112 replies to this topic

[tutzdes]

HammerMaster, on 31 December 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Some people like "other" jobs. Thank you

I've yet to see a pilot who likes to spot and cap more than to fight and kill.

Even in WoT where spotting and other "role warfare" stuff was a HUGE thing, the most fun Light pilots can get was always to backstab fatties or "arty".

Yeonne Greene, on 31 December 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

And I get between 350k and 550k in mine, which is in line with other, heavier 'Mechs that I am consistent with.

I'm not really seeing much of a problem.

For me it is 300-400 usually and I see no problem in it too. I would hate to be forced into "role warfare" to be unable to kill biggies in unfair fight :}

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 31 December 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

The whole economy thing wouldn't even work in the long run because:

1. There are lots of ways to pay real money to get more in-game money, so you could literally pay your way to the top immediately without even needing to be really good.

2. It's a playerbase of mostly established veterans, so eventually a large chunk of us would reach that top point anyways.

1. You would have to keep paying real money to play the big 'Mechs if you suck enough, though.

2. Not from what we've seen already, no. You wouldn't be able to afford running the big 'Mechs if your typical game is only 300 damage and no kills...and that describes a LOT of players today.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 31 December 2018 - 12:14 PM.

[Prototelis]

I wish my light scores were more consistent, I'm way too aggressive and make some really bad decisions.

But I know I've been a big enough pain in the *** to certain peeps when I notice they will dive on me no matter what.

Y'all don't even want to know about my highest PIR score ever.

[FupDup]

More post formatting issues! Edge really hates you doesn't it?

Yeonne Greene, on 31 December 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

1. You would have to keep paying real money to play the big 'Mechs if you suck enough, though.

I don't see how that really changes anything. Paying to win is paying to win, whether it's one payment or recurring payments.

Yeonne Greene, on 31 December 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

2. Not from what we've seen already, no. You wouldn't be able to afford running the big 'Mechs if your typical game is only 300 damage and no kills...and that describes a LOT of players today.

I guess that would specifically depend on exactly how much the mechs would cost.

[Jman5]

shaytalis, on 31 December 2018 - 11:52 AM, said:

So, this is actually going back to one of the main questions of my OP. I'm not asking "what should lights be doing?" Lights can keep doing what they're doing now. I'm asking "what can be done to reward lights more fairly for what they are currently doing?"

Hammer's making suggestions with respect to stuff that currently has no reward at all, like being the rabbit etc., but which light mechs do and help the team dramatically by doing. I'm not sure what the best solution is, but the numbers show that light mech pilots constitute a disproportionately small percentage of the 300 and 400 match score games. That number isn't impacted by me or anyone else being a newbie--we're talking about the pros here. Pro lights don't get pro rewards. It does hit all light mech pilots, but if you understand what those numbers mean you'll see this has nothing to do with newbies.

They could start by expanding the rewards they are eligible for. Lights can't get the Brawler reward (solo kill under 450m). Seems like a pointless restriction. Wouldn't make a huge difference, but it would have a positive impact on your average matchscore.

[shaytalis]

Jman5, on 31 December 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

They could start by expanding the rewards they are eligible for. Lights can't get the Brawler reward (solo kill under 450m). Seems like a pointless restriction. Wouldn't make a huge difference, but it would have a positive impact on your average matchscore.

Oooo what about "Cost Efficiency." Reward for getting a Solo Kill on a larger weight class mech.

[Grus]

Prototelis, on 31 December 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

I wish my light scores were more consistent, I'm way too aggressive and make some really bad decisions.

But I know I've been a big enough pain in the *** to certain peeps when I notice they will dive on me no matter what.

Y'all don't even want to know about my highest PIR score ever.

Ill raise you an 11kill with my TDK

But the best game ive had in it was with a old-school 1ll 3ml kite build.. made Sustainedeyecontact yell at me in chat to leave him alone in his king crab best day ever lol

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 31 December 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

More post formatting issues! Edge really hates you doesn't it?

The issues should cease when they switch the rendering engine over to Blink. Soon. Plz.

Quote

I don't see how that really changes anything. Paying to win is paying to win, whether it's one payment or recurring payments.

It doesn't, it just means it probably wouldn't be all that prolific of a thing. And it would very rapidly earn the game a bad rep, either way.

[Prototelis]

Grus, on 31 December 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

Ill raise you an 11kill with my TDK

But the best game ive had in it was with a old-school 1ll 3ml kite build.. made Sustainedeyecontact yell at me in chat to leave him alone in his king crab best day ever lol

I didn't get 11 kills, but I put up a REDONKULOUS amount of damage in the CI on my alt account and KMDD'd half the team.

Not sure how much damage it was, but the first butt I found was a woefully isolated standard engine SNV.

Edit:
(forgot the image, also not sure if I can link images from slack but here goes)

Edited by Prototelis, 31 December 2018 - 12:55 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Yeonne Greene, on 31 December 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

I don't feel I'm being under-compensated when I play Lights, but I play combat roles. I typically do lots of damage and get lots of kills, assists, and component destructions. Early game scouting bonuses, too. I make as much as I would make doing similarly in other 'Mechs.

If you want to give more reward for spotting, capping, TAG, NARC, etc., that's fine. But Hammer is not just suggesting that. What Hammer wants are Lights and Mediums good enough to fight each other with Heavies and Assaults being better and locked behind a paywall that requires you to be really good to pay for them and play them regularly.

Paywall.
Said by me? No. Twas you.
The economy is too late the way it's implemented now.
Obviously your not seeing it how I'm seeing it.
It is NOT rock paper scissors.

[FupDup]

HammerMaster, on 31 December 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

Paywall.
Said by me? No. Twas you.
The economy is too late the way it's implemented now.
Obviously your not seeing it how I'm seeing it.
It is NOT rock paper scissors.

Your idea is that heavies and assaults should require so many C-Bills to operate that it becomes prohibitive for most players to constantly run them, yes? Then that's basically a paywall by definition, although more of a "soft" paywall than a "hard" paywall (example of a "hard" paywall would be a mech that can only be bought for MC).

Also people can just outright purchase C-Bills for real money, so trying to base game balance off of a C-Bill hierarchy (more expensive = more powerful) is gonna result in a bad time.

Edited by FupDup, 31 December 2018 - 02:11 PM.

[Dee Eight]

I said three years ago, when the player pool population was much greater, that there needed to be some sort of graduation system before folks were allowed to take out assault mechs into matches. They were just too cheap and too readily available with far too many morons using them. Now...the majority of intelligent players have largely given up on the game and moved onto something else, while the moron contingent has remained about the same size in terms of absolute numbers. However taken as a percentage of the total player pool...the morons now represent a larger slice of the pie chart than they did three years ago.

[HammerMaster]

FupDup, on 31 December 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Your idea is that heavies and assaults should require so many C-Bills to operate that it becomes prohibitive for most players to constantly run them, yes? Then that's basically a paywall by definition, although more of a "soft" paywall than a "hard" paywall (example of a "hard" paywall would be a mech that can only be bought for MC).

Also people can just outright purchase C-Bills for real money, so trying to base game balance off of a C-Bill hierarchy (more expensive = more powerful) is gonna result in a bad time.

If you have ever pen and paper-ed and balanced a checkbook you would understand what I'm saying.
You're only scratching the surface at the "twitch" elements of a VASTLY more deep experience.
It would be a "soft" cap as described above.
You forget the limits would be on everyone not just a few elites.
A mech battle is part of a CAMPAIGN. Which is part of a WAR.
WHICH IS A BUSINESS.
YOU HAVE TO BUDGET AND BALANCE YOUR CHECKBOOK.
BEG BORROW STEAL SALVAGE REPAIR TRAIN FIGHT REPEAT.
Not just click pixels.
Your stat inflating experience is shallow and diluted at best.

So. If that's what you want. Sure. Do it.
Don't marginalize my statements because you don't want more than right click left click.

Edited by HammerMaster, 31 December 2018 - 03:34 PM.

[FupDup]

HammerMaster, on 31 December 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

If you have ever pen and paper-ed and balanced a checkbook you would understand what I'm saying.
You're only scratching the surface at the "twitch" elements of a VASTLY more deep experience.
It would be a "soft" cap as described above.
You forget the limits would be on everyone not just a few elites.
A mech battle is part of a CAMPAIGN. Which is part of a WAR.
WHICH IS A BUSINESS.
YOU HAVE TO BUDGET AND BALANCE YOUR CHECKBOOK.
BEG BORROW STEAL SALVAGE REPAIR TRAIN FIGHT REPEAT.
Not just click pixels.
Your stat inflating experience is shallow and diluted at best.

So. If that's what you want. Sure. Do it.
Don't marginalize my statements because you don't want more than right click left click.

None of that tirade changes the fact that players can just outright purchase infinite C-Bills by using real life money. Economy invalidated.

[shaytalis]

I don't feel like the answer is "make everything but light mechs too expensive for new players without spending money." It doesn't do anything to change the current experience. If all mechs were free, light mechs would still not getting fair match scores atm. The community is old enough that money is less of an object, and it's even at the top level of play where the match score imbalance exists.

[HammerMaster]

FupDup, on 31 December 2018 - 03:39 PM, said:

None of that tirade changes the fact that players can just outright purchase infinite C-Bills by using real life money. Economy invalidated.

Name the players you know who have bought c bills with real money?
Who appointed you Grand Invalidator?
Stop marginalizing.

Edited by HammerMaster, 31 December 2018 - 04:18 PM.

[FupDup]

HammerMaster, on 31 December 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

name the players you know who have bought c bills with real money?

If we count items that let you earn C-Bills faster, then practically everyone on this forum has gotten some premium time and/or hero mechs at some point or another. C-Bills come as a pre-order bonus for most mech pack orders these days so that counts too. Direct C-Bill purchases are less likely right now because the conversion rate is so low that it's more efficient to get certain champion mechs and sell them.

If the game got redesigned to make the objectively most powerful mechs require tons of C-Bills to play, though, then you can bet your buns that direct C-Bill purchases (or buying + selling champions) would become a lot more enticing.

[HammerMaster]

shaytalis, on 31 December 2018 - 03:42 PM, said:

I don't feel like the answer is "make everything but light mechs too expensive for new players without spending money." It doesn't do anything to change the current experience. If all mechs were free, light mechs would still not getting fair match scores atm. The community is old enough that money is less of an object, and it's even at the top level of play where the match score imbalance exists.

That is only one piece of the puzzle.

[Darian DelFord]

I think it was Jman mentioned it above. Little things like the brawling bonus would be nice. Even a light mech has to brawl at least once a match if not more. Also changing the timers on existing bonuses could help out as well, such as Hit and Runs.

[VaudeVillain]

When they had Repair and Rearm, it was cheaper to go with lighter 'Mechs due to repair cost. But, while lights should be viable, it should have always been their survival was based on their speed, so they are more like strafers, because almost any heavy weapon should put a serious hurting on a Light that is standing still or going slow.