244 replies to this topic

[Trevor Devalis]

Kubernetes, on 11 January 2019 - 10:14 AM, said:

ITT: bad player telling good player "you don't understand..."

Also Vellron: "I guess this really boils down to a difference of views.. you like scare tactics, I like hammer them hard tactics.." when arguing in favor of "suppression" over aimed shots to critical components.

Someone else just looking for a fight. Blah.

If you actually read my posts to what was being said, he was trying to take my statement and turn it around into something it wasn't. He was refusing to listen to what was being said and instead turned it into a "you meant this."
If a player plays a brawler or front line fighter, they should be up front, and also holding locks for themselves and others. If they don't want that role, do not take a front line fighter. Also, do not read this to mean they have to be in the open all the time. Please use some common sense. Very simple to understand but somehow it was twisted into blaming others for their own deaths. No, I was stating that teamwork is required, people cannot coordinate builds in quick play and you need to stick to the role you pick. If you want to hide behind LRMs in a short ranged heavy or assault, you should be picking an LRM or sniper build. If a player gets left behind, that is not on them to get a faster mech, as he was trying to tell me. No, it means you need to call out to your team to wait. Nothing wrong with being a slow assault, as long as you don't attempt to play it like a fast mech. If you don't like the harassing or scout role of a light, don't play a light. Pick the role you want to play and play it. So as I have tried to say, if you bring that front line mech into play, you better be upfront taking the hits and not complaining about the others. You basically volunteered to do that. Do not twist it around and say oh, but you brought a slow mech, you volunteered to die alone.

And do not try to tell me I'm a bad player. I'm not. Am I great? No. But not being great does not equal bad. I still see the game and understand it. That sort of toxicity and obnoxiousness really should have been grown out of by now.

[Kubernetes]

No, objectively you're a bad player. Your record bears it out, and your thinking bears it out. There are no proper roles in QP. It's about killing and winning. LRMers who hide and use IDF from long range are contributing to losses with selfish play.

You think I'm being mean or hyperbolic? Look up the records of the LRM-masters in this thread. Notice anything? Yeah, they're all about as bad as you.

You can talk about theory and roles and whatever in the real world, but in MWO it doesn't matter. All that matters is what actually works. If you're a guy who can run an LRM assault and rack up a 2.0 WLR and KDR, all power to you, but if you're not, stop trying to tell people you know what you're doing.

[Y E O N N E]

If you can't even hold a break-even WLR and KDR of 1.0, you are a bad player.

[tutzdes]

Trevor Devalis, on 11 January 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:

If a player plays a brawler or front line fighter, they should be up front, and also holding locks for themselves and others.

You have no idea how do brawlers work in MWO. It must keep his armor fresh and not engage at long range (bc it will lose trades this way), ie no locks for the lazy ones. After getting into close range brawler spends most of the time twisting directly to the side (in humanoid mech, to avoid being cored) and only faces enemy the moment it fires. So no locks for you again.

So if the brawler stays behind the lurmers and snipers before enemy gets close and preserves his mech, he may be knows something.

[Trevor Devalis]

@OP as you can see, there are too many people on here that consider themselves the only ones that matter. Other people come onto the forums, see this sort of trash and then mimick it in game. LRM shaming, stat shaming, refusing to listen to any ideas not of their own. It is a sad state of affairs. And these people are like piranhas. They sense something unsettling their waters and they all school in together and attack. It's just in their nature, no sense getting upset over it. It is funny when they clamber over each other and drown out anyone else and rush to point out stats or mistakes, never caring if they're contradicting themselves. And they love to cherry pick a sentence out of what you say to twist around your meaning and intent in the overall post. But hey, they're just gamers, I don't think they can help themselves.

Just do what most do, enjoy the game. These people's opinions matter about as much as the next guy's. The game has a lot of flaws but is overall enjoyable. The rest is just noise.

[Y E O N N E]

It's not stat shaming, dude. Under what rules is losing more than you win and dying more than you kill considered being a good player?

[Prototelis]

Winning in this game can usually be boiled down to one simple concept; Present more targets than you are presented with

If you're the last person alive in a fresh lrmassault you absolutely contributed to driving a loss, regardless of how much damage you did. If you eat **** in an assault in the first 5 minutes because you're out of position and can't defend yourself you drive a loss even harder. Assaults represent a pretty big percentage of the available health pool of the team.

You actually have BETTER dps the closer you are, because the travel time of the first volley is reduced. You don't need to be outfront, learn to echelon behind the first line in order to briefly present yourself. That's literally all you need to do to contribute to the HP pool.

Edited by Prototelis, 11 January 2019 - 12:43 PM.

[Prototelis]

Good players will naturally have higher KDR, but bad players can too if they farm killshots.

I wish the QP stats included KMDD like the faction ones do.

The only time a lesser skilled player is truly a burden to the game and community is when they refuse to learn or try to get better.

But hey great news, they're making a game just for you. It's called MW5, and it will allow you to literally order your AI controlled lancemates to meat shield for you so you can sit in the back.

[Prototelis]

Trevor Devalis, on 11 January 2019 - 12:55 PM, said:

Or maybe it is due to my disability.

I'm sorry to hear that.

You're still bad at the game.

Not because of a disability, but because of your **** attitude towards improvement and the solid advice high level players give out.

I'm physically disabled too, and it directly affects my ability to play. All the same, I work hard to better myself and heed the advice of players who are demonstrably better than the majority of the community.

[Trevor Devalis]

I could really care less what you think of me. You're no one to me. You not liking me won't stop me from playing the game when I can.

I don't care if you don't believe me either. Doesn't change the fact I'm stuck in a wheelchair. But hey, maybe I should just pretend like it doesn't exist and then I'll be normal again.

Maybe you'll learn to think before just opening your mouth. But probably not. You don't seem like the type.

[Y E O N N E]

Trevor Devalis, on 11 January 2019 - 12:55 PM, said:

Or maybe it is due to my disability.

Think before typing. Works wonders.

Still enjoy the game, still play despite everything. Mechanically, I might not be great, but who cares, I have fun and I help out my team more often than hinder. In the end, that's what matters.

That's not an excuse, though. Being good or bad doesn't care about why you are good or bad, it's simply a fact of derivative of your performance. There is no such thing as "I'm really good at soccer but I'm hindered due to being a quadriplegic".

[VeeOt Dragon]

win-loss record is no indication of individual skill in team play neither are kills (KMDD would be a better indicator). seen more th a few large alpha mechs hold their fire until their target was near death from CT before taking the kill shot (not that I care about kills as long as the enemy is dead it doesn't mater who got the last shot in). so much of a game's outcome depends on the TEAM. doesn't matter how good you are if your team just wants to Nascar into oblivion leaving anything moving slower than 90 kph to die then no you are not going to win. same goes for the headless chicken scatter approach or when on lance goes off on its own right into the enemy main force screaming for help when they are nearly 2,000m from the nearest friendly unit. then you have games where half the team runs off after a single light and the inevitable murder ball hits those that are left.

hell I have had games where I did something like 4 kills, 2 Solo, and 1 KMDD (in my Catapult LRM boat) and we still lost 5/12 because the "meta" builds refuse to focus fire or do anything other the run in circles while they got picked off. 1 kill, 1 KMDD and a bunch of assists in the match i'm happy and feel I did my share of the work. sometimes when LRMing you get a match with no kills but something 4 or 5 KMDD (in a win or loss) nd enough assists to have hit nearly every enemy mech at least once then you did a fine job.

Teamwork is the key. I say as long as the LRM boat is firing and hitting its target they are doing a fine job (though they should be at under 600 from the target for best effect.

[Y E O N N E]

VeeOt Dragon, on 11 January 2019 - 01:31 PM, said:

win-loss record is no indication of individual skill in team play neither are kills (KMDD would be a better indicator).

But WLR and KDR in combination with AMS are indicative. If you have an extraordinary KDR, but your WLR and AMS are low, you are just leeching kills and not contributing much. If your WLR and AMS are high but your KDR is low, you are probably a positive contribution to the team.

[Trevor Devalis]

Gah, my anger is coming through too much. I try to keep it contained and I use these forums to push me and learn to control some of it.

I still stand by saying I could care less to @Scout Derek. I don't care what you think of me.

But I am not happy I am going off like I am. I tried to keep myself civil and I failed.

However, I also stand by the statement as it was worded to me. I was told that if I understood the game, my W/L ratio would be better. I do understand the game. If I didn't it would be worse than it is. Mechanically, though, I cannot back up what I know to do.

Edited by Trevor Devalis, 11 January 2019 - 01:43 PM.

[Luminis]

Y E O N N E, on 11 January 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

But WLR and KDR in combination with AMS are indicative. If you have an extraordinary KDR, but your WLR and AMS are low, you are just leeching kills and not contributing much. If your WLR and AMS are high but your KDR is low, you are probably a positive contribution to the team.

Don't bother, mate. These players are all outstanding. Should all be in the next NWOWC. They're just being held back by, well, everything (except themselves, of course). The stats are meaningless and the leader boards are rigged!

Screw your numbers, logic and objectivity - this is the game's elite.

[VeeOt Dragon]

completely understandable I have rather nasty hand tremors so when they are acting up any game is frustrating.

in the end Fun is what should matter not kill counts and win loss records. hell I have the most fun when a game goes 11/12 or we pull off a win from caps when we are losing badly on the kill score. there is more to a game than just stopping your enemy 0/12 those games are boring even worse for the other team.

my own KTD suffers more from the fact that I am constantly trying new builds and tactics. sometimes they work sometimes they don't. do I care, not as long as I am enjoying myself. like a said i'm a middle of the road Tier 3 player do I care what an elitist meta cry baby thinks. that's a big fat no.

also the Anti LRM people are the same people who scream and cry any time something happens to positively effect the weapon. look what happened when they gave them a tiny 5% velocity increase (from what I hear from people who have played since release this wasn't so much a buff but a return to the velocity they had at an earlier time.). the buff was only slightly noticeable but all the meta players threw a fit so the nerfed the hell out all the various things that help LRMs to be more effective. (things like Artemis, NARC, and Tag)

(been playing for over a year by the way and the only reason my forum posts are low is because I find most people on the forum to toxic and unhelpful in pretty much every regard. sometimes you get someone who has something positive to contribute but they are often drowned out by people who just think their play style is the only way to play the game and everyone else is wrong.)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 11 January 2019 - 02:02 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

The high level players in this thread do not enjoy 12/0 stomps. What they enjoy is testing skill against equal skill, and the reason they shun LRMs is because it takes less skill. Everything you have to do with LRMs, you have to do with other weapons, but LRMs take the manual aim out of the equation and the drawbacks are not enough to compensate.

[VeeOt Dragon]

I love LRM that doesn't mean its the only system I use. i'v used every IS weapon and all but C-HSL. each one requires a bit different. LRM a just a weapon that seems easy and yes a lot of players just want to use them as an easy button but they do take skill. the hatred for LRM I think stems from the Lone Wolf mentality of most meta players. its most often the elite players that call out for crap tactics. lead the Nascar and leave their team behind or simply refuse to use chat.


if there is any one thing that truly separates a win from a loss and its communication. doesn't matter the builds communication is key (hell I wont a group drop match when our entire team was using Trial Trebuchets, it was blast an all manor of hilarious. 1 win out of 3 matches but they were all pretty close.)

[Xiphias]

VeeOt Dragon, on 11 January 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

if there is any one thing that truly separates a win from a loss and its communication. doesn't matter the builds communication is key

It really doesn't though. I've been in plenty of matches with lots of communication that have been losses and I've been in complete stomp wins that have been silent. Communication is important, but raw skill is more important.

Put 12 top players on a team without any communication and they will completely stomp a team of average players who are communicating. Good players know where to move, how to position, how to stay with their team, and how to adapt based on what the team is doing. Good players usually need less communication because they already know where to go and what to do.

Communication is important and good players will use it, but it doesn't matter how good your communication is if the players can't execute it. Focus right torso is meaningless if your players can't hit the right torso.

Quote

the hatred for LRM I think stems from the Lone Wolf mentality of most meta players. its most often the elite players that call out for crap tactics. lead the Nascar and leave their team behind or simply refuse to use chat.

This is a mischaracterization based on what you think "elite" players are. Most good players aren't calling for bad tactics because if they are they aren't good players, they are bad ones. You're making a strawman to avoid the real complaints good players have against LRMs.

[Prototelis]

Veering off course here a little;

The point isn't really all that related to what you, myself, or anyone else finds fun. It isn't about who is good or bad.

The point is that leech locks that are equally powerful to LOS locks encourage parasitic play. People who engage in parasitic play are bad teammates no matter how they choose to defend it or how effective they think it is.