90 replies to this topic

[Wing 0]

Spheroid, on 08 December 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

You only have 18 matches this season. I have played everyday for months. I face the same top tier guys on the Clan side during NA primetime each night. If they were agnostic this would not be so. Plus they are not rank grinding, they switch frequently. The nature of the tech differences is informing distribution of players beyond wait time consideration.

That is a very bad assumption you have there kid.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Spheroid, on 08 December 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

words

Gitgut.

[Grus]

Spheroid, on 08 December 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

You only have 18 matches this season. I have played everyday for months. I face the same top tier guys on the Clan side during NA primetime each night. If they were agnostic this would not be so. Plus they are not rank grinding, they switch frequently. The nature of the tech differences is informing distribution of players beyond wait time consideration.

so youre trying to balance the 80% of us because you keep running into the top 20%? Yeah that seems fair.

You are useing the most durable mechs in the game.. you dont need ANOTHER handicap.

[DarkFhoenix]

Its not the size of the mech , Its how you use the dang thing .

[Grus]

Wing 0, on 09 December 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

That is a very bad assumption you have there kid.

Carefull Wing, i havent seem you drop much either this season. Better drop more to make sure you have a valid argument... *wink wink nudge nudge* #sarcasm

Edited by Grus, 09 December 2018 - 05:44 AM.

[Extra Guac]

There are a lot of MCII-B's being played at the moment but I think they're a bit overrated - you can neuter it by taking the arms off, or twist off the UAC spam until they start to jam.

Blood Asp isn't any better than a Cyclops or Mauler imo.

I consider heavies to be pretty well balanced.

Based on the list of mechs getting mobility buffs this week, they're clearly trying to make IS mediums more competitive vs Huntsman, Arctic Wolf, Vapor Eagle, etc. That's the right move.

Adding piranhas to the game was a huge mistake & it'll be impossible to balance them. At 12 dps they can kill a fresh assault mech in ~4-5 secs. The problem isn't light vs light combat, the problem is that piranhas are too good at killing assaults, & IS doesn't have anything comparable.

The rest of the light division clearly favors clans but not to the point that it causes major balance issues imo.

Although it sucks to see IS lights ranked so low in Solaris. It's telling that the clans have multiple light mechs that can win matches in D3 & even D2, whereas the Osiris is languishing in D6 & D7. The Wolfhound is the one shining beacon of hope for IS lights.

[Jun Watarase]

I started playing MWO occasionally again recently.

I looked at the FP map, and noticed that clans lose most cycles. A few hours ago from the time of this post, i guess that means oceanic cycle, it was near 100% IS wins.

The only time zone where it seems clans win is the EU cycle and from what some people told me, EVIL/BCMC are on the clan side, so not hard to figure out why...

I was also told that the majority of good units are all on the IS side at the moment. Seems pretty identical to the situation in FP when I stopped playing about a year ago.

One of the following is true :

-Either IS are underpowered and all the units on the IS side are deliberately choosing it to play with a handicap, and theres a massive skill gap between IS and Clan at the moment to the point where even the OP clanners cant beat IS units with a handicap in most cycles...

OR....

-IS are OP which is why most units are IS at the moment because most people will pick the stronger side for obvious reasons...and the win rates in FP obviously reflect that...

Take a guess which is more likely to be true.

I looked through the patch notes for this year and several things jumped out at me, balance wise :

-Pointless artemis nerf (because LRMs are used a lot in competitive matches amirite?). The main effect from this is that ATMs had their effectiveness dramatically reduced due to slower locks (critical when fighting in the short range bracket) and you cant arc missiles anymore to fire them over obstacles.

-Heatsink equalization + new heatscale. My IS mechs run even cooler and are still as tanky as before.

-Clan lasers got nerfed even more, when the whole issue was with boating (9 mpl boats or whatever), not people using a small amount of lasers.

On the clan mech side, most clan mechs are still trash that no competitive player will touch in a serious match. Gargoyle, executioner, ice ferret, etc. Gotta love those oversized, locked engines. And for some reason, all the good clan mechs have bad hitboxes :

-No shield arms (gotta love torso twisting and losing a ST because you dont have shield arms)

-Large CT that can be hit from the side (EBJ, you can core one from the side just by aiming at the nose, torso twisting just doesnt work if your opponent knows this trick)

-Large STs that can be easily isolated, especially from the sides

-Massive mobility nerf (turn rate, acceleration, etc) for no clear reason. Night Gyr for example. Meanwhile most IS mechs have faster turn rates than clan mechs 10 tons lighter, because PGI logic.

So clans are essentially forced to play one style (laser vomit sniping) to minimize their disadvantages. EBJ vs something like a black knight with super armor quirks, shield arms and near instant pulse lasers is basically a no contest in a brawl.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 09 December 2018 - 08:40 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Tonnage seems fine at the moment....as close to balanced as we are likely to get (in a game that adds a new mech a month and as well as other reworks) anyway.

[Tarl Cabot]

That and the tonnage changes could also be associated to the Clan mechs being released, as well as a change up in the Trial mechs.

As for PUG vs solid Pre-made (unit or co-op), a premade will almost always stomp the pug except for the few times the premade develops tunnel vision and ignores the other win conditions, ie conquest. And not all pre-mades are created equal.

As for matches THIS season, what has changed since last season except for the drop in population? There are not hundred of matches happening at any one time. Taking at look and the current War Log, there are 3-4 Invasion matches happening. Though there may be more queued up but they have no place go.

Sadly, for lots of reasons, that is what PGI has to work with right now. Would PGI be willing to share information on the highest total current matches that have occurred in Invasion mode and Scout mode, during actual FP events and outside of it over the last few months, and the overall average per 8 hour time frame, ie NA, EU and OC? Would or should PGI show the number of Invasion drops occur for each interval on the War History? Right now for this interval 32 drops in the last 5 hours with another 2 hrs 57 minutes to go.

And during any time frame, what is, at least the percentage difference between Group queue and FP?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 09 December 2018 - 11:03 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Humble Dexter, on 08 December 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

We could increase tonnage based on Player Tier instead :
- Tier1 : Default value
- Tier2 : +5T
- Tier3 : +10T
- Tier4 : +15T
- Tier5 : +20T

That would be basic start of a balance system pgi doesn't understand how that works.

[Geewiz 27]

Spheroid, on 08 December 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

In times past what you brought to a Clan drop deck was a highly compromised affair. As it stands currently Clan tech has optimal combinations of mechs in every single weight class. The situation has been bad for some time, but has gotten noticeably worse in recent months.

Where as in times past clan assaults were lemons there are Blood Asps and Mad Cats as far eye can see.

Non-optimal Summoners have been replaced by powerful dakka Gyrs, Linebackers or Orions. Mediocre Novas have been replaced by Huntsmen and Hunchbacks. The new Vapor Eagle is proving supremely competent in a variety of roles. Front loading gets worse with each mech release. Crit lynx, Artic Wolves and Piranhas have enabled very powerful combinations of mechs during any of the four waves of combat.

This utility has not been matched by corresponding increase in useful I.S. dropdecks. Clan has gained meta mechs at a rate faster than that of the I.S. To win I.S. must have very tailored specific counters. One can know the map but not necessarily your opponent. This creates a situation where I.S. guesses incorrectly more frequently. With faction population so low the normal metrics of planet capture or slider position imbalance are not sufficient to generate notice by the devs(if they even monitor it).

Absent population pressures the best teams always trend towards Clan given a choice. The ability to dish out more damage and other stats creates incentives to play as them.

Weight must be reduced to achieve either win parity or damage parity. I suggest a reduction to 245 tons.

Mate there's nothing wrong with the tonnage atm it's just your having the same problem the rest of us have when you come across the BCMC/EVIL/EMP group, you loose. I run both sides roughly 50/50 and my performance is pretty consistent with both clan and IS. Balance is good.

[K O Z A K]

Bcmc/evil group is generally a single 3-12man, I don't know just how much of an effect we can really have on the overall conflict

[Grus]

Hazeclaw, on 09 December 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

Bcmc/evil group is generally a single 3-12man, I don't know just how much of an effect we can really have on the overall conflict

you say this, but...

[General Solo]

Deepfryer, on 09 December 2018 - 07:47 AM, said:

The problem isn't light vs light combat, the problem is that piranhas are too good at killing assaults,

The problem isn't light vs assault combat, its an aiming problem.
Hit the light just once in assault mech and it will sprint/limp away or die out right

If its your build thats not the light mechs fault

[Extra Guac]

OZHomerOZ, on 10 December 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

The problem isn't light vs assault combat, its an aiming problem.
Hit the light just once in assault mech and it will sprint/limp away or die out right

If its your build thats not the light mechs fault

That is an incorrect way to assess balance.

The piranha is overpowered compared to other lights - that's why everyone chooses to run it, and that's the reason why it outperforms relative to other light mechs.

[General Solo]

IS have so many good light options as well, many IS lights are armored like mediums.

The balance is unbalanced due to skill gap, not piranha.

FW has never had MM, thus skill gaps are common.

Balance the pirhana for FW wid its skill gap no MM issues, you also effect the pirhana in other modes as well.

I play a lot of assualts, light mechs fear me, not the other way around

Edit: And your right, for clans compared to the pirahana, the kit fox, adder and myst lynx are less good.
Cheetah can be pretty good

IS have urbie, wolfhound, commnado, locust, javelin and flea, all good mechs

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 10 December 2018 - 10:50 AM.

[Grus]

Deepfryer, on 10 December 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

That is an incorrect way to assess balance.

The piranha is overpowered compared to other lights - that's why everyone chooses to run it, and that's the reason why it outperforms relative to other light mechs.

Every PIR is overpowed, untill it gets hit... you have to build your mech to be able to deal with the PIR if you have such a problem with them. I personaly LOVE the scorch for this. 4lrm15 and 2lbx20's tend to make lights think twice about brawling.

[Khalcruth]

Grus, on 10 December 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

Every PIR is overpowed, untill it gets hit... you have to build your mech to be able to deal with the PIR if you have such a problem with them. I personaly LOVE the scorch for this. 4lrm15 and 2lbx20's tend to make lights think twice about brawling.

Well that makes perfect sense. I'll just throw a scorch into my IS dropdeck right now. Oh wait...

But that's ok, I'll just take an IS mech that can mount two LBX 20's and 4 LRM 15's. Surely one exists. Oh wait...

And yes, theoretically a Fafnir-5E could do it...if you go 40.5 kph, take one and only one ton of ammo for each gun / launcher, and take about 1/2 of your max armor. But no one is really going to do that.

Edited by Khalcruth, 10 December 2018 - 03:02 PM.

[Grus]

Khalcruth, on 10 December 2018 - 02:42 PM, said:

Well that makes perfect sense. I'll just throw a scorch into my IS dropdeck right now. Oh wait...

But that's ok, I'll just take an IS mech that can mount two LBX 20's and 4 LRM 15's. Surely one exists. Oh wait...

And yes, theoretically a Fafnir-5E could do it...if you go 40.5 kph, take one and only one ton of ammo for each gun / launcher, and take about 1/2 of your max armor. But no one is really going to do that.

I was using that as an example. There are plenty of other mechs in the IS lineup that can counter lights and still carry lrms.

[K O Z A K]

Every time I see a piranha in a dual heavy gauss mech it puts a smile on my face