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Patch Notes - 1.4.193.0 - 22-Jan-2019


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#161 Akillius

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:12 PM

View PostHammerMaster, on 21 January 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

It was in the top left where you see MWO/S7 now before the rebrand sir.

Okay I never noticed that.
[img]http://web.archive.org/web/20160305045816im_/https://static.mwomercs.com/img/theme/mainMenuLogo.png[/img]
Here's a link to the archived webpage from 2016.
https://web.archive....//mwomercs.com/


View PostHammerMaster, on 21 January 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

Yes. Nor was there the MechWarrior RPG yet.

Seems a obvious, but some GMs had house rules and allow droidwarriors to leave/escape/eject their mech. Before MW RPG; they just used infantry rules for them, except weaponless. I only knew of a couple times they escaped and only because of a previous campaign where they had a mech or enough cbills to make it worthwhile to do or (a few times) to argue over, and one GM insisted on a skill going down either piloting or gunnery. And it was like that in BattleTech II for a couple years as well.

And yes by 1986/87 I also bought a copy of this book when I could, the cover art with a Mech's cockpit seen in colour with the fighter plane like instruments was memorable.
http://www.sarna.net...le_Playing_Game

Edited by Akillius, 21 January 2019 - 06:14 PM.


#162 Koniving

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:27 PM

View PostDee Eight, on 21 January 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:


There's also PGI"s crap code and its inability to deal with large missile volleys, particle cannons, or lag properly. Four SRM6 launchers fired as a group should not register less damage on the target than firing them in a chain...


That's a mixture of crytek/pgi/server and HSR limitation. Mostly the latter two according to Karl (no longer working there) Berg 2014.

#163 HammerMaster

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:29 PM

View PostAkillius, on 21 January 2019 - 06:12 PM, said:




Posted Image

And pay up.

Edited by HammerMaster, 21 January 2019 - 06:30 PM.


#164 Koniving

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:33 PM

View PostAkillius, on 21 January 2019 - 01:20 PM, said:


2008 "MechWarrior franchise game" announced by PGI and Smith & Tinker
2009 "MechWarrior 5" announced with a rather illogical photoshop trailer.
2011 IPG and PGI made a lot of apologies and announced "MechWarrior" *
*Also not giving up on the dream of making solo Mechwarrior franchise game, hence got the domain "mwomercs.com"
2012 IPG announced it as "MechWarrior Online"
2016 "MechWarrior 5 Mercenaries" announced by PGI as that solo Mechwarrior franchise game.
So yes, please provide a link to this forgotten detail, many thanks.


To be fair and accurate it was a subtitle. You also led out "A thinking man's shooter".
Once that was dropped along with IGP the subtitle (around HBS's announcement) became "A Battletech Game".
Now it is Mechwarrior Online Solaris 7... in the hopes of building up E sports. But the game lacks any good feeling combat to be worth spectacting.

Left...not led.

#165 HammerMaster

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 06:40 PM

E-sports.
Biggest non starter since...
Transverse.

#166 NocturnalBeast

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 07:35 PM

View PostDee Eight, on 21 January 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:


There's also PGI"s crap code and its inability to deal with large missile volleys, particle cannons, or lag properly. Four SRM6 launchers fired as a group should not register less damage on the target than firing them in a chain...


Input lag is a big problem too, using Fast Sync instead of VSync and turning post processing to off makes it much easier to aim more reliably.

#167 Koniving

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 08:50 PM

View PostAkillius, on 21 January 2019 - 06:12 PM, said:

Okay I never noticed that.
[img]http://web.archive.org/web/20160305045816im_/https://static.mwomercs.com/img/theme/mainMenuLogo.png[/img]
Here's a link to the archived webpage from 2016.
https://web.archive....//mwomercs.com/

Seems a obvious, but some GMs had house rules and allow droidwarriors to leave/escape/eject their mech. Before MW RPG; they just used infantry rules for them, except weaponless. I only knew of a couple times they escaped and only because of a previous campaign where they had a mech or enough cbills to make it worthwhile to do or (a few times) to argue over, and one GM insisted on a skill going down either piloting or gunnery. And it was like that in BattleTech II for a couple years as well.

And yes by 1986/87 I also bought a copy of this book when I could, the cover art with a Mech's cockpit seen in colour with the fighter plane like instruments was memorable.
http://www.sarna.net...le_Playing_Game


Indeed from battledroids to the Battletech battlemech manual 2018 to The mechwarrior rpg first edition
The game says that these rules are here to give you a structured experience but the most important thing is to have fun, as such rules could be added or dropped in the name of fun.

Bt has always been open to custom rules to enhance the experience. A huge part of the battle technology mag was to bring in popular custom rules... Combat efficiency factor....became Battle Value. EXTREME RANGE....became less extreme range with a tweak. Sniper shot..... became a pilot skill of a different name that was more passive (instead of triple to four times range, but one weapon and could not move in the previous turn and declare you are lining up a shot on an unspecified target and if you were hit you had to do a piloting roll to keep your focus....you now simply have double range on all weapons.) The list goes on.

Edited by Koniving, 21 January 2019 - 08:50 PM.


#168 Ery

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 02:37 AM

View PostJohn McHobo, on 19 January 2019 - 09:34 PM, said:


But nerfs to the weapon system would hit everyone, so the Piranha would still be best at it while an entire weapon family becomes unviable for everyone else. If you nerf MGs you eliminate even the slightest viability of builds that utilize maybe two or three of them. The only reason why we see MGs on lights was their buff, so that e.g. using the Pirate´s Bane´s two ballistic slots became an option.

Decent weapons are not the problem, but releasing a mech that can field twelve of them is.


In my opinion the best way would be to give ghost heat to MGs if it's more than 3 or 4. With 6-8 you could still fire permanently if you do not fire any other weapons. But 12 MGs at once can definitely only be fired for a very limited time

Edited by Ery, 22 January 2019 - 02:44 AM.


#169 Jack Shayu Walker

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 03:52 AM

View Postdario03, on 21 January 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:


Have you read the comments in *insert light here* are op threads over the years? Its very common for people to say a mech is op just because they think it is to good for its weight. Things like "to good for a light", "to strong for 20t", "lights shouldn't be able to fight bigger mechs" etc, etc. That has been around forever. I didn't just randomly make my sig be #LightLivesMatter, it is there because some feel like the game should simply be bigger is better and I disagree since most of the game is one mech per player.
At the end of the day the mech wasn't the best mech in the game, so there are other mechs more deserving of nerfs.


I mean, point taken. I guess we'd have to dispute what constitutes a significant portion.

To be honest with you, most of the people who say things like that, don't understand why they are saying that. I'm willing to bet you they can't articulate why they don't like that they were killed so easily by something that is so much smaller and without some more nuanced rationale they just demand that lights should be ****.

In reality, mechs that can pick where and when fights happen should pay an opportunity cost in how much of a threat they pose. That's the rational side of the argument these people are making, and that's the one I'm making. The piranha is a problem because it can shred an assault like its another assault, but then it wants to have its cake and eat it too by having all of the positioning power 130+ KPH mechs are blessed with.

At the end of the day the mech doesn't have to be the best mech in the game to deserve a nerf. It deserves a nerf if its single handedly zonking out the balance of the game, which it is. And for the record what mech do you think is the best mech in the game?

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 22 January 2019 - 03:53 AM.


#170 Jack Shayu Walker

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 04:00 AM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 21 January 2019 - 08:42 AM, said:



I'm old, about mech Grand dad age and grumpy as hell.

But I don't have problems killing pirahana's and other lights except for the Commando in my assault mechs.

I use direct fire and adjust my lead to compensate for lag shield due to my Australian 3rd world internet connection.


When I play the pirhana I sure ain't OP, in fact its the opposite.

I find it much easier to kill a Pirhana in an assault mech than I do killing an assault mech in a Pirhana.

As I said I use direct fire as waiting for a lock takes too long.
I use Front loaded weapons - ballistics and ppc, or I use short duration weapons - pulse lasers.

I hit the Pirhana once and it either dies or it tries to run away after losing a leg, arm or side torso.

Fish taste guid


That's good for you Homer, doesn't really impact my opinion that PGI is taking sloppy steps in the vaguely right direction.

I don't want the Piranha nerfed because I'm salty about what it did to me and because I don't know how to deal with it. I don't pilot mechs that are preferred piranha food anyway.

I want it nerfed because it's high skill ceiling can make effectively piloted piranha's unreasonably difficult to deal with for average slow moving PUGs.

Classic cSPL Cheetah was just about right for reasonable effectiveness.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 22 January 2019 - 04:01 AM.


#171 Jack Shayu Walker

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 04:10 AM

View PostBush Hopper, on 21 January 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

Light mechs:
Funny that people accept that there are often 5-6 assaults per team and a couple of heavies and on the other hand just 1-2 lights, sometimes even 0. Is this "balanced"? After all people gravitate to the most powerful stuff in a pvp online game.

But of course the 35t mechs aren't buffed. And with buffs I mean a boost in the agility department. Oh no, someone could miss that giant barn doors the 35t mechs have become after volumetric re-sizing. To add insult to injury: quite a few medium mechs like the Assassin are more agile (while having better armour and structure) than the 35tonners.

As for the PIR nerfs, the people who gloat in this thread about it will still be easily killed by the PIRs. Why you ask? Simply because the reduced leg structure is only a problem if your enemy can aim (you know, that thing you call "lag shield" despite not realizing your laz0rs spread over the whole mech) and/or has situational awareness. So, sorry dudes, they are still deadly for you.

As Dario said, at the end of the day you will see only heavies and assaults because speed and agility can't compensate (which happens already) the DPS/alpha strikes flying around. Bigger in this game is already in most cases better. There goes the variety and different gameplay.


That's not exactly it, people gravitate towards the stuff in which it is easiest to do well, and lights inherently have a higher skill floor. This is not the same thing as their peak effectiveness being lower. It's this peak effectiveness and skill ceiling people are concerned with keeping in check.

The key problem is that when piloted perfectly people also want all mech weight classes to perform the same, yeah? the trouble with that is that by their nature, when piloted terribly or mediocre, lights suck. What's more they have their own unique skill set and nobody wants to eat dirt until they get good. There's really no incentive to play lights in this game as a result, unless of course you just like the play-style (...and those are the people that play them.)

As for the nerfed leg structure, its a sloppy way by PGI to reduce threat projection. Not great, but technically it does reduce their threat projection, because it will impact how much impact one good shot will have on the piranha.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 22 January 2019 - 04:15 AM.


#172 Jack Shayu Walker

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 04:21 AM

View Postdr3dnought, on 21 January 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

The difference between a 45 tonner and a 20 tonner is as huge as the difference between a 45 tonner and a 100 tonner. So yes, you are wrong.

I didn't 'claim to have woes as a current light pilot that no-one else could understand' at all. I said YOU don't understand, which is obvious. Now since you're not arguing in good faith I'm not interested in discussing with you further.


Oh come on man, good faith... "a sincere intention to be fair, open, and honest..."

sincere...
fair...
open...
honest...

Which of these am I sorely failing to do? It is not my intention to be a ****. All I'm telling you is that saying that someone has no idea what they are taking about because they don't actively play lights at this time is unreasonable.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 22 January 2019 - 04:43 AM.


#173 dario03

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 06:05 AM

View PostJack Shayu Walker, on 22 January 2019 - 03:52 AM, said:


I mean, point taken. I guess we'd have to dispute what constitutes a significant portion.

To be honest with you, most of the people who say things like that, don't understand why they are saying that. I'm willing to bet you they can't articulate why they don't like that they were killed so easily by something that is so much smaller and without some more nuanced rationale they just demand that lights should be ****.

Sure we would have to dispute that but they are out there. There are of course others who don't think like that. Been seeing it more in the more recent Piranha threads, in those there are a bunch of people calling the mech op but also a bunch pointing out how it isn't or asking for proof.

Quote

In reality, mechs that can pick where and when fights happen should pay an opportunity cost in how much of a threat they pose. That's the rational side of the argument these people are making, and that's the one I'm making. The piranha is a problem because it can shred an assault like its another assault, but then it wants to have its cake and eat it too by having all of the positioning power 130+ KPH mechs are blessed with.

Thing is the Piranha already pays that tax. It has speed and firepower at the cost of everything else, like how an assault gives up speed to have everything else. A Piranha can pick its engagements but at any given time it can get one shot or at least half its mech blown away. And its fairly common since no range means you have to get super close, well within hgr or streak range.

Quote

At the end of the day the mech doesn't have to be the best mech in the game to deserve a nerf. It deserves a nerf if its single handedly zonking out the balance of the game, which it is. And for the record what mech do you think is the best mech in the game?

A mech doesn't have to be the best to be nerfed, but the better ones should be first in line to be nerfed. And it isn't "single handedly zonking out the balance of the game", it would have to be the best in the game or actually broken to do that. It is neither of those. Again, it has a couple of very good attributes balanced out by plenty of bad.

And I don't have a single best mech in the game, depends on the mode and if solo/group/comp. But since most seem to be talking about solo QP in these threads I would just say any of the good assault ballistic boats are at least better than a Piranha. Mad Cat MKII, Fafnir, Sleipnir being the ones I've ran the most lately, though others are good too.

Edited by dario03, 22 January 2019 - 06:08 AM.


#174 Weeny Machine

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 06:06 AM

View PostJack Shayu Walker, on 22 January 2019 - 03:52 AM, said:


In reality, mechs that can pick where and when fights happen [snip]



In theory yes, but in reality it is only occasionally the case mostly thanks to the map design. The other reason which counters lights is simply sticking together.

What people forget is that lights give up most of these factors:
* alpha strike capability
* range
* structure
* armour
* heat disipation

Even a PIR is fragile (most people use lasers and/or their aim isn't nowhere as good as they think and that's why you read stuff like "immortal lag armour") and has to get in range, in case of the PIR it also needs facetime.


The whole problem in MWO is actually a psychological one: people get nuts when they get killed by a light mech in their über heavy or assault monster machine despite they often made grievious mistakes beforehand. I cannot count how often I had several seconds on an assaults back before he even reacted. (Some of those names I also see whining on the board about lights - and not just PIRs). I mean, how bad has your situational awareness to be to allow that?

Now add, that the PIR doesn't suck like most lights and cannot be ignored by the fatties for an extended period of time and you know why the crying starts. Actually the other lights should be slightly buffed to be more dangerous or do you round a corner and see a Warhammer and say "Oh great, a free kill?".

Especially the 35t mechs are easy to hit and need some buffs in the agility department,

Edited by Bush Hopper, 22 January 2019 - 06:12 AM.


#175 NocturnalBeast

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 08:55 AM

View PostBush Hopper, on 22 January 2019 - 06:06 AM, said:


In theory yes, but in reality it is only occasionally the case mostly thanks to the map design. The other reason which counters lights is simply sticking together.

What people forget is that lights give up most of these factors:
* alpha strike capability
* range
* structure
* armour
* heat disipation

Even a PIR is fragile (most people use lasers and/or their aim isn't nowhere as good as they think and that's why you read stuff like "immortal lag armour") and has to get in range, in case of the PIR it also needs facetime.


The whole problem in MWO is actually a psychological one: people get nuts when they get killed by a light mech in their über heavy or assault monster machine despite they often made grievious mistakes beforehand. I cannot count how often I had several seconds on an assaults back before he even reacted. (Some of those names I also see whining on the board about lights - and not just PIRs). I mean, how bad has your situational awareness to be to allow that?

Now add, that the PIR doesn't suck like most lights and cannot be ignored by the fatties for an extended period of time and you know why the crying starts. Actually the other lights should be slightly buffed to be more dangerous or do you round a corner and see a Warhammer and say "Oh great, a free kill?".

Especially the 35t mechs are easy to hit and need some buffs in the agility department,


The problem with lights is that people don't want to play them the way they are intended to be played. Too many people just want a small, I insanely maneuverable MECH that is able to tank better than an Assault and has as much firepower as a Medium or Heavy and they will cry if they can't have their cake and eat it too. Lights in BATTLETECH are for anti-infantry, scouting, marking targets, capturing objectives and hit and run harrassing, and since MECHWARRIOR is based on BATTLETECH, this is what light MECHS do best. Exploiting the fact that there are no longer knockdowns or any significant collision damage in MWO and just staying around the legs of bigger MECHS so you can be underneath the range of their arm or torso mounted weapons is just as toxic as the "lurmtards" and "MECHdads" that people always complain about. A light pilot who focuses on evasion and hit and run tactics is far more skilled than the "leghumpers".

#176 Akillius

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 09:14 AM

View PostKoniving, on 21 January 2019 - 08:50 PM, said:

Indeed from battledroids to the Battletech battlemech manual 2018 to The mechwarrior rpg first edition
The game says that these rules are here to give you a structured experience but the most important thing is to have fun, as such rules could be added or dropped in the name of fun.

Bt has always been open to custom rules to enhance the experience. A huge part of the battle technology mag was to bring in popular custom rules... Combat efficiency factor....became Battle Value. EXTREME RANGE....became less extreme range with a tweak. Sniper shot..... became a pilot skill of a different name that was more passive (instead of triple to four times range, but one weapon and could not move in the previous turn and declare you are lining up a shot on an unspecified target and if you were hit you had to do a piloting roll to keep your focus....you now simply have double range on all weapons.) The list goes on.

Yup and TT stopped being fun in 1990s, at least for me and for approximately 95% of the people I gamed with, most of the nearly 2 dozen started with battledroids and some of them never forgot those early years of fan-made campaigns and discussions of what's within the rules, the jokes, the laughs, fleeting frustration from random die roll, several of us walking 2 kilometers in snow once a month to one friends house, and the bowls of chips & kpopcorn, and at one home a couple plates of small finger sandwiches and crackers with pate + cheeses was always nearby which we all made light fun of at school but we always left empty plates. Spending a couple hours getting the sheets ready for an hour long game, and the discussions and vetting of each others salvage sheets to trade or sell parts before the match. And then using DnD lead figurines on photocopied hex grid paper with hand drawn rivers, forests, and other features, with the occasional need to find/borrow a pencil or pencil sharpener and the smell of pencil shavings during the game as things progressed. And for those who's mechs went down early they stayed or watched TV or played Atari, Intellivision, Sega Master system, NES, TG16, read magazines like white dwarf or whatever was available at the home we gathered at for a few hours.

And for those too young to know, the 1980's was an era of frying left over spaghetti/potatoes+onions/etc, of making peanut brittle, or firing up fondue pots, or even home made pizza just for snacks, like putting slices of bread with cheese whiz on top in the oven on broil and watching to remove as bubbles turned brown but not black, though I preferred doing that with half slice of bread with cheese with bacon on top each... And back then everyone threw out cold coffee/tea because microwaves were expensive and uncommon, mobile phones were rare and owned only by a few usually business owners that liked frequent disconnections and the sound of static with the occasional interruption by CB chatter, and phoning someone on a party line risked getting interrupted or picked up by some other household, and Donkey Kong Jr., Joust, PacMan, and Tron were some of the most popular arcade video games. And we'd catch a bus or walk before taking a taxi and hitchhiking was considered risky but okay and everyone seem to do that at least once to get to play a game of TT.
Basically we spent time to save money back then.


Today we spend money to save time.
The world is very different where microwaves are nearly as cheap and common as toasters and cell phones are as common as dirt and there's a thing called the World Wide Internet...
MWO is a modern take on what TT offered back in the day, with the busy doing a million things day to day lives where every minute counts towards getting something done with hectic job schedules, MWO offers a getaway and those who partake will startup their PC grab a their ikea rhubarb concentrate or whatever to make a glass of something tasty (or maybe a glass of something with more spirit...) and a bag of hickory sticks/chips/popcorn/etc and join in TS/Discord and enjoy debating how MWO works/patched/fixed/etc., or the story someone tells of how his internet went down and why it took so long to get started again (blog it), and when our mech goes down during a match we continue watching some paused YouTube video/get a refill/read the news online/visit the forums/or simply watch the rest of the match. With like-minded good company we get to enjoy and join in with the jokes, the fleeting frustrations, the anxiety of a close match, and share the laughs.


Yeah so maybe I stopped enjoying TT in the 1990s, and yes MWO certainly isn't perfect.
But nearly 34 years later with so many changes I still get to enjoy Battledroids... no matter the name. :P

#177 General Solo

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 09:51 AM

View PostJack Shayu Walker, on 22 January 2019 - 04:00 AM, said:


I want it nerfed because it's high skill ceiling can make effectively piloted piranha's unreasonably difficult to deal with for average slow moving PUGs.



You said it yourself the pirhana has a high skill ceiling

I interpret this to mean you have to be skilled to get the most of it and that a low skill player will not be able to EXPLOIT/ABUSE/USEitsFULLCapabilities it.

If a high skill player beats as you say "average slow moving PUG" isn't that normal irrespective of what mech is piloted.

I suggest that because a highly skilled player and a "average slow moving PUG" are in the same match that skill gap is the problem.

And if match maker worked then the "average slow moving PUG" and high skill player would never meet in the first place and half of the BALANCE threads wouldn't exist.

I seen your stats they are decent, better than mine, so I don't know why its an issue for you.

Nerfing the Pirhana will not help the "average slow moving PUG" when the true problem is skill gap

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 22 January 2019 - 09:58 AM.


#178 DAEDALOS513

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 10:36 AM

Something players have been discussing on steam is adding not only the old maps into the rotation but also the faction play (aka invasion) maps.

Even if you added them as is, without reducing their size, would be a huge boon for the game (I don't even think they are bigger than Polar anyway).

Not sure why this hasn't been done already.

#179 Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 11:33 AM

Welcome in 2019, PGI.

I am writing to you, standing in 2018, from future. The MWO is going to be worst and worst. Reason: 12 players in each team, which provided to outrageous unbalance. Big maps, but badly designed, and players meet always at the same places. No tactic at all. Everything because it's much harder to organize 12 players instead of 8.

Please, consider this post, when you finally reach 2019.

#180 tee5

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 11:57 AM

Anyone else having problem with getting Data from the leaderboards?

I get error-codes.
Unable to retrieve data from the leaderboard.





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