxicity (ironical I know) from forced pvp.

As long as they can make SP engaging... there is no need for online play.

,
Um pvp is huge ie overwatch fortnite and the ongoing dota etc

#149 Gully D

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:56 AM

View PostDiptoman Mukherjee, on 06 December 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

I can't say for the future - but a full implementation of something like that is out of scope right now.

Having said that, there are multiple kinds of buildings in the game - including those that have a "central core" (not entirely destructible) and those that do not (entirely destructible), among other kinds. In essence, buildings with cores would serve as a point of tension where you chip away at parts of the outer building before you come to a halt (a guard tower in one of the previous videos is an example).

What we will try in our current situation - once we've decided how we're adjusting slowfields - we'll adjust values so different buildings slow you down differently and it's not a blanket slowdown. In the end, we'll have to decide on what "feels good" gameplay-wise and go with that.

We also have to keep in mind building destruction in co-op, where all that data has to get to the other clients which strains bandwidth - so we need to be careful about our implementation and the level of complexity.

Hope that clears a few things up!


thanks for sharing
1 - Fantastic you came on here and replied
2 - keep replying
3 - the majority of your potential audience/buyers are not here and will probably not have played MWO or other I predict and will try the universe first time
4 - the competition of other games feel/graphics are more important than what we say here (ducks for cover) disposable income etc
5 - Can anyone from marketing come and chat with us? I would be really interested in how they are pitching the game
thankyou

#150 Peter2k

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:01 AM

View PostDiptoman Mukherjee, on 06 December 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

I can't say for the future - but a full implementation of something like that is out of scope right now.


On a personal question regarding development (and my God thank you for coming to the forum); is Unreal Engine easier/better/more fun to work with then the old CryEnigne?

I'm asking because many times Paul or Russ said this and that is not possible because of technical limitations, or stuff being too difficult to do (and would therefore not be an efficient way of spending dev time).

Are things better with the newer engine?
Is it easier to do the things you guys want to achieve as a game maker?

Map making has always been slow in MWO, was that because its kind of clunky in MWO?

I realize that not every development thing is your department, I just want to get a feel of how it is working with UE compared to CryEngine for you guys, or how the team feels on the issue.

thx

#151 Peter2k

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:08 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 06 December 2018 - 08:57 PM, said:

MW5 has 'Mech on 'Mech combat, dude...


And so much more.

What FP and MWO as a whole (modes) could've been if we had AI/tanks/Infantry.
Hell I'd take a drop against AI mechs and tanks over a ghost drop any day.

Edited by Peter2k, 07 December 2018 - 05:09 AM.


#152 Knight Captain Morgan

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:16 AM

If MW5: Mercenaries delivers the following;

-Hot mech on mech action
-A decent Mercenary sim game
-Poor internet connection not affecting gameplay
-Victory/defeat not being pre determined by a borked matchmaker
-not having to put up with 11 dumbasses

then it has already succeeded.

#153 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 06:42 AM

View PostPeter2k, on 07 December 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:


On a personal question regarding development (and my God thank you for coming to the forum); is Unreal Engine easier/better/more fun to work with then the old CryEnigne?

I'm asking because many times Paul or Russ said this and that is not possible because of technical limitations, or stuff being too difficult to do (and would therefore not be an efficient way of spending dev time).

Are things better with the newer engine?
Is it easier to do the things you guys want to achieve as a game maker?

Map making has always been slow in MWO, was that because its kind of clunky in MWO?

I realize that not every development thing is your department, I just want to get a feel of how it is working with UE compared to CryEngine for you guys, or how the team feels on the issue.

thx

the Cry 3 very old and the newest Cry 5 with VR support and the customercan self say what her paid with no restictions in Engine or Copyrights for he Endproduct thats her build with the engine
Both engines with her Tolls very powerfull and Tools (ok many says the Cry have a better Lightning for Outdoor Enviroments ?) ...converting a old C3 to C5 says specialist is a work from 6 Months.
have little worked with Cry 5 (for MWO amps) and UR (for Ark Surv.Maps) ...as old Cryworker the Cry 5 Engine UI is more familiar for me .

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 07 December 2018 - 06:45 AM.


#154 Peter2k

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:16 AM

View PostOld MW4 Ranger, on 07 December 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

the Cry 3 very old and the newest Cry 5 with VR support and the customercan self say what her paid with no restictions in Engine or Copyrights for he Endproduct thats her build with the engine
Both engines with her Tolls very powerfull and Tools (ok many says the Cry have a better Lightning for Outdoor Enviroments ?) ...converting a old C3 to C5 says specialist is a work from 6 Months.
have little worked with Cry 5 (for MWO amps) and UR (for Ark Surv.Maps) ...as old Cryworker the Cry 5 Engine UI is more familiar for me .


Have you noticed how the only good performing games (or with open big maps) using CryEngine come from CryTech?

Star Citizen performance is nothing to brag about, and neither is the speed they develop at.

I liked Prey, but it had small levels and some very bad graphics when you knew where to look for them (not that it mattered gameplay wise).
Homefront: The Revolution performed terrible for me and Kingdom Come: Deliverance is like the game to bring systems to its knees.

And CryEngine V?
there is not a single game on that list being developed with that I even heard of, or probably ever will.

UE can also do VR and DX 12 or Vulkan these days.

I asked if UE is easier to handle, or fun to work with, because it would make me hopeful that PGI can maybe churn out more content in a timely fashion instead of having to fight the engine to do what they want it to do.

#155 Prototelis

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:22 AM

View PostDiptoman Mukherjee, on 06 December 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:

Hey guys - I'm a technical designer on MW5, thought I'd clear up some misconceptions in this thread about the game.

"Hopefully they do provide the modding support they promised"
- As far as I'm aware you guys will have access to all the tools we as designers have access to, and some which we made (like the mission creator, destructible building BPs etc.) in addition to data files/the other usual moddable stuff. You can do a helluva lot with this. Posted Image

"You can walk through a building like a football player bursts through a paper banner."
- So we actually had resistance in the game before ('slowfields' as we call it). A few of us thought that while it made logical sense, it didn't "feel good" as far as gameplay was concerned - which is why we wanted to test out how it felt by completely removing it. We'll be iterating on this (with different values etc.) now that we have more feedback from Mech Con (plus comments), so I'd say current footage isn't an indication of the final product.

"No penalty for destroying friendly buildings"
- If you guys noticed on the showcased video, the "Defend The Farm" objective actually had a building counter - and the mission would've failed if that reached zero. We could of course do more - possibly direct in-game feedback, and in terms of faction reputation, and will be looking into that once other priorities are done.

Concerns about AI
- The AI is already in a much better state than what was shown, but we tuned it way down for the demo - since we didn't want people to die constantly in the demo (you'd be surprised how many people died or came close to dying even with those difficulty settings while playing). Having said that, there are lots of room for improvement of course, and we have people working on AI all the time to achieve that (be it how they act their roles, respond to threats, navigate, their prioritizations etc.) Posted Image

No Mechlab
- There is a Mech Lab. I can't talk about details yet, but you guys should be getting details when it's ready.


My dude, there has been one question burning in my mind since this game was announced and after every trailer/demo.


Will there be squishies?


#156 Dread Render

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:32 AM

TLDR
It will not be a flop because everyone including me will buy it because its all there is out there.
so shadddapp.
your Mom is a flop.

#157 Diptoman Mukherjee

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 10:05 AM

View PostKaeb Odellas, on 07 December 2018 - 12:10 AM, said:


Could his suggestion be accomplished with multiple stacked slowfields?

Theoretically yes. Practically it might feel jarring. Ultimately we have to find a balance between what's possible for us given our time/resources, what's fun, and what makes logical sense in terms of a sim. Posted Image

View PostPeter2k, on 07 December 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:


On a personal question regarding development (and my God thank you for coming to the forum); is Unreal Engine easier/better/more fun to work with then the old CryEnigne?

I'm asking because many times Paul or Russ said this and that is not possible because of technical limitations, or stuff being too difficult to do (and would therefore not be an efficient way of spending dev time).

Are things better with the newer engine?
Is it easier to do the things you guys want to achieve as a game maker?

Map making has always been slow in MWO, was that because its kind of clunky in MWO?

I realize that not every development thing is your department, I just want to get a feel of how it is working with UE compared to CryEngine for you guys, or how the team feels on the issue.

thx

I was never on the MWO team, so I cannot really say that. Some devs really like UE4's usability and workflow though.


Just a reminder I can only answer on topics I'm knowledgeable about and what I'm allowed to say within reason.

Cheers!

#158 Prototelis

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 10:37 AM

View PostDiptoman Mukherjee, on 07 December 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

Theoretically yes. Practically it might feel jarring. Ultimately we have to find a balance between what's possible for us given our time/resources, what's fun, and what makes logical sense in terms of a sim. Posted Image


I was never on the MWO team, so I cannot really say that. Some devs really like UE4's usability and workflow though.


Just a reminder I can only answer on topics I'm knowledgeable about and what I'm allowed to say within reason.

Cheers!



Do you have the knowledge of whether or not there are squishies? IE, are there little NPCs I can crush under my giant iron feet?

#159 Vill Nye

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:07 PM

It was nice of you guys to let someone who had never played a MW game be the camera viewpoint. It was interesting seeing the new player experience

Edited by Klann Schreck, 07 December 2018 - 04:08 PM.


#160 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 12:23 AM

View PostPeter2k, on 07 December 2018 - 07:16 AM, said:


Have you noticed how the only good performing games (or with open big maps) using CryEngine come from CryTech?

Star Citizen performance is nothing to brag about, and neither is the speed they develop at.

I liked Prey, but it had small levels and some very bad graphics when you knew where to look for them (not that it mattered gameplay wise).
Homefront: The Revolution performed terrible for me and Kingdom Come: Deliverance is like the game to bring systems to its knees.

And CryEngine V?
there is not a single game on that list being developed with that I even heard of, or probably ever will.

UE can also do VR and DX 12 or Vulkan these days.

I asked if UE is easier to handle, or fun to work with, because it would make me hopeful that PGI can maybe churn out more content in a timely fashion instead of having to fight the engine to do what they want it to do.


The URengine has the same problems seeing ark survival ...performance is a big problem in this game .a cryengine game with cry5 is war of the right as example
https://warofrights.com
Or aporia and hunt:showdown
And VR and dx12 no problems for the cry 5..both engines powerfull and have her own problems (look in the forums for UE games or UE modders like Ark survival )

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 08 December 2018 - 12:55 AM.






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