112 replies to this topic

[shaytalis]

I play light mechs a lot and it always feels like I can't compete on match score. I'll get some 500+ sometimes, if I have some really hot match with 600+ damage, but most of the stuff I do for the team doesn't seem to translate much in the way of match score.

I figure a lot of this gets down to me becoming a better light mech pilot, but as I was looking through the leaderboards I saw that I wasn't exactly alone here. I sorted folks by highest average match score. I used 400+ as a bar for "really good match score" since that's the point where you get the biggest rise in rank afaik.

Number of players on the current leaderboard with an average match score >= 400 (by weight):

Assault: 197 players
Heavy: 120 players
Medium: 140 players
Light: 39 players


Light mech pilots are not getting rewarded the same as the higher weight classes. The difference in the number of players generally getting the top reward is an order of magnitude. This says that light players, in general, don't get rewarded nearly as much for their contributions.

What's some stuff that light mechs do which they could get points for? Or get more point for? Some possibilities within the existing categories:

Capturing Base
Flanking
Hit and Run
Tag Damage
UAV Damage
UAV Detection

Is there other stuff that lights tend to get more frequently than other classes? PGI may be able to see a better view of this on their end in terms of frequencies with which different weight classes achieve different types of bonuses. But what do other folks think lights should get rewarded for more?

Alternatively, could just flat give lights a % match score bonus if there's nothing that could be tweaked here.

I know light mechs are particularly good at climbing steep hills, but maybe in this case we could flatten their road a bit relative to the rest of the folks? Thanks for the consideration!

[K O Z A K]

it's part of why people use jarls over ingame leaderboard for looking at stats, it weighs light score more, as it should

it's waaaaay harder to get high match scores with lights than assaults or heavies

[shaytalis]

Did some more digging. I don't have a count for "# of players with >= 10 games played by weight class" but I want to try to weight these figures by % of population to show that it's not simply "fewer people play light mechs." So to demonstrate that, I'm taking each of these player counts and dividing by the total # of players in that category. This gives me a % of the category taken up by each weight class.

Hypothesis here is that light mechs take up a significantly smaller share of high match scores compared to their share of high W/L ratios and high # of matches played.



% average match scores >= 400 by weight class:

Assault: 197 players / 496 total = 39.72%
Heavy: 120 players / 496 total = 24.19%
Medium: 140 players / 496 total = 28.23%
Light: 39 players / 496 total = 8%


% average match scores >= 300 by weight class:
Assault: 2060 / 6087 = 33.84%
Heavy: 1779 / 6087 = 29.23%
Medium: 1644 / 6087 = 27.05%
Light: 604 / 6087 = 9.9%






Now to compare this to a baseline, I'm looking at two things which shouldn't vary too much due to weight class chosen:

% of W/L Ratios >= 3 by weight class:
Assault: 292 / 1087 = 26.96%
Heavy: 294 / 1087 = 27.05%
Medium: 300 / 1087 = 27.60%
Light: 201 / 1087 = 18.49%


% of Games Played >= 200 by weight class:
Assault: 465 / = 38.24%
Heavy: 319 / = 26.23%
Medium: 231 / = 19.00%
Light: 201 / = 16.53%



So what I can conclude from this is that light mechs constitute about 17% of events when looking at W/L ratio >= 3 or # Games Played >= 200, but only about 9% of matches when looking at Match Score >= 300 or Match Score >= 400.

A better neutral comparison would be to look at the % of total population, or % with >= 10 Matches played [all people on the leader boards]. But what I've got here seems to confirm the hypothesis that light mechs tend to have lower match scores. IE it's not just that there aren't as many light mech pilots. Even as a percent of population the match score seems to go down.

If we could get a % of players with # matches >= 10 by each weight class that would be good for a better base of comparison, but I'm not really expecting that % to change dramatically from the % with >= 200 matches played.

Edited by shaytalis, 29 December 2018 - 02:21 PM.

[Phoenix 72]

I always thought that lighter Mechs already get a leg up in MS when compared to heavier Mechs. Or at least that's what I figured after looking at match scores in my game.

Had a match today where I did 927 damage in a medium, 2 kills, 3 Assists, 520 match score. An Urbie K-9 got 544 damage, 3 kills, 4 assists, 469 match score.

I take it my observation is not correct?

shaytalis, on 29 December 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

% average match scores >= 400 by weight class:

Assault: 197 players / 496 total = 39.72%
Heavy: 120 players / 496 total = 24.19%
Medium: 140 players / 496 total = 28.23%
Light: 39 players / 496 total = 0.08%


% average match scores >= 300 by weight class:
Assault: 2060 / 6087 = 33.84%
Heavy: 1779 / 6087 = 29.23%
Medium: 1644 / 6087 = 27.05%
Light: 604 / 6087 = 0.099%

You math is wrong on the Lights. 40 out of 500 is 8%, not 0.08%. 600 out of 6000 is 9.9%, not 0.099%...

[shaytalis]

Darakor Stormwind, on 29 December 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

I always thought that lighter Mechs already get a leg up in MS when compared to heavier Mechs. Or at least that's what I figured after looking at match scores in my game.

Had a match today where I did 927 damage in a medium, 2 kills, 3 Assists, 520 match score. An Urbie K-9 got 544 damage, 3 kills, 4 assists, 469 match score.

I take it my observation is not correct?

It looks like not correct, yeah. If it were an independent variable I would expect about the same % of mechs with >= 200 matches played as the % of mechs with match score >= 300 or >=400. But the % with >= 300 or >=400 match score seems to get slashed in half for light mechs.

Again, my first thought was "it's just me," but the numbers suggest it's a trend for light mechs in general.

Darakor Stormwind, on 29 December 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

You math is wrong on the Lights. 40 out of 500 is 8%, not 0.08%. 600 out of 6000 is 9.9%, not 0.099%...

Fixing, thanks. The conclusions are the same, I just had decimals in the wrong place.

[LordNothing]

lights are just the most sensitive class to player skill. someone who is really good with lights will be toppling multiple assault mechs each match. yet most of potato tier hasn't figured out the trick to light success (and that is: never stop moving). not to say i wouldn't mind a scoring redux. the one size fits all scoring system has lead to a lot of bad play through stat padding and other shenanigans.

totally need weight class modifiers on scores. as well as mode modifiers. these are just conditional multipliers that are applied to the base payouts at the end of the match. for example heavies would get buffs for kills, assaults would get buffs for damage and lights would get buffs for scouting. you might have quirks that change the modifiers on specific mechs that are typically out of role mechs (say urbanmechs, cougars, and adders make terrible scout mechs and find themselves taking on more of a fire support role. and cicadas and vipers play more like lights than mediums. if you play according to your role you will make points more efficiently than if you go against it, like wolfpack death lights. also the mode factors in, like in skirmish damage and kills would get up multiplied across the board because thats what the mode is about. faction play could totally buff teamplay bonuses to encourage good teamplay over personal skill.

[shaytalis]

Going a bit higher up on the match score:

# of players with average match score >= 500:

Assault: 23 / 54 = 54.76%
Heavy: 7 / 54 = 12.96%
Medium: 9 / 54 = 16.67%
Light: 3 / 54 = 5.56%

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Lighter classes already get a higher matchscore for comparable performance of a heavier class.

[shaytalis]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 29 December 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

Lighter classes already get a higher matchscore for comparable performance of a heavier class.

So if that's the case then it's just a matter of increasing that boost, because currently it's not enough to make up for the difference.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

Hazeclaw, on 29 December 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

it's part of why people use jarls over ingame leaderboard for looking at stats, it weighs light score more, as it should

it's waaaaay harder to get high match scores with lights than assaults or heavies

Does jarls also track faction play stuff or is it just QP?

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Alexandra Hekmatyar, on 29 December 2018 - 04:03 PM, said:

Does jarls also track faction play stuff or is it just QP?

Just QP, but that's true for the PGI stats, either. Same Database.

[Y E O N N E]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 29 December 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Just QP, but that's true for the PGI stats, either. Same Database.

PGI tracks FP, but only in-game.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 29 December 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Just QP, but that's true for the PGI stats, either. Same Database.

Then that list is quite useless for me.

[Lethe Wyvern]

@OP But tens and tens topics on this forum says that "lights are OP" so its must be easy peasy farm > insane global performance. Dont you trying to tell us they are WRONG, good sir my dude?

[FireStoat]

Getting minimum matchscores for two stocking stuffers a match in a triple AMS kitfox was pretty snooze worthy. I'll agree that the game seriously needs better matchscore incentives and payouts for lights, but PGI is what we have so... I think they've known for years.

[Dee Eight]

Threads like this around events that involve "match score" as a requirement amuse me greatly when they're started by folks with a history of low AMS... that extends months before the event even happened. Lots of other players do just fine in lights.

[Phoenix 72]

Well, I can understand where the OP is coming from. If all Mechs were equally valid, you would see a relatively equal distribution of MS over all the classes.

The problem with MS is that it is heavily skewed towards doing damage. Other, useful, tasks are not rewarded as much (or at all). Since a 20-35 ton Mech has a tough time competing with Mechs that carry 40 tons of weaponry on damage score, he is asking for other gameplay to be rewarded.

Personally, I feel the uneven distribution is due to the fact there are fewer different Light Mechs that are suitably powerful (in comparison) to the other weight classes. The board is full of "This Light Mech sucks!!!" posts. The only things people really complain about being overpowered seems to be the Piranha. And that only because of the amounts of MGs it can carry. But a lot of Light Mechs are just not that viable.

Add to that, that Light Mechs obviously cannot take a lot of damage. The class is highly dependent on pilot skills. So much, in fact, that I keep telling any new pilots to stay away from them. Stick with Medium and Heavy, which are much more forgiving. Check my Jarls stats. When I was started, I played Light Mechs exclusively (because they were the only Mechs I could afford). That was a really dumb move on my part and I have the stats to prove it.

So while I would agree with adding more rewards for teamwork related playstyles, I do suggest that the OP might want to stick with Mediums and Heavies for a bit longer. At least until he has more routine and more experience.

[HammerMaster]

Role Warfare TM
Rest
In
Peace.

[Darian DelFord]

::Captures Base: 100 CB.......0 XP

[Khobai]

Darakor Stormwind, on 30 December 2018 - 12:54 AM, said:

The problem with MS is that it is heavily skewed towards doing damage.

thats not really the problem since damage is how you win games. of course the scoring system should be skewed towards what wins games.

the problem is that there arnt really any ways to win games besides damage. because we have all these crappy skirmish gamemodes instead of actual objective based gamemodes.

light mechs dont need welfare matchscore. light mechs need more ways to win the game that dont involve doing damage. and then they can be properly rewarded for helping their team win the game.

in other words the problem lies with the gamemodes and not light mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 30 December 2018 - 08:06 AM.