534 replies to this topic

[Oor Wullie]

Eatit, on 19 February 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

I think there should be a Solo FW bucket. Similar to Solo Quick Play.

Here is where the new people can hone their skills in FW without the seal clubbers taking advantage of them. It's pretty simple and resolves all of the mentioned problems.

Solo Quick Play is the only mode that still exists in any meaningful capacity. Why not see if it works for FW too?

And as a reply to Ash's it has been this way since day 1 and will never change. It's dead now, maybe change was in order to keep it alive.

Paul, I hope you read this and see the wisdom. Solo Quick Play for FW, FTW!!

The new MM if it ever comes in will do this.

[Eatit]

I want to expand on my previous post a little. Solo Quick Play for FW.

It seems that everyone here is looking at the failure of FW and trying to fix it. Why not look at the one happy accident Solo Quick Play. It was put into the game as a placeholder for more meaningful modes to come later.

It is the only surviving mode. I can't stress that enough IT IS THE ONLY SURVIVING MODE!!!

You (PGI) made something great and it was just a happy accident. Work from there, take what you know works and apply it elsewhere.

The solo fw que doesn't have to effect the planet taking or anything like that. Not that anyone even cares about the planet taking. don't try to apply failed methods to the thing that is working try applying working methods to the things that are failing.

Wouldn't it be nice to sell some drop decks to new players?
Do you like money?
Wouldn't it be nice for the new players to have a place to learn to play?
I bet they might even buy a mech pack to fill out their drop deck.
Do you like money?

Start with what works and work from there. This is a simple thing. Don't start from failed attempts and try to fix.

Just my 2 cents, but I like money.

[Eatit]

Holy crap man, Solo Quick Play with drop decks....

I was getting my credit card out just thinking about it. Where do I spend my money, show me what I can buy? Would be nice if the largest portion of your player base was thinking like that wouldn't it?

Maybe you should cater to the 90%, it seems like they would spend more money than the 10%

I'm getting all hyped thinking about the resurgence of this amazing game I love so much. Next level solo quick play... what a concept... give that guy a cigar.

Put a cash tap into the people that aren't fans of the franchise!
Make a mode that caters to them and make new fans of the franchise!

You guys can do it!!! I have faith in you!!! Make a game everyone likes to play!!!

Edited by Eatit, 19 February 2019 - 01:49 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Eatit, on 19 February 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

I think there should be a Solo FW bucket. Similar to Solo Quick Play.

The population cannot support split buckets. That's already been acknowleged.

Thus was have a Match Maker coming which will seek to alleviate it.

I would suggest you go and look at it

[Eatit]

OK, I watched that and match 4 looked like some serious seal clubbing to me. That was the match where it pitted 1x 8 man and 2x 2 man against solo's. How exactly will that fix anything?

Changing the MM for a game mode that is horribly broken and dead doesn't sound like a way to bring in more players.

Making a new mode where new players aren't going to be farmed that is based on the most popular mode, solo quick play seems like a better idea.

[zerosouL]

While new MM doesnt sound terrible its way too late to make it work. There are far more solo players than groups which means its still gonna be same old groups farming pugs all over again. The only way to attract more players to the game and to the FP is to separate them from groups and let them be until they figure out on their own if they wanna get involved with more serious group play. Then up the rewards or implement some random rare **** distribution for GP and thats it.This is the only way to do it properly.

[Eatit]

I would venture a guess that the team players don't like my idea because it would remove most of the solo players from their Q. Making wait times in FW even longer. I get that. But, I'm not here to save some dead Q that should be buried and mourned. I'm not asking them to remove group play I'm asking them to add to solo play. Solo play that will allow solo players to enjoy FW without being farmed.

I'm here fighting for a new mode that might bring and keep new players. Players that may spend money and breathe new life into this aging game.

FW didn't work, solo quick play did. There is no shame in the fact that they didn't intentionally make solo qp as a mode but rather as a place holder. It is and always has been popular. There is in fact glory in having made something that people like. Accept that the thing you planned didn't work. Find the thing you made that did work and build on it. This is good advice for a business.

Stab a cash tap into the players that just want to shoot stompy mechs. Give them a new mode where they can thrive and spend money. I've read plenty of times on this forum people asking for respawns in quick play. Give them what they want.

This game isn't just for the true fans of the franchise, it's for everyone. It should be trying to recruit new people and turn them into fans of the franchise. Allowing long time players to farm new players is bad.

Tweet Russ and Paul with #soloquickplayforFW if you agree with me.

Tweet them with #butmahseals if you don't.

[justcallme A S H]

Eatit, on 19 February 2019 - 04:55 PM, said:

Making wait times in FW even longer. I get that.

It is apparent you do not.

You split the queues, you increase every single persons wait time.

That is not an acceptable outcome.

[Eatit]

It's my contention that the soloquickplayforFW Q will not be longer than current FW Q. It will be much shorter as many more players will be in it.

I think that it will draw new players. I feel that it my slow down the solo quick play Q somewhat but that it won't make a huge difference.

FW whether it be solo or team will grow thus reducing current wait times.

The proposed change to the MM is not going to increase participation in FW. Once the seal clubbing begins the solo players are going to stop playing. That is if the change even entices them to play in the first place.

[justcallme A S H]

Eatit, on 19 February 2019 - 06:56 PM, said:

It's my contention that the soloquickplayforFW Q will not be longer than current FW Q. It will be much shorter as many more players will be in it.

I think that it will draw new players.

MWO has seen a 40% decline in players per month in the past 20-22 months. All queues are suffering. It can take me 10mins+ now in low population times for Quick Play matches (8-12hrs of every 24hr cycle). Even US Peak it can take a while where that's never been the case.

So to say, many more, is a pipe dream and extremely unrealistic of the current landscape.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 19 February 2019 - 07:08 PM.

[Eatit]

justcallme A S H, on 19 February 2019 - 03:24 PM, said:

The population cannot support split buckets. That's already been acknowleged.

Thus was have a Match Maker coming which will seek to alleviate it.

I would suggest you go and look at it

Eatit, on 19 February 2019 - 04:26 PM, said:

OK, I watched that and match 4 looked like some serious seal clubbing to me. That was the match where it pitted 1x 8 man and 2x 2 man against solo's. How exactly will that fix anything?

I watched that video and replied to your post. You have not answered my question in regards to match #4 and how that wouldn't end up in seal clubbing.

It seems as though you don't have a valid point to stand on and are just posting here to promote your stream. Prove me wrong.

[Eatit]

Mr1Noob,

I'm not going to quote that mess the forum made of your post. I will say that a new mode of play that only requires the low cost creation of a que from the developer will entice people to play.

Solo Quick Play is the only viable Q left. That is because it's fun.
Adding a solo quick play Q for faction warfare is likely to be fun.

Team Based FW=not fun Current state=dead
Solo Quick Play=fun Current state=alive and well

Which one of those would you base a new mode on? Which one do you think has a better chance of attracting and keeping new players?

[Oor Wullie]

Paul Inouye, on 02 January 2019 - 03:38 PM, said:

First off, sorry if it has seemed like I went radio silent... well.. I guess in a way I did... I'm in a state a lot of salaried employees in high-tech here in British Columbia of needing to burn vacation days or I'll just straight up lose them. Still have a week plus I need to burn off. But I'm back in office for these first few days of January to ensure the FP Update is progressing.

That being said, here are the meeting minutes of today's prioritization and scope discussion:

Jan 2/2019
Primary discussion - Identify key pillars for the update and set priority.
Staff: Project Manager, Senior Software Engineer, Software Engineer, UI Software Engineer, Lead Designer

Pillar 1: Update the MM to sort groups and players according to the discussed points.

Spoiler

[b]	1.1Creating a singular queue system[/b]
[list]
[*]Faction Play queues will be merged into one single queue.
[*]Matches will kick off every [2] minutes.
[*]All Solo/Group players will be placed into this new singular queue.
[*]When the 2 minute launch timer runs out, the Match Maker uses a priority algorithm to create teams.
[/list]
[b]	1.1.1Prioritization Algorithm[/b]
[list]
[*]The Match Maker should sort the queue by group size and temporarily ignore Solo players.
[*]First priority is filling teams based on group size.
[list]
[*]Biggest groups should be placed on opposing teams in sequential order.
[*]If a group doesn’t fit in a group match, a new match will be created.
[*]This will continue until no more groups are in a free state in the queue.
[/list][*]Filling matches with Solo players
[list]
[*]The Match Maker should now sort all Solo players by their SSR (or Elo) rating.
[*]The Match Maker starts filling slots from the biggest group match to the smallest.
[*]The Match Maker should alternate placing Solo players from top to bottom in terms of SSR (or Elo) rating.
[*]If there are no further group matches available, a match will be created using the remaining solo players.
[*]If there are not enough solo players remaining for a match, they will be queued for the next match kick off in [2] minutes with priority placement above all other solo players entering the queue.
[/list]
[/list]

Pillar 2: Update participation choices and story driven conflicts.

Spoiler

[b]	Adding Participation Choice to Conflicts[/b]
[list]
[*]With the action of removing penalties from player faction/participation decisions, this update will look into making the choices more relevant while maintaining player freedom.
[*]Players choose their method of participation on a per event basis.
[*]It will be possible for a player to play both sides of a conflict between events.
[/list]
 
[b]	Participating as a Freelancer[/b]
[list]
[*]Freelancers are deposited into the general queue.
[*]Freelancers CANNOT enter the queue in a group.
[*]Priority for Solo players will be to fill gaps in the group queue if needed.
[*]Freelancers receive a slight [5%] XP boost for every match they play.
[/list]
[b]	Participating as a Merc Unit[/b]
[list]
[*]Merc Units are deposited into the general queue.
[*]Merc Unit participation requires a group of [2] or more. (Critical: this should be tunable via Configurations in MC^2)
[*]Merc Unit participation gains a small [5%] CB boost for every match they play.
[/list]
[b]	Participating as a Loyalist[/b]
[list]
[*]Loyalists are deposited into the general queue.
[*]Loyalists can join the general queue as a solo player or a group.
[*]Loyalists earn LP for loyalist titles and rewards.
[/list]
The reward structure for loyalists needs to be expanded.

These two pillars are considered 'core' to the update. These are not definitions as to the totality of the update, just the most important things to consider as 'must at least have these'. These two things take priority over all other MWO requests both internally and externally to PGI.

Point 1: Any member of a Merc Unit can choose the faction they wish to fight for during an event. However, once the decision has been made, that player is locked to that faction and cannot launch with Merc Unit members who did not make the same faction choice at the start of the event. Merc Units are expected to be organized and communicate with leaders/officers as to which Faction to align with for a given event. That being said, we will try to add more outward facing metrics to unit Leaders to see participation levels of each of their Unit members.

Point 2: An event can be a singular conflict or can be a series of chained conflicts/phases which will determine the outcome of the event overall.
Example:
Planet X is under attack from Faction A and is to be defended by Faction B. If Faction A wins, they will flip the planet in their favor. For the first part of this event, 12hrs of Scouting Mode only will occur as the attackers must gain information about the planet and its defenses. The next 24 hrs will be Skirmish on various maps between Faction A and B. (Players are still locked into the Faction they chose). The next 24hrs will be Assault on various maps between Faction A and B. (Players are still locked into the Faction they chose). The last 48hrs will be Siege on the map that makes the most sense for the planet's ambient environment. At the end, the Faction with the most wins over the course of the event, will be declared the victor. If Faction A has the most wins, the planet will flip ownership.

The above example is a simplified story of how a planet got taken over. The story will be much better written and will be fed in a sequential manner between the phases of the event. An event can be however long design makes it and can have branching story plot lines. For example, an event could be 5 days long... or it could be 1 hr long, it's scaleable depending on the story being told.

Please consider this the first out of many communications as to the progress of the FP update.

Spoiler 2 will stop the 2 queue system. No I don't like this idea. Any idea if they still thinking about putting this in?

sorry for previous post, finally got a game so just hit post before checking it.

Edited by Nr1Noob, 19 February 2019 - 07:47 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Eatit, on 19 February 2019 - 07:09 PM, said:

I watched that video and replied to your post. You have not answered my question in regards to match #4 and how that wouldn't end up in seal clubbing.

It seems as though you don't have a valid point to stand on and are just posting here to promote your stream. Prove me wrong.

I didn't feel the need to state the obvious. But here we go... In that video (which, is made up - please remember that)

The 8man has an overall ELO of 1909. The Random team has some higher ELO players that have now joined the queue. They should and would likely carry the game easily.


However in the real world - when you are not looking at a made up example - it is entirely posible the 8man is of LESSER quality than the Solos. It is also equally possible that it's the other way around. Either way - no one knows.

It is totally and utterly dependant on who is in the queue at the time.

End of the day the MM has done as good of a job as it can. Worrying about some random values Paul pulled for a video and using them as a basis for an argument is just pointless.

[Yondu Udonta]

Eatit, on 19 February 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

I think there should be a Solo FW bucket. Similar to Solo Quick Play.

Here is where the new people can hone their skills in FW without the seal clubbers taking advantage of them. It's pretty simple and resolves all of the mentioned problems.

Hone their skills? You mean 4x nascars? Most if not all the **** you learn in yolo queue means **** all in FP. I'd rather support units that pick up pilots interested in FP and hone their skills than letting potatoes run around treating it as QP with respawn.

Protecting new people from seal clubbers? More like keeping them inside the bubble thinking that their bracket builds are viable. People merely lack the perseverance to become good in FP, they get rolled once or twice and QQ that they got clubbed in their dropzone. Want to become better in FP? See what mechs and weapon systems the enemy is running, get advice from good players, ask to join good players in drops, watch their gameplay on streams and practice making conscious decisions instead of heading off on another nascar/suicide. People are just too lazy to learn how to play well in a team-based mode. You think FP should be a 'drop in muh 4 mechs, lose em and **** off', I rather you just do that in QP 4 times. Don't desecrate FP with your QP mentality.

[Simulacrum]

I agree with Eatit and with zerosouL.
zerosouL is right when he says it is too late to fix things in a bigger scale. But Eatit promotes the conclusion to give FW any meaning.

I didn't play FW for over one year because it is really, really, really boring to fight with a random group against a unit of 8-12 ppl. (So I don't get the new part of the MM as I can't see any difference to today.) It's like playing with one or two buddies a QP and fighting those groups with a unit of 8-12 ppl. You wait 10 minutes, see the overview and know that will match be just another given time.

If PGI gives FW a "solo player only" mode that game mode might get a chance to see a small revival as all these ppl who are fed up of getting crushed by bigger units may try FW in solo play again.
FW as it is now is dead. So FW for units is dead.Does anyone remember when your unit spontaneously gathered some ppl and had some really cool FW fights against other units, without scheduling the fights before - on one evening? Yeah, that's the problem.

FW for solo players might be fun. Just give it a try, there is nothing left to lose.

[Eatit]

justcallme A S H, on 19 February 2019 - 09:00 PM, said:

End of the day the MM has done as good of a job as it can. Worrying about some random values Paul pulled for a video and using them as a basis for an argument is just pointless.

I find it amusing that YOU posted this video to try to prove your point. Then when I tore that down showing exactly how it proved my point you treated it as if I had posted that video. Really?

I don't think you presented a single point that proves that 1x 8 man against solos is not going to end in seal clubbing. Especially if the 8 man were made up of emp or eon or some other good team.

He also showed 3x 12 man, how many times have you seen 3x 12 man in FW lately?

This MM will pit grouped veteran players against solos and that will almost always end in seal clubbing. You can try to defend it all you want.

I'm not asking them to take something away from you. I'm asking them to create something new for other people. People who just want to Nascar and shoot stompy mechs. You don't have to play in that Q. You probably shouldn't because I'm sure they would drag your skill down just being associated with them. And you may well have an aneurysm seeing all the derp.

While you may not agree with the play style of others and think that your play style is the only valid play style you would be wrong. People derive fun in different ways. For you it's being competitive and doing the absolute best you can. For others it may just be shooting their friends in the leg before the match. Or derping around in an insane build that doesn't hold up to competitive standards.

The Derp Q is still alive. The FW Q is dead. Ask yourself which mode of play is more fun to the majority.

Edited by Eatit, 20 February 2019 - 11:41 AM.

[Eatit]

Yondu Udonta, on 20 February 2019 - 01:26 AM, said:

Hone their skills? You mean 4x nascars? Most if not all the **** you learn in yolo queue means **** all in FP. I'd rather support units that pick up pilots interested in FP and hone their skills than letting potatoes run around treating it as QP with respawn.

Protecting new people from seal clubbers? More like keeping them inside the bubble thinking that their bracket builds are viable. People merely lack the perseverance to become good in FP, they get rolled once or twice and QQ that they got clubbed in their dropzone. Want to become better in FP? See what mechs and weapon systems the enemy is running, get advice from good players, ask to join good players in drops, watch their gameplay on streams and practice making conscious decisions instead of heading off on another nascar/suicide. People are just too lazy to learn how to play well in a team-based mode. You think FP should be a 'drop in muh 4 mechs, lose em and **** off', I rather you just do that in QP 4 times. Don't desecrate FP with your QP mentality.

I'm not asking them to change your precious FW Q. I'm asking them to add a new solo quick play FW que. You don't have to play there. I'm pretty sure it's people like you that have killed your FW Q. The people that just wanted to have fun don't like your play style and they left.

Your Q is dead, the derp Q is alive and kicking. Ask yourself if your play style is the most fun for the majority. I'll answer for you... nope it's not.

BTW: Tier 4 no matches on Jarl's? Why are you hiding behind an Alt?

Edited by Eatit, 20 February 2019 - 10:40 AM.

[Eatit]

Yondu Udonta, on 20 February 2019 - 01:26 AM, said:

Hone their skills? You mean 4x nascars? Most if not all the **** you learn in yolo queue means **** all in FP. I'd rather support units that pick up pilots interested in FP and hone their skills than letting potatoes run around treating it as QP with respawn.

Protecting new people from seal clubbers? More like keeping them inside the bubble thinking that their bracket builds are viable. People merely lack the perseverance to become good in FP, they get rolled once or twice and QQ that they got clubbed in their dropzone. Want to become better in FP? See what mechs and weapon systems the enemy is running, get advice from good players, ask to join good players in drops, watch their gameplay on streams and practice making conscious decisions instead of heading off on another nascar/suicide. People are just too lazy to learn how to play well in a team-based mode. You think FP should be a 'drop in muh 4 mechs, lose em and **** off', I rather you just do that in QP 4 times. Don't desecrate FP with your QP mentality.

The shear ridiculousness of this post makes me want to point out the stupidity over and over again.

Most if not all the **** you learn in yolo queue means **** all in FP.
You learn to Aim, Walk and twist, Map locations, situational awareness, and many other things that are learned through experience. To say that it means nothing is dumb.

More like keeping them inside the bubble thinking that their bracket builds are viable.
Maybe they don't care if their bracket build is viable. Maybe they just want to have fun role playing. Maybe being competitive isn't the end all be all that you think it is. Other people have other opinions. All people have opinions. They don't all align. And quess what, yours isn't the best or most popular opinion. FW is dead!!! Solo QP is alive!!! I would say that their opinion is more relevant than yours.

letting potatoes run around treating it as QP with respawn.
People don't like to play the way I do... It must be bad and they don't deserve to play.

People are just too lazy to learn how to play well in a team-based mode.
The majority of players don't like to play the way I think they should. Even though they have a larger cash pool the company making this game should not cater to them.

Don't desecrate FP with your QP mentality.
Desecrate the remains of a long dead game mode? I would say that since quick play is still living it's the better game mode. So asking a company to expand on what they have done right is a bad idea?

It sounds like you want to relive the glory days of FW. That isn't going to happen. Ash pointed out that the player base is in free fall. I get that you want to have a ton of competitive teams competing against you so that when you're number one it will mean something. That isn't going to happen right now. If we can entice and keep new players it may happen in the future. PooPooing a good idea to get those new players isn't helping anyone not even you.

[justcallme A S H]

Eatit, on 20 February 2019 - 10:21 AM, said:

I find it amusing that YOU posted this video to try to prove your point. Then when I tore that down showing exactly how it proved my point you treated it as if I had posted that video. Really?

The Derp Q is still alive. The FW Q is dead. Ask yourself which mode of play is more fun to the majority.

The video does prove the point of what the match maker will do. You then stuck to a specific (made-up) example to form the basis of an argument. It's now fallen apart. I guess you're just seemingly incapable of understanding what it means in a broader sense of the game/queue/population and the on-flow affects of it all.

Eatit, on 20 February 2019 - 10:21 AM, said:

The Derp Q is still alive. The FW Q is dead. Ask yourself which mode of play is more fun to the majority.

Already covered that:

justcallme A S H, on 19 February 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

It can take me 10mins+ now in low population times for Quick Play matches (8-12hrs of every 24hr cycle). Even US Peak it can take a while where that's never been the case.

So to say, many more, is a pipe dream and extremely unrealistic of the current landscape.

And no surprise, last night in SoloQ - Off Peak - I waited a number of times 6-10mins for matches. To try and say that isn't the reality is just being ignorant.

Eatit, on 20 February 2019 - 10:21 AM, said:

He also showed 3x 12 man, how many times have you seen 3x 12 man in FW lately?

A week and a half ago when I last played I had a 10-12man running and we came up against 5 different 10-12mans in a row.

Wanna try clutch another straw outta the stack?