93 replies to this topic

[Alex Morgaine]

I have a ton and a half ams on a lot of my Mechs, it does better when there's 4-6 in the area but occasionally its just sipping whiskey in a kitfox time. Usually get a brawl in no time when i dust off the cute one.

[Wil McCullough]

Y E O N N E, on 14 January 2019 - 10:19 PM, said:

Many of them have expressed these sentiments on their own streams, and most of us hang out in ASH's Discord channel and talk sh*t both directly and indirectly about LRMs all the time, except King Hark. He's not in the channel, but he did go on an on-stream rant last week calling all lock-on-players absolute scum, representing everything that is wrong with gaming today because nothing they do requires any skill and they get so rewarded for being so absolutely clueless. It was really something.

TBQH, El Bandito does not hang out on ASH's Discord and I don't know what his stance on them is.



Lots of group play before the CLAG CENTRAL area.

He wasn't sandbagging his team at all, that was kind of the point of the meme. He doesn't have to do much, and he gets to basically relax in the back while farming significantly more c-bills than literally 99% of the playing population and getting way more wins than losses in the process.

Though the point of displaying the stats was really to show who King LRM Potato is, lul.

I see. Thanks for the clarification!

[Sjorpha]

Y E O N N E, on 14 January 2019 - 08:54 PM, said:

I can't give you his LRM stats page, but I can give you the final result:

I mean I understand the point about LRMs being too easy to play etc.

But if the point was too prove LRMs are overpowered you'd expect the performance to be higher than normal, not lower.

These stats would actually indicate that LRMs are weaker than the weapons and mechs he usually plays.

If a slight decrease in stats is what happens when a top level player plays the "easy mode" weapon that seems like pretty good balance to me actually, at least for solo queue.

Group and FP are different beasts with the narc support of course, a similar experiment for group queue/FP could be interesting. Top players, big group, all LRMS on every map for 3 months and then compare to the same group in full tryhard direct fire mode 3 months. Not asking anyone to actually do such a thing obviously, but if the goal is to settle the actual competitive strength of LRMs...

You guys on the top almost had me convinced LRMs were OP when you all agree on it, I'll go back to being a bit sceptical about that claim now I think. It's starting to look like you don't actually mean overpowered, but rather that LRMs should be a weak weapon and isn't weak enough when it almost matches the strongest direct fire weapons. Now IMO slightly weaker, as indicated by the above evidence (actually quite a bit weaker if you go by the win/loss numbers) is perfectly fine for a weapon that's a bit easier to play.

Edited by Sjorpha, 15 January 2019 - 12:29 AM.

[OmniFail]

Sjorpha, on 15 January 2019 - 12:22 AM, said:

I mean I understand the point about LRMs being too easy to play etc.

But if the point was too prove LRMs are overpowered you'd expect the performance to be higher than normal, not lower.

These stats would actually indicate that LRMs are weaker than the weapons and mechs he usually plays.

If a slight decrease in stats is what happens when a top level player plays the "easy mode" weapon that seems like pretty good balance to me actually, at least for solo queue.

Group and FP are different beasts with the narc support of course, a similar experiment for group queue/FP could be interesting. Top players, big group, all LRMS on every map for 3 months and then compare to the same group in full tryhard direct fire mode 3 months. Not asking anyone to actually do such a thing obviously, but if the goal is to settle the actual competitive strength of LRMs...

You guys on the top almost had me convinced LRMs were OP when you all agree on it, I'll go back to being a bit sceptical about that claim now I think. It's starting to look like you don't actually mean overpowered, but rather that LRMs should be a weak weapon and isn't weak enough when it almost matches the strongest direct fire weapons. Now IMO slightly weaker, as indicated by the above evidence (actually quite a bit weaker if you go by the win/loss numbers) is perfectly fine for a weapon that's a bit easier to play.

Iknowrite... Numbers... Who would hve thought.

Anyway, what do I know. Im just parasitic lock leech scum without a streaming bully pulpit to spew my bias opinion from.

The truth is out of a c-LRM 20 with Artemis and LOS only about 7.67 damage is done to a Assualt sized targes CTt per volley. Thats not taking into accout AMS and damage spreading sheilding menuvers. Also LRM boats themselves don't h have the sheilding option theemselves because of lock times. This face time is further punished by the giant hit boxes that are produced by equiping LRMs on most mechs. Then theres ECM, Sensor Range, Equipmemt Tonnage Taxes to make them viable and finally you have to invest in close range weapons.

It's a real walk in the park

Anyway I know
Lock=No Skill
IDF=No Risk

Im parsitic cancer that should be publicly shamed on the fourms

[Snowhawk]

Wait….. what? Did not some People mention that lrms's are useless and garbage?
By the way, there must be a reason that some highranked players were damage farming with lrms, think about it....

[El Bandito]

Sjorpha, on 15 January 2019 - 12:22 AM, said:

But if the point was too prove LRMs are overpowered you'd expect the performance to be higher than normal, not lower.

These stats would actually indicate that LRMs are weaker than the weapons and mechs he usually plays.

If a slight decrease in stats is what happens when a top level player plays the "easy mode" weapon that seems like pretty good balance to me actually, at least for solo queue.

^ This. My same class DF mechs generally have higher stats in terms of WLR (the stat that matters the most) compared to LRM boating mechs in SQ. I have been lurming since 2013.

Y E O N N E, on 14 January 2019 - 10:19 PM, said:

TBQH, El Bandito does not hang out on ASH's Discord and I don't know what his stance on them is.

IMO, LRMs can be only considered OP when used in organized settings against people who are not used to dealing with it, and even when expected can be too strong on a few maps. In SQ, it is not OP at all.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 January 2019 - 02:01 AM.

[Vellron2005]

OmniFail, on 14 January 2019 - 09:23 PM, said:

Ok im not gonna say if I am better or not. Because this guy is obviously good. But we cannot compare my QP career stats to his organized group play stats. Im sure if I had a team like EMP backing me up aginst teams that often contain pugs my stats would look amazing too. I would like to see his weapon stats though. I would also like to see Vellons. I think his might be a better cntender for QP stats but I am not sure.


Ps did some research maybe not vellron

Sorry to disappoint.. I play many other things besides LRMs, but am best when using LRMs..

But thanks for thinking of me :-)

Never claimed I was the best, or even close to that, never will..

Also, take into consideration I predominantly play Group Que, so QP stats differ.. ;-)

Edited by Vellron2005, 15 January 2019 - 01:55 AM.

[OmniFail]

El Bandito, on 15 January 2019 - 01:44 AM, said:

^ This. My same class DF mechs generally have higher stats in terms of WLR (the stat that matters the most) compared to LRM boating mechs. I have been lurming since 2013.

Now go back and read the third paragraph of my first post. The part about PSR and MM and then think about what it means kn terms of W/L

Good honest post BTW

[OmniFail]

Vellron2005, on 15 January 2019 - 01:53 AM, said:

Sorry to disappoint.. I play many other things besides LRMs, but am best when using LRMs..

But thanks for thinking of me :-)

Never claimed I was the best, or even close to that, never will..

Also, take into consideration I predominantly play Group Que, so QP stats differ.. ;-)

I would still like to see your LRM weapon stats and Novakains too. Just to see what I can gleen from them

[El Bandito]

OmniFail, on 15 January 2019 - 02:03 AM, said:

Now go back and read the third paragraph of my first post. The part about PSR and MM and then think about what it means kn terms of W/L

Good honest post BTW

Oh you mean this part?

OmniFail, on 14 January 2019 - 04:47 PM, said:

Furthermore, because I still put out large numbers, I get a decent PSR. Which in turn affects MM. But because of the low kill potential of the weapons system it creates a imbalance that contributes to roll stomps.

That means very little cause due to the upwards bias of the PSR system, as long as one is not an absolute noob, everyone can eventually reach T1. Which means even in T1 you won't see good enough opposition. Better opposition than the brain dead chronic T5s for sure, but still nothing to be concerned about when playing with LRMs.

Not to mention thanks to low population, MM valve gets constantly released and lowbies start to flood into T1 queues easily.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 January 2019 - 02:16 AM.

[Kroete]

OmniFail, on 14 January 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

Two whole months. LOL Are we talking game time or real time. These are my clan lrm stats which make up the lions share of LRMs launched. Four years worth. I would really like to see someone post numbers that can beat this volume. I would be interested to see their stats. Until then I call King of the Potato Launchers

C-LRM 5 73 152,307 58,169 38.19% 07:50:44 56,952
C-LRM 10 263 350,086 137,436 39.26% 1 day 05:55:43 137,867
C-LRM 15 334 423,150 170,392 40.27% 1 day 14:12:33 191,895
C-LRM 20 44 6,306 2,674 42.40% 05:02:47 26,567
C-LRM 10 + ARTEMIS 136 95,166 41,611 43.72% 15:22:11 43,003
C-LRM 15 + ARTEMIS 258 181,673 71,693 39.46% 1 day 05:34:45 155,817
C-LRM 20 + ARTEMIS 28 12,770 4,917 38.50% 03:09:26 12,684

Edited by Kroete, 15 January 2019 - 02:21 AM.

[OmniFail]

I think that MM not only sorts by tier but also by average match score. I may be wrong in this. But, if I am right a good player that uses LRMs willd have a good match score but will lack the killing potential because of PGIs DPS philosophy in regard to LRMs. This means that there may be a greater chance of my team getting rolled because of my reduced ability to secure kills.

I cant prove this fact but it h has crossed my mind

Edited by OmniFail, 15 January 2019 - 02:26 AM.

[OmniFail]

Thanks for sharing Kroete.
Its seems that even though I have luanched a lot more LRMs than others my accuracy kinda sucks. I wonder if its because sometimes I will fire at any dumb lock.

[Kroete]

OmniFail, on 15 January 2019 - 02:24 AM, said:

I think that MM not only sorts by tier but also by average match score. I may be wrong in this. But, if I am right a good player that uses LRMs willd have a good match score but will lack the killing potential because of PGIs DPS philosophy in regard to LRMs. This means that there may be a greater chance of my team getting rolled because of my reduced ability to secure kills.

I cant prove this fact but it h has crossed my mind

To bad we dont see kmdd, the killshot is random if more then one player fires at the same enemy.
Opening the enemy is the real work, after that a pir who swipes the enemy for 3 seconds does the rest.

If i use atms, i get a lot less kills but lots of kmmd.
This is because my atm24+srm16 opens nearly every mech with one salvo,
mostly my teammates kill them during my atms are in cooldown.
With lrms i get mostly 1 kill for every 2-3 kmdd ...

OmniFail, on 15 January 2019 - 02:36 AM, said:

Its seems that even though I have luanched a lot more LRMs than others my accuracy kinda sucks. I wonder if its because sometimes I will fire at any dumb lock.

The accuracy comes before the first arcnerf, until then i was mostly at front,
using artemis and getting my own locks.
Only around 1/3 of my ammo was used indirect.
That changed after all the indirect buffs and direct nerfs.


EDIT:
Forgett the stats,
After locking again at them i find that they are wrong,
i used the lrm80 svn more often the 44 times.

Edited by Kroete, 15 January 2019 - 04:48 AM.

[OmniFail]

My kmdds, and solo kills have really dropped off with the recent changes. I also have carry a lot less ammo. Around 7 tons for 60 tubes. But I think it has to do more with the aggressive play style I have been experimenting with.

[El Bandito]

OmniFail, on 15 January 2019 - 02:24 AM, said:

I think that MM not only sorts by tier but also by average match score. I may be wrong in this.

No it does not. Only tiers matter in current MM. And even then the MM valve is constantly loose due to low population.

[OmniFail]

El Bandito, on 15 January 2019 - 02:58 AM, said:

No it does not. Only tiers matter in current MM. And even then the MM valve is constantly loose due to low population.

Not sure if I'm happy to hear that I'm paranoid. But, thanks for setting me straight anyway Bandito.

[Lethe Wyvern]

Sjorpha, on 15 January 2019 - 12:22 AM, said:

You guys on the top almost had me convinced LRMs were OP when you all agree on it, I'll go back to being a bit sceptical about that claim now I think. It's starting to look like you don't actually mean overpowered, but rather that LRMs should be a weak weapon and isn't weak enough when it almost matches the strongest direct fire weapons. Now IMO slightly weaker, as indicated by the above evidence (actually quite a bit weaker if you go by the win/loss numbers) is perfectly fine for a weapon that's a bit easier to play.

Excuse me, what?

Oh wait, you mean after that "lock on window" nerf adjustment LRM users were forced to use their hands instead of feet?

Edited by Lethe Wyvern, 15 January 2019 - 03:16 AM.

[OmniFail]

Lethe Wyvern, on 15 January 2019 - 03:14 AM, said:

Excuse me, what?

Oh wait, you mean after that "lock on window" nerf adjustment LRM users were forced to use their hands instead of feet?

Don't forget the no skill streak and ATM users had to start using their hands too

[El Bandito]

Lethe Wyvern, on 15 January 2019 - 03:14 AM, said:

Excuse me, what?

Oh wait, you mean after that "lock on window" nerf adjustment LRM users were forced to use their hands instead of feet?

I believe that video was made before the lock on reticle area nerf. Nowadays it is harder to keep the cursor on a moving target for locks--especially when using the foot. So it is a bit outdated in current context.