184 replies to this topic

[Ilfi]

Unnatural Growth, on 29 December 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

How, EXACTLY, is this not continuing PGI's pursuit of the UNFUNNING OF MWO?

Brawlers are usually cold enough to not instantly explode when they lose an ST. Which means it's a check on the most unfun meta in the game, and a reward for players using off-meta builds and scoring that ST cripple.

[Unnatural Growth]

"Brawlers are usually cold enough to not instantly explode when they lose an ST."

"A cold brawler...."....

So either an ineffective brawler, or a waste of tonnage.

The only "cold" brawler, is a dead one.

And again, the nerfing of CXL engines is chosen by PGI, over the buffing of IS engines. Only problem is it also nerfs IS XL/LFE engines. When an option exists to either "nerf" one thing, or "buff" another, to bring "balance" to the game. PGI picks, almost every. single. time. to nerf whatever it is that's in their 30 second attention span. Frequently with little to no understanding of the fallout to other "systems" in the game.

Thus the Unfunning of MWO is born. Or do you just not comprehend the basic concept of "fun" and "unfun" in a game.

Or, TLDR,

Instead of this nerf, maybe choose something that buffs the balance the other way.

[Ilfi]

Unnatural Growth, on 29 December 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Do you just not comprehend the basic concept of "fun" and "unfun" in a game?

I comprehend it approximately 71% more than you think you do, and 11% less than Ash does.

The new system encourages thought. I think it is much more exciting and thought-provoking than constantly riding 98% no matter how injured you are. To me, that is fun. Too many things even now are stacked against short-range, speed-centric, glass cannon play styles. Everything is in favor of mid- to long-range poking. I will grant you that there is still some thought in playing laser vomit effectively, but it is hardly cerebral.

I don't understand why you want a less complex mechanic in what is sold as The Thinking Man's Shooter.

[NRP]

I recently started playing again from a long hiatus, and I've noticed this side torso heat penalty nonsense. This really sucks. It's crippling enough to lose a ST, but this is kind of over the top bad.

PGI needs to be careful to not make mechs less fun to pilot. The wholesale mobility nerfs a few years back was the first nail in MWO's coffin. While not as egregious, this nerf could be another nail.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 29 December 2018 - 05:02 AM, said:

Its not an issue of potency. Its more the fact its just not fun.

If STD engines were actually a viable alternative to CXL it might be okay. But clan omnimechs dont even have the choice of using other engines. So excessively penalizing the only engine they have access to is just making clan players miserable without anyway to avoid it. Thats how you get players to quit your game faster.

The whole thing is dumb. When players have no choices you dont overpenalize the single option they do have. Its better to give players multiple balanced choices than one excessively miserable choice. Thats why buffing the engines wouldve made far more sense.

Nerfing CXL was just uncalled for. And people will quit the game over it.

I sure wont care about those those who quit over this engine change. They should be damn glad that PGI didn't make CXL the same as IS XL.

In FP as long as I keep about 30% spare heat I am not affected by the ST destruction at all.

[Unnatural Growth]

Ilfi, on 29 December 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

I comprehend it approximately 71% more than you think you do, and 11% less than Ash does.

The new system encourages thought. I think it is much more exciting and thought-provoking than constantly riding 98% no matter how injured you are. To me, that is fun. Too many things even now are stacked against short-range, speed-centric, glass cannon play styles. Everything is in favor of mid- to long-range poking. I will grant you that there is still some thought in playing laser vomit effectively, but it is hardly cerebral.

I don't understand why you want a less complex mechanic in what is sold as The Thinking Man's Shooter.

"Thinking man's shooter..."

Don't make me laugh. This has never been a thinking man's shooter. It was one of *many things* PGI said during "development", but it never really was, or at least took a fast right turn away from that aspect of the game pretty early on.

ESports, and delusions of grandeur took care of that long ago.

If you like the new heat mechanic, fine. Really. It's fine. Should be pretty obvious to you that others don't like it. Agree to disagree and move on.

But, you specifically mentioned the whole Dane subject of last year "The Unfunning of MWO". Seems to me you failed to grasp the basic message he was trying to convey. Which is that the constantly nerfing and penalizing types of play over the years has sucked most of the joy out of the game. And yet you use this example in your explanation as to why you LIKE the nerf.

Is the IRONY of that not lost on you?

And one of *many things* PGI has said is they wanted to look at ways to increase TTK (time to kill) across the board. This is not the way to make that happen either. Again, IRONY.

But, ok, you like the changes. Others don't. I don't really play much anymore myself for various reasons. This change won't make me want to play more, that's for sure. Will it make me want to play less? Don't know that either. I can say that I don't agree with the change, but I'm no longer invested in MWO hard enough to develop much passion for it either way. And I used to be a "whale". The kind of player I would think PGI would want to retain, disposable income, willing to spend money on entertainment, etc. Only reason I've played as much as I have lately is because of the holiday contests/free goodies. That's cool and all, but ultimately, it's players spending money on the game that keeps things rolling, and keeps PGI in business.

Either way you slice it, the player base is shrinking. How many more players can MWO afford to lose?

Edited by Unnatural Growth, 29 December 2018 - 01:30 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I will say, as much as I find the new mechanic annoying, it does add a little bit of depth to your tactical decision-making. It gives you an added incentive to try and maim an enemy while he's firing; there's a little bit of increased risk in doing so and you get an increased reward if you pull it off by having that 'Mech either shut down or take additional damage. This is especially potent against laser vomit and PPC 'Mechs.

[LordNothing]

played a game yesterday, it was an fp match, typical pugs vs unit. i was on the pug side, but i did pretty well. durring that match i st killed 2 battlemasters and an awesome. i asked them if they were all running xl, but they said they were running lfe. so ive comed to the conclusion that its best to now xl check all the things. go for an st in a brawl and there is a good chance the other mech will be so hot by the time it comes off that it will explode. if it doesnt work you just took away half their stuff.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 December 2018 - 01:32 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

El Bandito, on 29 December 2018 - 04:48 AM, said:

Clan las-vomit mechs are still potent. Come face Mercstar Hellbringer squad in FP and you'll see.

Any time I've seen it you guys have never left the dropzone?

Kinda seems, unimpressive?

[NASCAR is BAD gameplay STOP IT]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 December 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

I will say, as much as I find the new mechanic annoying, it does add a little bit of depth to your tactical decision-making. It gives you an added incentive to try and maim an enemy while he's firing;

Yeah this is very relevant, I've certainly changed from Focusing CT's to more often stripping an ST like a good old XL check because the effective impact on anything that isn't a STD engine is increased.

[Koniving]

I destroyed the side torso of a Hellbringer today.

He didn't shut down.

Instead he backed up a little bit, shifted and used the chance to get around the corner where he then met me with 3 of his friends for an insta-gibbing of me.

My point is a Clan XL engine that didn't shut down with the ST destroyed and the smart thing he did rather than continue to attack me solo which would have been suicide for him.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

Since I'm a faction player I will say this 6 out of 8 mechs on both my dropdecks use light fusion because of the slots I need.
Almost all my mechs run on XL's in general never changed.

[justcallme A S H]

Koniving, on 29 December 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

I destroyed the side torso of a Hellbringer today.

He didn't shut down.

So he basically was under 75% heat when you took his torso. Big deal.

All that really indicates is you were fighting a low skill player, at best. And overall not surprising given you "claim" to tank stat, although I'm starting to think even that is a lie.

Anyway these are examples of what is happening:

1st EXAMPLE

2nd EXAMPLE


All being discussed -> HERE <-

Now honestly, try say how such a mechanic is enjoyable/good for gameplay when stuff like that happens.

This should be backed out. It is NOT enjoyable.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 30 December 2018 - 04:46 AM.

[Astrocanis]

Koniving, on 28 December 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

It needs to be adjusted to account for another change they did at the same time.

For the first time since January 2013, the loss of your heatsinks will affect your maximum heat threshold and cooling power for every heatsink destroyed when it is destroyed.
(Its in the same patchnotes in the same paragraph as the ST engine change).

When you lose the ST which takes away (what was it 20 to 40%?) of your base 10 in addition to losing another 5 to 9 heatsinks, the real hit isn't the loss of the base 10, but the combination of the two.

Even non-LE using mechs boating heatsinks will suffer dramatic heat changes after losing a large number of heatsinks such as a side torso, despite using a standard engine.


(Also I don't hate it, the game's finally getting to be fun again for the first time in many years. But the actual penalty needs to be adjusted to accommodate for the fact that heatsink loss matters now.)

I see. So "suicide by overheat" increases fun. Maybe for you.

For me, all it does is lower TTK, which, in my opinion, is "a bad thing". And I have mixed feelings about the game. Things are going well, player base excepted, and they throw a crescent hammer into the gears.

[El Bandito]

justcallme A S H, on 29 December 2018 - 04:04 PM, said:

Any time I've seen it you guys have never left the dropzone?

Kinda seems, unimpressive?

Lay off the hyperbole mate, you gonna choke on it someday.

[Astrocanis]

Ilfi, on 29 December 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

Wow, lots of anti-heat spike folks in here. Pardon my bravery, but: I like the new changes.

I think high alpha vomit Mechs that are about to have their sides torn off while redlining should have to think twice about what they're doing. The change is one of PGI's many recent steps towards making brawling more competitive in a Quick Play setting, and I think they've done well.

Considering last year almost all of the talk was about "The Unfunning of MWO," it just strikes me as odd that people are mad about us having a new, arguably better (emphasis arguably) and more diverse game.

I just did more than think twice. I shut down. As soon as I pressed the "w" key, I shut down again. After about 45 seconds I could fire 4 c-ersl, which I know are incredibly scary. And I rode the heat scale the rest of the game. At least until I died.

[justcallme A S H]

Ilfi, on 29 December 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

I don't understand why you want a less complex mechanic in what is sold as The Thinking Man's Shooter.

Because we already have enough complex mechanics in the game perhaps?

- Stealth (many cant get their head around it)
- Skill Tree - How does it work effectively. And a BUNCH of sub issues like how disspiation works, the fact heat gen currently does not etc etc etc.
- Heat Mgt Number in-game - Doesn't mean what it says at all, is very misleading
- ATM / LRM - Min ranges / damage over range
- Targeting Comps - People still think they affect/reduce LOCK ON time (when its just paperdoll)
- Mechlab - In general MWO and Mechlab is NOT an east thing to work out

And that is just to name a few.

I enjoy the fact there are complexities like the above even before you step on the battlefield. I mean once you have you then have things like:

- Trading
- Sharing / Rotating armour
- Shielding
- Watch Caps / Counters
- Brawling
- Overall Timing

Now adding this further complicating mechanic to a playerbase that has been seeing a decent decline since the last major change (Skill Tree)...

Are you really gonna sit there and say the game needs another insta-gib mechanic? IS XL is bad enough.

[WhineyThePoo]

No.

[Sjorpha]

There are pros and cons to the change.

Nerfing cxl is a pro, there is no reason for it to be so superior to all the other engines and when you have 3 balanced elements and 1 unbalanced it's more sensible to go after the 1 than the 3.

A reason to not ride the heat limit is good, and we need more of those reasons.

The unintuitive nature of the penalty is bad, that is what annoys people.

Nerfing lfe is very bad, it was already much worse than cxl and it would have been better to nerd only cxl, PGIs insistence on giving those 2 engines the same penalties makes no sense as lfe is much heavier.

[Jay Leon Hart]

justcallme A S H, on 29 December 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

Anyway these are examples of what is happening:

1st EXAMPLE

2nd EXAMPLE

Now honestly, try say how such a mechanic is enjoyable/good for gameplay when stuff like that happens.

This should be backed out. It is NOT enjoyable.

1st example link is broken

Example #2 is someone overheating then getting punished for it. Bad play is bad

I'll agree with everyone that this change isn't fun, but neither is IS XL ST death, so being fun clearly isn't an issue with some things, apparently.