83 replies to this topic

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I'm seeing some good trends lately ...
- renewed focus on improving faction play (including a match maker)
- removing Escort (hopefully to be replaced with a better game mode or at least Escort with a smarter VIP)
- adding back the old maps (hopefully with a few tweaks)
- reskinning (and hopefully, improving) current maps

Can we please get a PSR reset, to help with the quality of quick play matches?

Take me as an example of a player that does not currently belong in Tier 1. Two years ago, I belonged in Tier 1. This was right after MWOWC 2016, at the peak of my activity in game, and admittedly, at what I feel like was the peak of my skill. Since then ... I've played less (much less); my aim, positioning, map awareness, and overall skill has degraded; and, when I get matched with MWOWC 18 top team players in solo queue games, I can predict the results.

Has my PSR bar slipped one pixel from maxed out Tier 1? No.

I feel like I belong in a lower Tier, mostly to be fair to the actual good players in Tier 1 who expect more of their team mates.

Here are three options, without completely re-working the PSR system ...
- (1) Keep players' PSR as is. (Not recommended.)
- (2) Complete PSR reset. Put everyone in Tier 5, have a few months of truly hilarious matches while everyone sorts themselves out. (While it would be funny, only slightly more recommended ... those that don't read the announcements and patch notes would rage ... really bad players would get farmed by decent players.)
- (3) PSR reset based on a maximum amount of past match history (maybe the last 500 or 1000 matches) over a certain amount of time (maybe the past year). (This is my recommendation, I leave the little details up to you to properly distribute the players.)

Of course, actual adjustments to the PSR system would be the harder, but more preferable, option, either with:
- adjusted increase / decrease thresholds ... possibly different for each tier, or
- a degrade-over-time function, where you have to actually perform consistently at the expected level, or
- PSR resets every month or so (like the quick play leaderboards, for example), or
- a wider range of Tiers, like maybe twice as many, with the match maker adjusted to open gates as required to support the population, or
- an actual ranking system, where ~15% of active players are Tier 1, ~20% are Tier 2, ~30% are Tier 3, ~20% are Tier 4, ~15% are Tier 5, or
- some of all of that.

TL;DR: Can we please get a PSR reset, to help with the quality of quick play matches?

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 21 December 2018 - 06:11 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

It needs a full rework to be of any use. Combined with someway to balance out teams by skill level so 1 or 2 good pilots are not with 10 players wouldn't even been allowed near a tractor.

[justcallme A S H]

I asked for this at the start of the year.

Sadly without a different approach to PSR...

There is little point to a reset. The two (ie, proper solution) go hand in hand

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I agree that a complete overhaul would be preferred, but this way, PGI has a menu of options to choose from.

At this point, something -- especially if it was something that they would do once every three months or so -- would be better than nothing (which is what we've had for almost three (I think -- is it three or four?) years).

[MrMadguy]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 21 December 2018 - 06:02 PM, said:

TL;DR: Can we please get a PSR reset, to help with the quality of quick play matches?

It's pointless thing, if PSR won't be fixed to stop being just an XP bar and start being real representation of skill. Some adjustments are also needed. There should be some compensation for playing against way too skilled opponents. Something like option to choose between faster queues and better matchmaking and call to arms feature to join unbalanced match for better rewards. I just refuse to be constantly stomped and be just a free frag for tryhards for free.

[Brizna]

The ideal sollution would be a complete rework of the system, I think everybody on this page agrees with that, including OP. What OP is saying, and I agree with, is that since we are not going to get that let's try and get the next bext thing.

All the solutions proposed in OP's post would result in an improvement of actual PSR ratings. So I support any of them.

Edited by Brizna, 22 December 2018 - 01:03 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

bad idea ...its rare tahts im play ..all months a WE and with a reset im no have fun to play for Years against potatoes.
70% of the new membership im thinking now Potatoes and kids thats have no interest to play better or in team or learn Weaponsranges or Tactical Awarness..its like GTA Online or other MPs ..only trolling
the PSR ist not the Point thats MWO come in a HAWKEN status.The great Time of MWO is gone and come never back, and PGI has nothing interest further to MWO and the Good Guys with experience for MWO and his Engine most all gone long ago and no new Members come ...only for MW5

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 22 December 2018 - 01:08 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 21 December 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

I agree that a complete overhaul would be preferred, but this way, PGI has a menu of options to choose from.

At this point, something -- especially if it was something that they would do once every three months or so -- would be better than nothing (which is what we've had for almost three (I think -- is it three or four?) years).

TBH without proper attention to how it works.

A reset will not work.

See --> HERE <-- for some basic more detail

[Khobai]

Dividing an already low population into a bunch of buckets that cant play eachother will just increase queue times. Especially since the game's population keeps going down not going up.

If PGI wants to turn things around they first need to solve the population crisis problem.

[Grus]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 21 December 2018 - 06:02 PM, said:

I'm seeing some good trends lately ...
- renewed focus on improving faction play (including a match maker)
- removing Escort (hopefully to be replaced with a better game mode or at least Escort with a smarter VIP)
- adding back the old maps (hopefully with a few tweaks)
- reskinning (and hopefully, improving) current maps

Can we please get a PSR reset, to help with the quality of quick play matches?

Take me as an example of a player that does not currently belong in Tier 1. Two years ago, I belonged in Tier 1. This was right after MWOWC 2016, at the peak of my activity in game, and admittedly, at what I feel like was the peak of my skill. Since then ... I've played less (much less); my aim, positioning, map awareness, and overall skill has degraded; and, when I get matched with MWOWC 18 top team players in solo queue games, I can predict the results.

Has my PSR bar slipped one pixel from maxed out Tier 1? No.

I feel like I belong in a lower Tier, mostly to be fair to the actual good players in Tier 1 who expect more of their team mates.

Here are three options, without completely re-working the PSR system ...
- (1) Keep players' PSR as is. (Not recommended.)
- (2) Complete PSR reset. Put everyone in Tier 5, have a few months of truly hilarious matches while everyone sorts themselves out. (While it would be funny, only slightly more recommended ... those that don't read the announcements and patch notes would rage ... really bad players would get farmed by decent players.)
- (3) PSR reset based on a maximum amount of past match history (maybe the last 500 or 1000 matches) over a certain amount of time (maybe the past year). (This is my recommendation, I leave the little details up to you to properly distribute the players.)

Of course, actual adjustments to the PSR system would be the harder, but more preferable, option, either with:
- adjusted increase / decrease thresholds ... possibly different for each tier, or
- a degrade-over-time function, where you have to actually perform consistently at the expected level, or
- PSR resets every month or so (like the quick play leaderboards, for example), or
- a wider range of Tiers, like maybe twice as many, with the match maker adjusted to open gates as required to support the population, or
- an actual ranking system, where ~15% of active players are Tier 1, ~20% are Tier 2, ~30% are Tier 3, ~20% are Tier 4, ~15% are Tier 5, or
- some of all of that.

TL;DR: Can we please get a PSR reset, to help with the quality of quick play matches?

dont know what the issue is, had a bunch of good games last night. Took the scorch for a stroll and watched my kdr, wr, and ms go up.. so what you talking about Willis?

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Khobai, on 22 December 2018 - 04:44 AM, said:

(see one post up)

You'll note that this is only one of my ideas to help fix PSR (that would require work on PGI's behalf) ...

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 21 December 2018 - 06:02 PM, said:

- a wider range of Tiers, like maybe twice as many, with the match maker adjusted to open gates as required to support the population, or

Right now, the match maker starts with one PSR level, then, if it can't build a match after a certain amount of time, opens to +/-1. This concept could easily be adapted to expand to +/-1 after a minute or so, out to as far as necessary to build a match.

Most players I know would rather wait a little bit to get better quality matches.

Old MW4 Ranger, on 22 December 2018 - 01:05 AM, said:

(see three posts up)

I agree that population is a problem. We both admit that we are part of that problem -- not playing as often as before. As you may recall, your initial PSR seeding was based on your match history (mine began at the top of Tier 2, for example).

In my proposal for a PSR reset, only one possible choice is a complete reset to zero, putting everyone in Tier 5. This would be a hot, hilarious mess.

My recommended choice would be to gate your match history to your most recent 500 or so matches. If you've been performing at the level required to remain Tier 1, you don't have an issue. If you haven't, you degrade to the proper Tier.

How long you have been playing should have no bearing on your current Tier (this is part of the current problem).

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Grus, on 22 December 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

dont know what the issue is, had a bunch of good games last night. Took the scorch for a stroll and watched my kdr, wr, and ms go up.. so what you talking about Willis?

To be fair, so did I (except I was in my shiny new Chargers, instead of the Scorch).

Was this your experience for the past few months? The past year?

Or was this a small bright spot likely attributable to slightly increased player numbers (due to holidays, events, etc.)?

[Grus]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 22 December 2018 - 08:40 AM, said:

To be fair, so did I (except I was in my shiny new Chargers, instead of the Scorch).

Was this your experience for the past few months? The past year?

Or was this a small bright spot likely attributable to slightly increased player numbers (due to holidays, events, etc.)?

Its deffinitly a bright spot but for the most part ive had the reverse less and less. IDK if it just me or what, but for the most part the QP pugs are getting better at communicating at lest. Ill have the bad teams now and then but ill also have the teams i feel like im struggling to keep up (my fav). So i guess my mileage is a bit diffrent than yours, sorry for your luck.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

justcallme A S H, on 22 December 2018 - 01:37 AM, said:

(see above)

That's fair. My reset proposals would help alleviate the problem, but wouldn't solve it in the long term.

While PGI is focused on other things, Quick Play will remain in its current state. A PSR reset (using recent data, rather than our entire history), ideally using a data set limited to the most recent 500 or so matches or the last year, and being recalculated every few months, would more accurately reflect a players position in the population stack.

[Chados]

Dude. I’d be so for this. With my craptstic stats I’d be back in T5 for years, LOL.

[Shadowomega1]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 22 December 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

You'll note that this is only one of my ideas to help fix PSR (that would require work on PGI's behalf) ...

Right now, the match maker starts with one PSR level, then, if it can't build a match after a certain amount of time, opens to +/-1. This concept could easily be adapted to expand to +/-1 after a minute or so, out to as far as necessary to build a match.

Most players I know would rather wait a little bit to get better quality matches.


I agree that population is a problem. We both admit that we are part of that problem -- not playing as often as before. As you may recall, your initial PSR seeding was based on your match history (mine began at the top of Tier 2, for example).

In my proposal for a PSR reset, only one possible choice is a complete reset to zero, putting everyone in Tier 5. This would be a hot, hilarious mess.

My recommended choice would be to gate your match history to your most recent 500 or so matches. If you've been performing at the level required to remain Tier 1, you don't have an issue. If you haven't, you degrade to the proper Tier.

How long you have been playing should have no bearing on your current Tier (this is part of the current problem).

The issue on that is aa player with an average match score of 150 to 170 will be in tier 1 as there are plenty of tier 1 pilots with very low average match scores. They would have to raise it to 250 or 300 average match score.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Shadowomega1, on 22 December 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

The issue on that is aa player with an average match score of 150 to 170 will be in tier 1 as there are plenty of tier 1 pilots with very low average match scores. They would have to raise it to 250 or 300 average match score.

Wouldn't that be "low hanging fruit" to change the the match score values for gains/loses? Wouldn't even have to change anything else, right?

[Jonathan8883]

Aff. I belong in Tier 2, but I'm stuck at full T1 bar.
This would be a decent patch until a proper system is implemented.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Shadowomega1, on 22 December 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

The issue on that is aa player with an average match score of 150 to 170 will be in tier 1 as there are plenty of tier 1 pilots with very low average match scores. They would have to raise it to 250 or 300 average match score.

That is one part of the problem, yes.

It takes lots of matches for those players to get in Tier 1, but they do.

That is where my "Option (3)" comes in. Instead of using the complete history of all matches forever to determine PSR, only use the most recent 500 or so.

Ideally, the PSR gain / loss thresholds would be changed to be more restrictive at higher tiers, but I'm trying to avoid asking PGI to do more than just use the tools they already have rather than adjusting them or creating new ones.

[Racerxintegra2k]

it'll work for a couple months at least. no reason to not reset.