90 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

The current prevalence of ATMs is vastly different from the state they were introduced. A series of gameplay changes has built up over that time to make them the preferred missile system instead of an optional one.

Originally they were the Clan equivalent of MRMs, an optional missile system that was neither better or worse than the alternatives and attractive option when missile hardpoints were perhaps limited. They are now found on most Clan mechs and in quantities I find excessive. Quad setups are quite common and quite effective.

When shipped AMS even single systems took quite a bit of their bite off. AMS was cutback, speed was upped, spread was tightened, minimum range reduced and the heat system was overhauled. Other changes involving missile reticle behavior and arc have also come and gone. The environment in which they now operate is greatly changed.

The manner in which the damage is applied is quite dangerous as well. Its a simple task to get 600-1000 damage using ATMs. Its not sloppy damage either its quite concentrated. The kill shots are not lucky finishing shots they are large dangerous alphas to the center of the mech.

My final criticism is the generous amount of ammo. True it is less than SRMs, but the base amount is only slightly less while having on average a much larger potential for delivered damage. The base amount is large enough that the skill tree ammo boost is significant. I feel such a powerful weapon should run somewhat lean on ammo where shots need to be considered like HGR or LBX20.

SRMs are being pushed into a very confined niche, where really they should be the bread and butter of close range builds.


Do you think ATMs are displacing other missile systems? Do you think their popularity is altering average TTK for better or worse?

[El Bandito]

Don't really see that many ATMs, just the usual amount.

[Nightbird]

ATMs are super OP, can easily core out an assault with 1 volley from an ATM48 mech, kill with 2. That been said, like LRMs, its ideal use is limited to FP where flanking is very rare. In QP, it's easily countered by a light sneaking into minimal range, or else you're forced to mount less ATMs on a more mobile chassis, in which case AMS hard counters it.

As such, I don't see any nerfs happening.

[NRP]

It seems to be the new flavor of poptart in the solo queue. Not nearly as annoying to me as LRMs though. Although I guess it's in the same "no balls, no skill" category.

Edited by NRP, 13 January 2019 - 10:57 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

ATMS are not without drawbacks, they run very hot and have a min range. I find it an analogue system to mrms. Mrm60 QuickDraw, mrm 80 quickdraw, mrm 60 Wolverine, mrm 90-100 stalker/cyclops etc etc.
I mean if you want to talk about ammo efficiency....

ATMs are not an optional system, they are an alternative to clan garbage lrms that are only good if you are launching 60-90 at one time. I don’t touch Clan lrms

[Spheroid]

El Bandito, on 13 January 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

Don't really see that many ATMs, just the usual amount.

My contention is their use has increased over time, indicating an increase in their efficacy. You have not observed this?

[Jackal Noble]

NRP, on 13 January 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

It seems to be the new flavor of poptart in the solo queue. Not nearly as annoying to me as LRMs though. Although I guess it's in the same "no balls, no skill" category.

You’re right, pointing and clicking at something is so skillful and full of balls.

Spheroid, on 13 January 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

My contention is their use has increased over time, indicating an increase in their efficacy. You have not observed this?

Could it not be that they are now an established weapon system?
How much RAC builds do you see? How many Heavy Gauss do you see? How many LasVomit builds do you see? How many Dakka builds do you see?

Edited by Jackal Noble, 13 January 2019 - 11:03 AM.

[Grus]

El Bandito, on 13 January 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

Don't really see that many ATMs, just the usual amount.

IMO

It's because as of right now LRM's are out preforming atm's over all.

[Jackal Noble]

Grus, on 13 January 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:

IMO

It's because as of right now LRM's are out preforming atm's over all.

Lmao

[Anomalocaris]

I really only think they have increased due to:

1) Recent giveaway of the ACW-A which, with ECM, is a great, mobile ATM24 mech that takes up minimal tonnage
2) Usage of the system on the Vapor Eagle which does them well and was recently intro'd and the Hellfire, which just became available for c-bills.

Outside of that I rarely see them in QP beyond the occasional SNV or SNS. 1 AMS hard counters an ATM12 pretty much completely, and a AMS specialized mech (NVA-S, MLX, etc.) will eat multiple ATM12s without even breaking a sweat.

-edit- almost forgot that the nature of QP dictates you really need range to consistently do well and ATMs are a nice midpoint between C-LRM and C-SRM for the average player. They can hit effectively at 500-600m but reward playing close in.

Edited by Anomalocaris, 13 January 2019 - 11:09 AM.

[Cyanogene]

Cry beyotch, cry.

Edited by Cyanogene, 13 January 2019 - 11:06 AM.

[Steve Pryde]

Imo PGI should have ATMs introduced as a missile weapon system alternative between SRMs and LRMs. I mean they have more range than LRMs which is quite a joke (and yes I know that they are dealing nearly no dmg at long range).

Just cut the range in half and make them the same dmg at every range (maybe 2 to 2.5 dmg per missile, 3 is way too much) and even remove the minimum range (or reduce it to like 50 meters). In exchange more spread to make them not to devastating.

[Yiryi-Sa]

Anomalocaris, on 13 January 2019 - 11:04 AM, said:

1 AMS hard counters an ATM12 pretty much completely, and a AMS specialized mech (NVA-S, MLX, etc.) will eat multiple ATM12s without even breaking a sweat.

To be honest, if players ran a single AMS (even a single Laser AMS is not much heat, if at all) then ATMs would be relatively difficult to use. But nope.

[Celtic Warrior]

ATM's are fine as they are now. I actually don't even see many of them on the field very often, last night I saw none. Seems to me that the poster got wrecked by 1 ATM boat and now is crying for nerfing lol.

Bring AMS if you're having issues.

If anything needs nerfing is the RAC's, I get wrecked by those more then ATM's by a large margin.

Edited by Celtic Warrior, 13 January 2019 - 11:21 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Nothing puts down a push faster than massed ATM fire. Not even DHG is that strong.

Edited by Y E O N N E, 13 January 2019 - 11:27 AM.

[Nightbird]

Y E O N N E, on 13 January 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

Nothing puts down a push faster than massed ATM fire. Not even DHG is that strong.

Yes and no, yes if the push has no AMS, no if each member has AMS, in which case the ATMs are hard countered.

[Spheroid]

Celtic Warrior, on 13 January 2019 - 11:18 AM, said:

ATM's are fine as they are now. I actually don't even see many of them on the field very often, last night I saw none. Seems to me that the poster got wrecked by 1 ATM boat and now is crying for nerfing lol.

You would be wrong in that sir, I am not on the receiving end I am on the giving end. I just picked up most of the Hellfires and my matchscore exceeds the effort involved. The mechs are barely leveled. Ideally there should be more effort required.

I am on the receiving end in faction and they are objectively good weapons. Also you are not seeing any in QP? They are quite common on Vapor Eagles and Hunchbacks. What timezone are you playing where you are not seeing ATMs? They are a common weapon, not a rare one. An example of a rare weapon would be something like a LGR or I.S. LBX-2/5.

Edited by Spheroid, 13 January 2019 - 11:49 AM.

[Koniving]

Been playing quite a bit this month.

Last time I saw an ATM was in December. Been mostly LRM rain, laser vomit and the occasional but rare ballistic boat. (Why are AC/2s becoming popular on Dire Wolves? Yes I said AC/2, not UAC/2....)

[Captain Caveman DE]

AMS is a -very- hard counter to ATMs, though.

maybe people at the moment just think they can get away without 'wasting' 1-1,5t on AMS.
I don't know why, but you see so many ...different... things in QP that it boggles the mind, anyway.

[Koniving]

So this "problem" isn't very common in quickplay tier 3 (which has players from pretty much all the tiers likely to appear at some point.)