54 replies to this topic

[DisasterTheory]

Can we please have Knockdown put back into the game. And Ghost heat removed from the regular AC20.

Doing these two small changes will make a huge impact on game play and eliminate the light mech machine gun meta problem. (White knights incoming for that comment)


Back in closed beta just one AC20 would knock down a Jenner or Commando pretty easy making the current player mentality of rushing mechs much heavier than itself obsolete. The AC20 hasn't had the same effect since it was striped of its ability to knock a light or small medium on its butt.

In a nutshell what I'm proposing is any mech under 40 tons can be (CAN BE) knocked down from a single hit from a single AC20.

Mechs weighing 45 to 55 tons will be vulnerable to knockdown from a single shot from Dual AC20's.

This shouldn't be something thats hard to code BACK INTO THE GAME since it was already in the code to begin with.


Please consider how different the game would be before posting a flame style response. It would only improve game play in both QP and FP.

[Brauer]

I don't think we need to buff heavies and assaults. Lights (and a fair number of mediums) can still struggle to perform well, particularly against enemies that can aim. I also don't think this proposal would do much to supplant HGauss as the ultimate non-lock light deleter. I have plenty of mechs that half or one-shot lights when I land a shot, should they be further punished by being immobilized while I line up my second shot? Not to mention that one-shotting legs is still on the table...

Personally I would rather see more viable lights. I don't think that has to come at the cost of nerfing the piranha again, but would rather see the performance of underperformers brought up.

[Prototelis]

This game does not need stunlock, and it already has enough wonky hitreg.

PS, if you can't hit them on their way in being able to knock down those lowly lesser classed mechs isn't going to prevent you from getting your breaks beat.

Edited by Prototelis, 07 December 2018 - 10:25 AM.

[Wiley Coyote]

I would just like the ability to punt a light that is leg humping.

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 08 December 2018 - 10:38 AM.
animated image included violence

[Prototelis]

I wish people would stop putting themself into the position where they are so isolated that leg humping works.

[JediPanther]

When are mgs on lights besides the pir considered meta? No one screams,colors their pants brown and alf-f4s the game when a lct-1v with 2 mgs,lct-pb with mgs,a spider 4k with four mgs or any other light mech with mgs shows up.

As for knockdowns cue the dragons heart paul video and dragons! Knockdowns could come back but just like IK it's simply too hard for pgi. Remember they said they had IK then decided a few months after to go 'aww f it.'

[Prototelis]

IK doesn't work because its a client side effect and it would make the games hitreg **** its pants, or slow everyone in the match down trying to sync all the animations, and generally just look terrible on top of all that.

That knockdown video is a perfect example as to why it won't work right in this game.

Either way; a game with YOLO doesn't need stunlock, and that "BUT MUH ASSULT" argument doesn't hold water. If you're getting smashed by lights on a frequent basis knockdown isn't going to solve your problem.

This is really just a thread about nerfing lights, but at least it isn't a PIR thread....

[Jackal Noble]

Prototelis, on 07 December 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

I wish people would stop putting themself into the position where they are so isolated that leg humping works.

Really... I can't say how many times I have helped an assault that was in the middle of the collective team and no one else even flinches. It's mind-numbing.
Flipside, I've been the assault and usually hold my own, but have found myself in the middle of a group of pugs and a locust or piranha casually pirouettes into the group without incident and picks the cherry, all the while most don't even notice there is a red diamond in a sea of blue. It's hilarious and sad at the same moment.

[Dimento Graven]

Prototelis, on 07 December 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

IK doesn't work because its a client side effect and it would make the games hitreg **** its pants, or slow everyone in the match down trying to sync all the animations, and generally just look terrible on top of all that.

That knockdown video is a perfect example as to why it won't work right in this game.

Either way; a game with YOLO doesn't need stunlock, and that "BUT MUH ASSULT" argument doesn't hold water. If you're getting smashed by lights on a frequent basis knockdown isn't going to solve your problem.

This is really just a thread about nerfing lights, but at least it isn't a PIR thread....

What video? That Goons HEART Paul vid? I didn't see any "game breaking" warping, or match wide slowing at all. At most there was just a "bit" a jitter, the same sort that you get when a fast light 'mech being played at high ping has, and hell, it was even less than that.

[Redacted]

Bring back knockdowns so that leg humping has some risk. Good light pilots won't be affected by it and the bad ones will either learn to NOT do it, or move on to a different 'mech.

Edited by draiocht, 08 December 2018 - 10:02 AM.
unconstructive

[Windscape]

While knockdowns were in the game earlier, they were quite buggy.

I too, would love to have melee and knockdown, but lights would need big agility buffs to compensate, agility buffs for lighter meds and armor buffs for 50+ meds.

Realistically though, Knockdown, IK, and Melee will only ever maybe happen in MW5, if at all.

[Spheroid]

No beyond being a terrible idea it assumes assaults have the speed or acceleration to force a body check. I assure you they don't.

Pilots who operate lights are not drunks, they have good responsive mechs and quick reflexes. They control the distance to whatever suits them. That light can thrive at any range from 0 to 90 meters and still laugh at your face.

Your suggestion is pointless. The devs have much more pressing features to work on.


If you want knockdown and melee go play turn based BattleTech.

Edited by Spheroid, 07 December 2018 - 12:05 PM.

[Prototelis]

Dimento Graven, on 07 December 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

What video? That Goons HEART Paul vid? I didn't see any "game breaking" warping,

Are you watching the same video? The mechs warp all over the place any time they get knocked down and then try to get up.

Edit: maybe warp isn't the right term, but they sure as **** slide all over the place.

Jackal Noble, on 07 December 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

Really... I can't say how many times I have helped an assault that was in the middle of the collective team and no one else even flinches. It's mind-numbing.

Yes, it sucks when you get stuck with a bunch of unaware or selfish teammates. That isn't adequate reasoning for nerfing an a class and a half worth of mechs in the game.

9 out of 10 times I successfully 1v1 or solo kill an assault it is because they are hopelessly isolated or a lrm boat with token backup weapons who is hiding from the fight.

Edited by Prototelis, 07 December 2018 - 12:01 PM.

[Spheroid]

Dimento Graven, on 07 December 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

What video? That Goons HEART Paul vid? I didn't see any "game breaking" warping, or match wide slowing at all. At most there was just a "bit" a jitter, the same sort that you get when a fast light 'mech being played at high ping has, and hell, it was even less than that.

You're full of excrement on that.

Bring back knockdowns so that leg humping has some risk. Good light pilots won't be affected by it and the bad ones will either learn to NOT do it, or move on to a different 'mech.

Collision glitching is absolutely a thing. For a short while a form of trolling existed of Urbanmechs riding into battle atop King Crabs. The combined gestalt took less damage than if the objects were separated. The core game code has barely changed in seven years. Those problems will again arise if you promote mechs touching mechs.

Edited by Spheroid, 07 December 2018 - 11:58 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Obligatory:

[Dimento Graven]

Prototelis, on 07 December 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

Are you watching the same video? The mechs warp all over the place any time they get knocked down and then try to get up.

Edit: maybe warp isn't the right term, but they sure as **** slide all over the place.

"All over the place" as in 10 meters to the side?

OOOOOOOOO BIG WARP...

There was no "all over the place", [Redacted].

Seriously [Redacted], someone playing a 120kph+ 'mech with a 150+ ping is going to warp around twice as much.

Quote

Collision glitching is absolutely a thing. For a short while a form of trolling existed of Urbanmechs riding into battle atop King Crabs. The combined gestalt took less damage than if the objects were separated. The core game code has barely changed in seven years. Those problems will again arise if you promote mechs touching mechs.

Seriously... A chance of being knocked to the ground is "ENCOURAGING" 'mechs touching 'mechs?!!?!?!?

Pretty sure it's the EXACT OPPOSITE, that we're encouraging.

And absolutely positively, let's add some damage inflicted when two 'mechs start rubbing up against each other... This paltry BS of .001 points of damage is what's actually "encouraging" 'mechs to contact each other.

We need to add CONSEQUENCES for bad piloting, and the consequences should be, a chance of being knocked down, and damage every time you bash your 'mech into another another 'mech.

If nothing else it would help avoid situations like this:
[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 08 December 2018 - 10:35 AM.
unconstructive, video included inappropriate language & references, replies removed

[Spheroid]

How would it resolve that match? A King Crab can't dictate the range against a Stormcrow. If you wanted the match over you should have conceded.

Also the Stormcrow Prime has an single energy hardpoint in the head. The tiniest weapon could have solved that problem easily.

Edited by Spheroid, 07 December 2018 - 12:34 PM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

MWO needs many things, knockdown's return is not one of them.

[Prototelis]

Dimento Graven, on 07 December 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

"All over the place" as in 10 meters to the side?

OOOOOOOOO BIG WARP...

There was no "all over the place",

Uhm, yeah there was an "all over the place." Every time two mechs touch, one falls down, or one gets up.

10 meters is a pretty big ******* deal in a PVP game that mostly revolves around focused damage on specific components of moving bodies.


[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 08 December 2018 - 10:29 AM.
Quote Clean-up, reference

[VonBruinwald]

Dimento Graven, on 07 December 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

And absolutely positively, let's add some damage inflicted when two 'mechs start rubbing up against each other... This paltry BS of .001 points of damage is what's actually "encouraging" 'mechs to contact each other.

This I agree with, tonnage/20, would be a good start for straight damage dealt when ramming another mech.

An Atlas can ram for 5, a flea 1. So whilst the flea may want to get close for knife fighting he doesn't want to be so close he can be kicked, inevitably he'll be coming of 4 points worse every time they make contact.

[MechaBattler]

Just scale leg damage up by weight class. That'll teach those cheeky buggers.