91 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Kiran Yagami, on 03 December 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

I don't care as much about the look, but I'm so freakin' tired of IS assaults with obnoxiously low engine caps. It's not like we aren't handicapped enough on speed that we need an artificial handicap installed to make us even slower. You might be able to play around slower mechs in group queue, but in QP the slow assaults always get left behind by the team of can't run in circles fast enough and get swarmed by 4 Piranhas on any map larger than Canyon. Hell, if I was allowed to know which map I was playing on BEFORE I chose my mech, my Fafnir might actually see some use. But the second I load it up and hit the queue button I find myself on Caustic Valley and somehow in Bravo Lance, spawned the furthest away from my teammates and in the opposite direction from which they plan to circle, leading to shortest and most frustrating match of my day. Why can't they throw IS assaults a bone and at least give us the OPTION of having a faster engine to keep up with the toilet flush? Why these mandatory engine maximums that gimp the chassis?

It would be nice if Pee Gee Eye rounded most engine caps up to the nearest multiple of 25, i.e. 345 becomes 350 and 290 becomes 300.

[Khobai]

FupDup, on 03 December 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

It would be nice if Pee Gee Eye rounded most engine caps up to the nearest multiple of 25, i.e. 345 becomes 350 and 290 becomes 300.

I dont think thats really the problem. Its hard to put anything bigger than a 325 into an IS Assault and still have enough firepower to take on a Clan Assault. And the best IS assaults are the slowest ones anyway like the Annihilator. So lack of speed isnt the issue.

The problem has always been the core techbase imbalances between IS and Clan which PGI adamantly refuses to address. Namely how much worse IS DHS are compared to C DHS, how much worse IS FF/ES is compared to C FF/ES, and how much worse IS engines are compared to CXL.

The Corsair would be perfectly fine if the IS techbase was equal to the clan techbase.

Edited by Khobai, 03 December 2018 - 12:30 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 03 December 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

I dont think thats really the problem. Its hard to put anything bigger than a 325 into an IS Assault and still have enough firepower to take on a Clan Assault.

The problem has always been the techbase imbalances between IS and Clan which PGI adamantly refuses to address.

The non-25-multiple engines aren't as important as inferior tech, obviously, but it would still improve quality of life for a number of gundams.

[Scout Derek]

Khobai, on 03 December 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

I dont think thats really the problem. Its hard to put anything bigger than a 325 into an IS Assault and still have enough firepower to take on a Clan Assault. And the best IS assaults are the slowest ones anyway like the Annihilator. So lack of speed isnt the issue.

The problem has always been the techbase imbalances between IS and Clan which PGI adamantly refuses to address. Namely how much worse IS DHS are compared to C DHS, how much worse IS FF/ES is compared to C FF/ES, and how much worse IS engines are compared to CXL.

Putting a lfe 345 into the Corsair with Endo upgrade yields 43 tons.

That's enough to take dual gauss and whatever else you want.

[Khobai]

Scout Derek, on 03 December 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

Putting a lfe 345 into the Corsair with Endo upgrade yields 43 tons.

That's enough to take dual gauss and whatever else you want.

Dual gauss and some IS lasers is not a particularly scary loadout for a 95 ton IS assault.

Why not just play a madcat MK2? Thats kindve the point that clan mechs do it better...

The two techbases arnt even close to equal. Its super unbalanced and PGI seems completely clueless about it.

Edited by Khobai, 03 December 2018 - 12:36 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

Nightbird, on 03 December 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

Just as well or less well? For example, you can do the same AC20+SRM build on an Ebon as a Roughneck, both 65 tons. Between two equally skilled pilots, would the Ebon ever win? No. That's a fight lost in the mechlab, because the mech doesn't support that role. Actual performance = mech performance + piloting skill. Ignore the former and you will do less well so do it at your own peril.

I said less orthodox, not inferior. Put that pilot in a Vindicator with a Heavy PPC and suddenly that match gets a lot more interesting even though only one of them is running the meta.

It's a rhetorical question. Do you have builds that you perform equally well to the meta even though they look terrible on paper. If the answer is yes there's really only one of two answers:
1 - You have good synergy with your builds
2 - You've discovered a new meta

[R Valentine]

Scout Derek, on 03 December 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

Putting a lfe 345 into the Corsair with Endo upgrade yields 43 tons.

That's enough to take dual gauss and whatever else you want.

So a slower, less armed, shorter ranged, worse hardpoint Madcat Mk II? Why not just play... the Mad Cat Mk II? Speed is just a symptom of glaring tech imbalances, but that all said, I could make some other mechs work if I could at least make them go somewhat fast. I'll never understand the point of crippling engine caps.

[Scout Derek]

Khobai, on 03 December 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

Dual gauss and some IS lasers is not a particularly scary loadout for a 95 ton IS assault.

Why not just play a madcat MK2? Thats kindve the point that clan mechs do it better...

The two techbases arnt even close to equal. Its super unbalanced and PGI seems completely clueless about it.

I mean if you wanna talk quickplay or tech base vs tech base sure. I'm just talking about Inner Sphere mechs only I should have specified.

Kiran Yagami, on 03 December 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

So a slower, less armed, shorter ranged, worse hardpoint Madcat Mk II? Why not just play... the Mad Cat Mk II? Speed is just a symptom of glaring tech imbalances, but that all said, I could make some other mechs work if I could at least make them go somewhat fast. I'll never understand the point of crippling engine caps.

Both of you compare it to the mad cat II. Is that the only comparison you have to share?

[Blindbeard the Pirate]

Scout Derek, on 03 December 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

Putting a lfe 345 into the Corsair with Endo upgrade yields 43 tons.

That's enough to take dual gauss and whatever else you want.

Did they suddenly add crit splitting, or did they let us actually disable the actuators or give it extra pod space in the torsos or something? Because afaik there isn't a mech currently that can run heavy gauss with any light engine, and the gauss+laser IS mechs haven't done that well for ages without quirks.

Edited by Ulriya Sykora, 03 December 2018 - 01:01 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Ulriya Sykora, on 03 December 2018 - 01:01 PM, said:

Did they suddenly add crit splitting, or did they let us actually disable the actuators or give it extra pod space in the torsos or something? Because afaik there isn't a mech currently that can run heavy gauss with any light engine, and the gauss+laser IS mechs haven't done that well for ages without quirks.

I'm talking about regular gauss. Regular gauss is just as efficient as heavy gauss.

[Daurock]

Ulriya Sykora, on 03 December 2018 - 01:01 PM, said:

Did they suddenly add crit splitting, or did they let us actually disable the actuators or give it extra pod space in the torsos or something? Because afaik there isn't a mech currently that can run heavy gauss with any light engine, and the gauss+laser IS mechs haven't done that well for ages without quirks.

I suspect he's thinking standard Gauss.

Still though, since XL in IS assaults is at best a niche thing, a 345 should be plenty of cap to work with. I don't think i even have an LFE in my garage bigger than a 325. If i need more speed than that LFE 325 can add, I'm usually better off going to a smaller mech anyway.

[Blindbeard the Pirate]

Daurock, on 03 December 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

I suspect he's thinking standard Gauss.

Still though, since XL in IS assaults is at best a niche thing, a 345 should be plenty of cap to work with. I don't think i even have an LFE in my garage bigger than a 325. If i need more speed than that LFE 325 can add, I'm usually better off going to a smaller mech anyway.

I'm using a light 340 on a banshee with 3x LPL, 4x ML and a light gauss rifle. I can pretty much imagine porting the same build over, minus a laser, but unless it's got really good agility or enormous armour quirks it's just going to die a horrible death without MASC or something punchier like heavy gauss. 2x gauss on anything is just going to explode without case, anyway, and by then you're probably just running six medium lasers and feeling like a clan mech with worse agility and a slower engine.

Edited by Ulriya Sykora, 03 December 2018 - 01:07 PM.

[R Valentine]

Scout Derek, on 03 December 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

I mean if you wanna talk quickplay or tech base vs tech base sure. I'm just talking about Inner Sphere mechs only I should have specified.



Both of you compare it to the mad cat II. Is that the only comparison you have to share?

I'm sorry, did I need another? I can put Dual gauss on a lot of clan mechs and go faster and have more guns. Blood Asp. Ebon Jaguar. Night Gyr. Scorch. IS was always terrible at dual gauss once clans became a thing. No mech they've released sense has changed that. Even dual heavy gauss has a lot of handicaps compared to dual c-gauss.

[Scout Derek]

Kiran Yagami, on 03 December 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

I'm sorry, did I need another? I can put Dual gauss on a lot of clan mechs and go faster and have more guns. Blood Asp. Ebon Jaguar. Night Gyr. Scorch. IS was always terrible at dual gauss once clans became a thing. No mech they've released sense has changed that. Even dual heavy gauss has a lot of handicaps compared to dual c-gauss.

...Why are you comparing two separate tech bases, let alone two different weapons?

When has there ever been a balance between the two tech bases?

I know you wanna absolutely call it garbage because of what it is but I do remember people saying the Arctic Wolf was DOA, the Annihilator was DOA.

So I'm going against the usual grain and say it'll be viable, more viable than some of the other mechs the sphere has employed here

[Blindbeard the Pirate]

Scout Derek, on 03 December 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

...Why are you comparing two separate tech bases, let alone two different weapons?

When has there ever been a balance between the two tech bases?

I know you wanna absolutely call it garbage because of what it is but I do remember people saying the Arctic Wolf was DOA, the Annihilator was DOA.

So I'm going against the usual grain and say it'll be viable, more viable than some of the other mechs the sphere has employed here

I mean, if they give it annihilator level armour quirks or let it run 130kph and unload 36 SRM6As into someone's butt, sure it'll be viable, but people are going to compare it to the night star, banshee, and the clan mechs that parallel its entire hardpoint layout. Depending on where the hardpoints are located, it's got some harsh and already heavily quirked competition. If it drops like the thanatos did and those side torsos don't have like +20 armour or something by default, they're getting deleted.

No inner sphere mech is going to be as good as a clan mech boating gauss because you'll be 10-15kph slower and probably need to find room for CASE or you'll blow the instant a machine gun hits you. The laser vomit builds are going to be a can of worms compared to the battlemaster and banshee. It's not going to boat enough MRMs or SRMs to be really scary in a brawl. If you throw heavy gauss on it, you're probably hoping it has better ballistic quirks than the cyclops and mauler.

It'll still work out fine, it's just not going to be... really good at anything? It'll just be okay in a sea of other okay options. Assuming they give it armour quirks and not structure quirks. If it's just got structure you're piranha food with a 345 in there. It's still better than a lot of other inner sphere mechs, but a lot of inner sphere mechs may as well be extinct because they've been powercrept to heck and back.

[MisterSomaru]

I think y'all talking Meta don't even know what the heck it means. It is literally the "Most Effective Tactic Available". I don't think anyone who can even explain what it even is should even be throwing it around to begin with. There is also a meta that exists for *every* mech, even if the mech is a steaming pile of refuse.
A meta build is simply the most effective build on that mech. A meta MECH is generally regarded as one of, if not THE most effective/powerful mechs available for use.
Yes, there was a Meta, even for stock worlds, and it was even more limiting than previous tourneys/seasons. So, there is a meta for everything.
Please don't throw your ignorance around.

[Scout Derek]

Ulriya Sykora, on 03 December 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

I mean, if they give it annihilator level armour quirks or let it run 130kph and unload 36 SRM6As into someone's butt, sure it'll be viable, but people are going to compare it to the night star, banshee, and the clan mechs that parallel its entire hardpoint layout. Depending on where the hardpoints are located, it's got some harsh and already heavily quirked competition. If it drops like the thanatos did and those side torsos don't have like +20 armour or something by default, they're getting deleted.

No inner sphere mech is going to be as good as a clan mech boating gauss because you'll be 10-15kph slower and probably need to find room for CASE or you'll blow the instant a machine gun hits you. The laser vomit builds are going to be a can of worms compared to the battlemaster and banshee. It's not going to boat enough MRMs or SRMs to be really scary in a brawl. If you throw heavy gauss on it, you're probably hoping it has better ballistic quirks than the cyclops and mauler.

It'll still work out fine, it's just not going to be... really good at anything? It'll just be okay in a sea of other okay options. Assuming they give it armour quirks and not structure quirks. If it's just got structure you're piranha food with a 345 in there. It's still better than a lot of other inner sphere mechs, but a lot of inner sphere mechs may as well be extinct because they've been powercrept to heck and back.

I find your hyperbole amusing.

I know people are comparing this to others like the banshee you mentioned. Some of them are going to become obselete simply because of difference of hard point location and geometry.

I'm not claiming it to be as good as clan mechs, I'm claiming it'll do decent and isn't DOA. And not good? Look at the hard points for each variant. One literally gets a ballistic on each side torso to use, and using actual visual evidence you can easily tell this thing will do just fine.

[Nightbird]

Given how high the hardpoints are, it's silly to compare it to the banshee.

[LordNothing]

Scout Derek, on 03 December 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

I really don't think 63 kph is slow. Anything less than 55kph is in my opinion.

idk about that. these days i can find myself getting left behind in a 80kph heavy with all the nascar that happens in qp. assaults running slower than 60 are no bueno imho. if you are going to run slower than that be equipped to deal with lights because thats the only way you will be useful. if by some miracle you can get that mech to the front before either your team gets wiped out or kills everything, then you might be able to do some damage and actually function as an assault mech.

only place big slow assaults get to shine is in fp. i love those seige attack assault pushes that just mows down everything in their path.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 December 2018 - 03:32 PM.

[Scout Derek]

LordNothing, on 03 December 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

idk about that. these days i can find myself getting left behind in a 80kph heavy with all the nascar that happens in qp. assaults running slower than 60 are no bueno imho. if you are going to run slower than that be equipped to deal with lights because thats the only way you will be useful. if by some miracle you can get that mech to the front before either your team gets wiped out or kills everything, then you might be able to do some damage and actually function as an assault mech.

Which is why you always keep to the front of the group in slow assaults and always keep moving. One eye on the minimap one eye on where everyone is going.

Anything slower than 54kph and I can't really keep up due to slow acceleration and low max speed. 60+kph is my sweet spot for moving in assaults.