157 replies to this topic

[HammerMaster]

LordNothing, on 11 January 2019 - 06:09 AM, said:

i dont really consider the mechanics of tt game to be lore. when i think lore i think the fiction, you know the books. and would rather the game follow the books than bt rules with regards to lore.

Duly noted.
I've been using lore and source material interchangeably.
You're thinking fluff?

[LordNothing]

HammerMaster, on 11 January 2019 - 06:16 AM, said:

Duly noted.
I've been using lore and source material interchangeably.
You're thinking fluff?

i suppose you could call it fluff. its certainly ok to use the tt rules/mechanics/values as loose guidelines but trying to make it exactly the same is an exercise in futility.

[HammerMaster]

LordNothing, on 11 January 2019 - 06:28 AM, said:

i suppose you could call it fluff. its certainly ok to use the tt rules/mechanics/values as loose guidelines but trying to make it exactly the same is an exercise in futility.

And today's metric isn't futile?

[LordNothing]

HammerMaster, on 11 January 2019 - 06:47 AM, said:

And today's metric isn't futile?

pgi is futile.

[Mr Andersson]

In my opinion, the game mechanics should convey a feeling and immersion of the Battletech universe, not of the tabletop game Battletech.

Edited by Mr Andersson, 11 January 2019 - 06:50 AM.

[HammerMaster]

Mr Andersson, on 11 January 2019 - 06:50 AM, said:

In my opinion, the game mechanics should convey a feeling and immersion of the Battletech universe, not of the tabletop game Battletech.

And which are we experiencing now?

Not for nothing. I was not trying to hijack while waiting for my statement to be addressed via Mr Ash.

Edited by HammerMaster, 11 January 2019 - 07:49 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

LordNothing, on 11 January 2019 - 06:09 AM, said:

i dont really consider the mechanics of tt game to be lore. when i think lore i think the fiction, you know the books. and would rather the game follow the books than bt rules with regards to lore.

Yeah we've been over this countless times.

LORE/TT vaules should not and can not be strictly adhered to when trying to balance a FPS. PGI understand this and in many, many cases are no where near the TT/LORE aspect because it simply does not work. Pretty simple.

[Prototelis]

Also worth noting the game could be much more immersive, while still being wildly divergent from TT rules and the bits of fluff that just don't make any sense for an action game.

TT rules might be fine, if the game played like World of Warcraft. But it doesn't, its an action game.

[HammerMaster]

[Funk1777]

justcallme A S H, on 08 January 2019 - 09:11 PM, said:

Ask and ye shall receive... (dont view on a mobile lol)



This was data current to end of Oct 2018. Sorry there is nothing Dec. It's near enough IMO for the point here. I also asked him why some of the guys with 20,000 games were not on there and explaination below of chart.

[15:51] Tarogato: yeah there's dudes way way above 2,000 matches, but the chart is so sparse, so I cut it off
[15:51] Tarogato: the numbers in each cell are exactly how many people fit that X and Y coordinate for matchscore and gamesplayed

With a free to play game the numbers of guys with under a few hundred games played should probably be the ones truncated. If you scroll through jarls list from the start you see that most of the players, the guys you see in most games have way over 2000 matches played. These are the guys you will most likely see in game. Hell most of the people in this post have over 2k games and arent even on the chart. That doesnt take in to account for alts and name changes of course which there are quite a few.

A guy with 6k games(which both of you have) plays 30 times as much as a guy with 200 so giving the same weight to everyone when talking about population doesn't work. At least not in the discussion of balancing teams.

Edited by Funk1777, 11 January 2019 - 03:41 PM.

[50 50]

ASH, you made an interesting comment about the LRM use/player behaviour when the lower trajectory change accidentally made it's way into the game in that you felt it encouraged moving out of line of site to get the higher arc.

I don't think you would see a change in the global behaviour of players using LRMs unless the indirect and lock on features of the weapon were removed entirely to simply bring them in line with the SRMs, MRMs and LRMs as a long range direct (dumb fire) missile.
Whether that would see them used in the higher levels of play is debatable but if MRMs don't see use I hardly expect a change like this to suddenly see LRMs get used.
On the loadout side of things we may see some synergy with weapons like the large laser and it may get players looking at builds on the mechs a little differently.
When you don't have the choice though, the player behaviour is altered.

EDIT: Removed rambling
If LRMs were direct fire only with no lock on, players would use them differently.
If they only had an indirect arc and no lock on, they would be used differently.

If players have the option to lock onto a mech they do not have LOS to and lob missiles over intervening obstacles without fear of getting shot at while those missiles track the target, of course they will use the weapon that way. The weapon creates that behaviour.

Our equipment determines our role and the behaviour of that equipment determines player behaviour. We can't change that without changing the functionality of the equipment.

Personally I see the lock on feature as something that should be reserved for the streak weapons.
The Indirect arc targeting mechs creates a player behaviour that half the MWO population resents.
It would be interesting to test LRMs as a direct LOS dumb fire missile system.
It would be interesting to add in a second set of LRMs as indirect AoE support weapons that we fire at a location.

Edited by 50 50, 13 January 2019 - 05:03 PM.

[Vxheous]

HammerMaster, on 11 January 2019 - 04:38 AM, said:

My issue is that your circle does not include all gameplay.

You keep saying this as if someone like Ash or myself play a different game. WE PLAY THE SAME GAME. In fact, I contend that your experience does not include all gameplay (since you probably don't play competitive). Let me make this clear: Ash plays Solo Queue (a lot), just like you. Ash plays Group Queue (in both small groups of 2, all the way up to 12s depending on time of day, stream groups, etc). Ash plays Faction Warfare (both the scouting form, and invasion). Ash plays Solaris (both 1vs1s, and 2vs2s). Ash plays Competitive (this includes private lobby practices, and actual competitive matches in leagues like BFM, and PGI's MWOWC). This is everything this game has to offer, every single mode, and Ash plays it.

Where in all of that does not include ALL gameplay? Yeah, Competitive players play games in private lobbies but they all play the public modes, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. They use the same weapons systems, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. Ash plays every single weapon system in the game (yes, even lrms, in fact, he loves his clag)

Edited by Vxheous, 11 January 2019 - 06:16 PM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2019 - 07:09 PM, said:

Hifiman HE400s. Took a long time to run them in, now though, amazing.

Ah that is why the headband was striking me as so familiar. I just picked up a Hifiman Sundara a few weeks ago.

[LordNothing]

justcallme A S H, on 11 January 2019 - 02:42 PM, said:

Yeah we've been over this countless times.

LORE/TT vaules should not and can not be strictly adhered to when trying to balance a FPS. PGI understand this and in many, many cases are no where near the TT/LORE aspect because it simply does not work. Pretty simple.

isnt that what i said? idk maybe im stupid.

i just like to make a distinction between tt mechanics and bt fiction, which frankly do not always agree. if pgi followed the fiction over the bt rules the game would be a lot more interesting.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 January 2019 - 06:33 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Vxheous, on 11 January 2019 - 06:14 PM, said:

You keep saying this as if someone like Ash or myself play a different game. WE PLAY THE SAME GAME. In fact, I contend that your experience does not include all gameplay (since you probably don't play competitive). Let me make this clear: Ash plays Solo Queue (a lot), just like you. Ash plays Group Queue (in both small groups of 2, all the way up to 12s depending on time of day, stream groups, etc). Ash plays Faction Warfare (both the scouting form, and invasion). Ash plays Solaris (both 1vs1s, and 2vs2s). Ash plays Competitive (this includes private lobby practices, and actual competitive matches in leagues like BFM, and PGI's MWOWC). This is everything this game has to offer, every single mode, and Ash plays it.

Where in all of that does not include ALL gameplay? Yeah, Competitive players play games in private lobbies but they all play the public modes, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. They use the same weapons systems, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. Ash plays every single weapon system in the game (yes, even lrms, in fact, he loves his clag)

I don't know why you felt the need to jump in for him as I posted without heat or vitriol. I'm trying to get an answer from him and will not prostrate myself before you guys.
Fair enough I don't comp.
I'll reiterate that LRM has a serious issue that can be addressed in the manner I suggested and he has unique access to people that A LOT us will not. And A LOT of us may feel as I do.
Denigrating shaming posts , and the toxicity needs to end.

Edited by HammerMaster, 11 January 2019 - 06:40 PM.

[Vxheous]

HammerMaster, on 11 January 2019 - 06:32 PM, said:

I don't know why you felt the need to jump in for him as I posted without heat or vitriol. I'm trying to get an answer from him and will not prostrate myself before you guys.
Fair enough I don't comp.
I'll reiterate that LRM has a serious issue that can be addressed in the manner I suggested and he has unique access to people that A LOT us will not. And A LOT of us may feel as I do.
Denigrating shaming posts , and the toxicity needs to end.

How am I shaming or being toxic?

[HammerMaster]

Vxheous, on 11 January 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

How am I shaming or being toxic?

Across all the forums sir.

[Vxheous]

HammerMaster, on 11 January 2019 - 07:08 PM, said:

Across all the forums sir.

o k.....I don't think so.

[HammerMaster]

Vxheous, on 11 January 2019 - 07:11 PM, said:

o k.....I don't think so.

Oh sure not likely.

[Thorqemada]

Imho when they spoke about LRM and how much Damage they theoretically do they totally missed the point of excessive counter options both hard and soft counters and as well the shameful low accuracy of the weapon so the real Damage is a tiny fraction of the Damage done in theory therefore all balancing must be based on the "Ingame Reality" and not theorycrafting !!!

Especially as LRM afaik work worse than Streaks bcs Streaks become more efficient the more destroyed a Mech is while LRM become less efficient as they do not have the "seek undestroyed Bodyparts" mechanic Streaks have on top of all many other disadvantages!

Regarding unproblematic "Lock On" after the lock on patch that is the high FPS low Ping Masterrace experience only a part of the Playerbase is fortunate to have access too...

Edited by Thorqemada, 11 January 2019 - 07:24 PM.