534 replies to this topic

[50 50]

A solo's only queue might have worked when it was first tried out but it was done as a 'freelancer' queue which wasn't really a great way to do it.
Trying it out when there was also the release of Scouting as a brand new mode for us to try also didn't help.



Maybe it would still work at the absolute peak time when there might be enough players online to fill group and solo queues.

But it is yet another division of the player base, doubly so if it means having to do a solo queue for scouting as well and that would take our magnificent queue tally up to 23 I believe.

Queue tally being all the different regular PvP areas we can attempt to get a game in. It's worse if you add in comp queue, private lobbies and solo areas such as the testing grounds or academy.

So for the simple reason that more queues is not a good thing. No.



Ditch the additional servers?

Sure, why not.

That does stuff all for Faction Play, but for the love of gaming do it for quick play.



The proposed changes to the match maker are going to do stuff all as well. We already have the prioritizing of groups to build the teams and filling the gaps with solos so I don't see how sorting players by the SSR is going to help without having enough players in the queues anyway.



It might be all fine and dandy and seem like there isn't a problem in some timezones. But in other parts of the world it feels like there are barely enough players to get regular solo quick play matches.

And that, to me, is the single biggest and most pressing problem for MWO and it is a problem across all the modes because there is no functionality in the match maker to allow for smaller teams.



Lets put it this way.

IF the only time I have a chance of reliably getting a Faction Play drop is between a few hours either side of midday on a weekend, then there is simply not enough players in the mode and certainly not enough to split queues.



Many players don't want to be restricted from playing the mode whenever they want, nor from being able to group up with their friends or unit members. But if you can't even get a game in those modes (FP/Group QP) then what choice have you got but to go drop in Solo QP and try to get a match together. Sync dropping? Yeah sure, why not. I mean there are only 24 players in total in the queue. Could get a drink and a bite to eat and then click ready and it would still be sync dropping.



Solos are needed for FP because we don't have any structure or control on forming groups. This is also making it more difficult for the match maker. (I would also apply this problem to Group Quick Play btw)



IF groups were limited to either 2 or 4 players then it would be very easy for the match maker to put together a team of 12 players.

IF our group screen allowed us to link three groups instead of just being a single blob then we could have a way to allow individual groups to drop into a match while also allowing a way to get those groups into the same match. (After all, we are talking about the Group modes)

IF the match maker had the flexibility to allow smaller teams to form, based around the lance structure, then we have a function that will allow for matches to scale up and down without needing a new queue which would help immensely during off peak times and when there are players that spill over.



Given the current group priority in the mode, it would be reasonable to assume that for the matches you might then only get 2 or 4 solos in a team combining with the groups.

It would also be reasonable to assume that with the shunting, those solo players might end up in their own match anyway and play anywhere from a 4v4 to a full 12v12.



There are some other benefits to putting in a modular structure and giving flexibility to the match maker:

Scouting and Invasion could be a single queue and therefore we consolidate the playing population. (-1 buckit)

IF groups were also limited to only consist of players from a single clan or house faction, then it would be possible to have interfaction conflict between those clans and houses all in the one queue. This would mean something to loyalists in particular but is particularly relevant for units.



So with all the other bits and pieces that are being looked at for FP, I want to see two things addressed in this order:

The ability to get games reliably with minimal wait time. Please look at groups and team size restrictions (For Faction and Group Quick Play).
Allowing interfaction conflict and returning meaning to belonging to a faction. Please look at group composition and inter-faction match making.

Edited by 50 50, 27 February 2019 - 12:24 AM.

[Paul Inouye]

What the heck is going on in here?!?!?

Kidding.. writing an update today.. looking into the comments here and updating what I can tomorrow. What I mean by what I can, there are the two big components to the FP update... the match maker and the event driven FP system. These two items are 'mission critical' and have top priority. These two things are well under way, however, it also means there's not much to show/tell you guys on this front because it's a code strip then re-write. Nothing flashy to show, nothing to quickly pop into a patch. Once these two things are complete is when we have the chance to add a prioritized selection of what's listed in the OP. I'll go into more detail tomorrow and will talk on some of the points being raised in this thread.

And quit bickering... does nothing to move this discussion forward.

Now pick a reason from the list below as to why it's been a while since I last posted.


1) Decided to pick up binge drinking and have been blacked out.
2) Got locked in a Super Pod and just got released.
3) Had a nervous breakdown and have been eating crayons since.
4) Keeps looking in here and freaks out and runs away.
5) Silenced by client-attorney privilege.
6) Cannabis is legal in Canada now.
7) Was hacked and could not log in.
8) All of the above.

Will check back tomorrow.

[Deathshade]

don't look at me. Thanks for the update Paul <S> I will bravely go with 8

Edited by Deathshade, 28 February 2019 - 05:00 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

I will pragmatically vote for #4. (I'd do the same thing with all the salt on these forums).

[The6thMessenger]

Paul Inouye, on 28 February 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

7) Was hacked and could not log in.

Is your password password?

[Appogee]

nvm

Edited by Appogee, 28 February 2019 - 07:53 PM.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

The only Faction Play update I need, is the ability for solo players to opt out of a grouped match.

Edited by Humble Dexter, 28 February 2019 - 10:45 PM.

[Curccu]

Humble Dexter, on 28 February 2019 - 10:01 PM, said:

The only Faction Play update I need, is the ability for solo players to opt out of a grouped match.

Yes lets split this barely working player base even more...

edit: typo

Edited by Curccu, 01 March 2019 - 12:36 AM.

[Bishop Six]

Roland09, on 25 February 2019 - 03:00 PM, said:

IIRC, IS never won a Tukayyid event.

However, the glorious DCMS, led by Dear Coordinator himself, did defend Luthien from the Clan rabble.

I remember it were the Mercs who saved the honour of your Coordinator.

Edit:
Thank you Paul! Just saw your post after writing my comment.

I take number 6 because i am jealous that my country is still ruled by old farts and your country got more freedom than our old farts ever will understand...

Edited by Bishop Six, 01 March 2019 - 01:57 AM.

[Horseman]

Paul Inouye, on 28 February 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

What the heck is going on in here?!?!?

Kidding.. writing an update today.. looking into the comments here and updating what I can tomorrow. What I mean by what I can, there are the two big components to the FP update... the match maker and the event driven FP system. These two items are 'mission critical' and have top priority. These two things are well under way, however, it also means there's not much to show/tell you guys on this front because it's a code strip then re-write. Nothing flashy to show, nothing to quickly pop into a patch. Once these two things are complete is when we have the chance to add a prioritized selection of what's listed in the OP. I'll go into more detail tomorrow and will talk on some of the points being raised in this thread.

And quit bickering... does nothing to move this discussion forward.

Now pick a reason from the list below as to why it's been a while since I last posted.


1) Decided to pick up binge drinking and have been blacked out.
2) Got locked in a Super Pod and just got released.
3) Had a nervous breakdown and have been eating crayons since.
4) Keeps looking in here and freaks out and runs away.
5) Silenced by client-attorney privilege.
6) Cannabis is legal in Canada now.
7) Was hacked and could not log in.
8) All of the above.

Will check back tomorrow.

9. The dog ate your notes
10. You were abducted by Tetatae advance scout party

Edited by Horseman, 01 March 2019 - 02:44 AM.

[Katrina Steiner]

Thanks for the update Paul.

9. You've been working with Jigsaw

Edited by Katrina Steiner, 01 March 2019 - 06:54 AM.

[Paul Inouye]

The6thMessenger, on 28 February 2019 - 06:42 PM, said:

Is your password password?

Great..... thanks.... now I have to change it again.

[Nightbird]

Paul Inouye, on 28 February 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

What the heck is going on in here?!?!?

Kidding.. writing an update today.. looking into the comments here and updating what I can tomorrow. What I mean by what I can, there are the two big components to the FP update... the match maker and the event driven FP system. These two items are 'mission critical' and have top priority. These two things are well under way, however, it also means there's not much to show/tell you guys on this front because it's a code strip then re-write. Nothing flashy to show, nothing to quickly pop into a patch. Once these two things are complete is when we have the chance to add a prioritized selection of what's listed in the OP. I'll go into more detail tomorrow and will talk on some of the points being raised in this thread.

And quit bickering... does nothing to move this discussion forward.

Now pick a reason from the list below as to why it's been a while since I last posted.


1) Decided to pick up binge drinking and have been blacked out.
2) Got locked in a Super Pod and just got released.
3) Had a nervous breakdown and have been eating crayons since.
4) Keeps looking in here and freaks out and runs away.
5) Silenced by client-attorney privilege.
6) Cannabis is legal in Canada now.
7) Was hacked and could not log in.
8) All of the above.

Will check back tomorrow.

A little bickering is good? Condense the points into pros and cons, ignore the rest. It's what I do for work when we're writing standards documents for an entire industry, after a wave of feedback (not all kind).

[MisterSomaru]

Nightbird, on 01 March 2019 - 12:31 PM, said:

A little bickering is good? Condense the points into pros and cons, ignore the rest. It's what I do for work when we're writing standards documents for an entire industry, after a wave of feedback (not all kind).

*intelligent*, well thought out points that would actually deal with the game as a whole, mayhap deal with the fallout of CW being destroyed by Long Tom, skilled players wanting to drop with each other because they will coordinate, AND because they will bring loadouts that are conducive to winning instead of whatever kitchen sink build that is thrown onto something.
Oh! and a much stronger warning to newer players, maybe continued warnings about faction until they reach 100 hours of game time?

[Nightbird]

MrSomaru, on 01 March 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

*intelligent*, well thought out points that would actually deal with the game as a whole, mayhap deal with the fallout of CW being destroyed by Long Tom, skilled players wanting to drop with each other because they will coordinate, AND because they will bring loadouts that are conducive to winning instead of whatever kitchen sink build that is thrown onto something.
Oh! and a much stronger warning to newer players, maybe continued warnings about faction until they reach 100 hours of game time?

Well, out of those, I would put the last one (FP warning until 100hr exp) into an actionable pile, probably low resource cost too.

[Paul Inouye]

So let's jump into the current progress of the FP update:

First off, as mentioned before, all old systems that were not compatible with the current plan for the update have been removed. Re-engineering is well underway for the event driven combat system which utilizes a more distinct story telling system when triggering conflicts in Faction Play. Most of what is left is administrative interface items that will allow us to write and plan 'campaigns' that will play out during a FP conflict. This is a cross over point of development as some systems required by the UI team are blocked waiting for a few more nuggets of code to be completed. This is actually a good thing as the UI aspect can look at potential other items on the list in the OP to start moving forward on.

That being said, it's critical that the event system and the match maker update are completed before any further work is done in the update. This is why it's kind of quiet when it comes to FP information. The systems being worked on and the UI development don't really have anything glitsy to show nor does it allow any type of feature trickle as we move toward the FP patch date. We are still tracking toward the April patch for the major update and the engineers involved feel comfortable of getting there.

UI Components are well on track since a lot of UI widgets can be reused from current FP screens and screens found elsewhere in the front end.

In a nutshell, what's happening right now is:

Backend/Server Side
- Backend data management for the event driven FP system is nearing completion.
- Administrative authoring tools are up next. This allows us to enter events into the automated system.
- Matchmaker integration will follow the above.
- UI integration for the administrative tools are the final items for these major components.

UI/Front End
- War log screen updated for dynamic changes that track on a per event basis. This means that as events progress through their 'story', the war log can reflect that.
- Tug of War components have been removed from all screens and will be better reflected by statistical display rather than the arbitrary progress bar.
- Match making information will be displayed appropriately with the new incoming match making system.
- Communication between all new back end components will be connected to all UI elements that require information from the back end/server side packages.

This is the internal update for now. As you will see, nothing changes on the OP color coded list yet, but it will. I'll be back in tomorrow (Saturday) to talk on the points raised here in this thread to keep the communication moving forward.

Sorry for the unintentional gap in notification/updates. I'm going to try (not promise... being realistic) to be here at least once a week addressing your discussions. Again, I want to thank all of you for your efforts and talking points that have been relayed since the first FP Update post.

[Nightbird]

Paul Inouye, on 01 March 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:

Tug of War components have been removed from all screens and will be better reflected by statistical display rather than the arbitrary progress bar.

Please consider making planet trading easier for each phase. For example, every 100 invasion match wins for a side will result in winning 4 planets to that side, with tags going to the top contributing units. Benefits: No stalemate, ever, and planets will be tagged as long as matches occur. Removes the need to stack one side to tag planets at all.

[Deathshade]

Paul Inouye, on 01 March 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:

So let's jump into the current progress of the FP update:

First off, as mentioned before, all old systems that were not compatible with the current plan for the update have been removed. Re-engineering is well underway for the event driven combat system which utilizes a more distinct story telling system when triggering conflicts in Faction Play. Most of what is left is administrative interface items that will allow us to write and plan 'campaigns' that will play out during a FP conflict. This is a cross over point of development as some systems required by the UI team are blocked waiting for a few more nuggets of code to be completed. This is actually a good thing as the UI aspect can look at potential other items on the list in the OP to start moving forward on.

Using the current event system with a admin interface for easy management to boot. You will be able to roll out FP Lore based events and possibly big rewards (to draw the crowds) by a Lore Nerd Community Manager. That was how we did it back in the day. You always had your people driving these events and gathering up the units.

Easier to code because you don't have put the flow of the games into logic because you are doing it with a management interface. Sounds like a winner.

We talked about making the Unit Coffers meaningful. Re-use your store code to handle LP or equivalent unit funds. I think the Skye Ranger's leader Hans has an itchy spending finger. Maybe make some events based on Unit spending . . . More defense and attack drop . choices by the BIG spender . . *cough* *cough* Planet Log tom *cough* *cough*

Edited by Deathshade, 02 March 2019 - 06:55 AM.

[Prototelis]

Instead of making coffers directly accessible, maybe allow users with coffer management access to spend those cbills on one time use codes for a mech that doesn't include the mechbay.

Edit; maybe only allow a handful per day, to prevent someone from buffing up their smurf account or something.

Edited by Prototelis, 02 March 2019 - 02:09 PM.

[Sigmar Sich]

Paul Inouye, on 01 March 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:

So let's jump into the current progress of the FP update:

Thank you for the update. If you'd be so kind to give some more answers:

1. Promotion.
It is not enough to make CW great again, you need to communicate this change to retired players. Without playerbase it will go nowhere.

Once PGI was great at making trailers for the game. I guess it is out of the question now, due to low resources. But a cost-effective video (like one with the matchmaker explained) explaining why player would want to give the CW/FP another try, may be of benefit. Not right now, but closer to the patch, to saturate the video with screenshots.

Also, please consider renaming the game back to "MWO the battletech game". This may get retired players to wonder why the change again. And older design was just better, IMO.
And you can easily return the S7 theme when/if you next update Solaris mode (hopefully with free-for-all mode, or with 2v2v2v2v2v2 like in MW4 Mercenaries. Please!)

2. The event system. Will it have story input from the developers, or it will be a generic construct like "Red team attacks Blue team, because Blue team didn't behave properly." ?

It would be great to have some series of themed events, like ISvIS 4th succession war or war of 3039, and some Clan rivalry at the same time, to provide scenarios for IS-only and Clan-only players.
And the other week a Clan invasion theme of 3050 or operation Bulldog. Then maybe FedCom civil war (bloody hell, long time overdue! Only the tech came in with that update, but no scenarios).

Maybe some time event can have forced stock mode, or be played only on frozen maps, or tropical maps, or moons. Key idea - diversity, both in background theme and in gameplay factors. Without diversity it will get old fairly soon.

3. Factions.
Right now they mean nothing. There is no faction identity, there is no reason to be attached to a faction. This needs to change.
Faction should feel differently. This is why players often talk about faction specific mechs.
Here is another take on the subject, with player-friendly solutions:

A) Add quirks for mechs to increase Loyalty points to a specific faction.. With few grades varying from somewhat common mech to a faction pride mech. Grade examples: Zeus +100% Steiner LP, Commando +75% Steiner LP, some Griffins and Thunderbolts +50% Steiner LP.
Lists of faction specific mechs were often discussed on the forum, and could be easily brought up by community.

B ) Add unique mech variants as rewards, obtainable only through CW/FP.
Something like loyalty / hero mechs with unique pattern - this pattern does not need to be compatible with other chassis, so it is a feasible task.
For example Commando COM-5S for Steiner - same hardpoints as COM-2D, just give it different quirks and pattern. Or Grand Dragon for Kurita - you'll only need to change Dragon's arm ballistic hardpoint to energy. Clans have preferred mechs too. Mercs too.
This is not neccessary to do all at once, but a few mechs at a time, depending on ongoing events.
It will be both a trophy to achieve, and the next round of "oh poo, i have to grind the skill tree for new mech", which equals more playtime in the game.

C) Add Loyalty store, for players to spend loyalty points.
Spendable LPs are generated after reaching top rank with a faction.
To buy faction specific mechs for LPs, if player missed certain events.
GXP boost in faction play. Titles / badges. Faction patterns (i mean existing ones), and faction-specific decals / warhorns / cockpit items, etc.

Edited by Sigmar Sich, 02 March 2019 - 08:45 PM.