74 replies to this topic

[Abisha]

I don't know it feels like the DPS is to high in this game mechs die far to quick
they should add 50% more armor to all mechs this is about tatics not who have the first alpha strike

[Acersecomic]

You should add more substance to your post but generaly I agree.
I'd love increased time to kill in the game as a whole (POINTING THAT FOR ANY "hurr durr then bring less firepower" stupid comments).
These are giant hulking machines of war, kind of like warships in WWII. What World of Warships gets so right (despite rng shot displacement) is how ships can take so much damage and there is so much shooting that you actually feel like you're this giant slow warmachine made to deal and take punishment.
Imagine if your assault didn't lose 160 points of armor/structure in 4 seconds, imagine if an assault appearing was like "holy sht, time to strap my manpants on!" My DakkaCat runs x2 U-AC/10 and a U-AC/20. Doubletap for 80 damage,
doubletap in 3 seconds for another 80. Boom, dead fully quirked+skilled Atlas.

Anyone gets what I'm trying to say?
I feel like these fights should feel groundshaking.

[Antares102]

I agree CP-S has way too much DPS with 4xLBX10.
Aside from that the TTK has already been increased dramatically with all the nerfs and survival skil tree addition.

Anyway we had this disussion so many times already.
You are the master of your own TTK.
If you walk around the corner into a 5 mech fireling line even tripling your armour will not save you from death.
"Dying far too quickly" is mostly a pilot error and not the lack of armour on your mech.
The most typical error people complainign about TTK do is not torso twisting. If you dont torso twist then you have 0 (zero) reason to complain about TTK.
Using the right build especially NOT using staring weapons such as RACs.
Instead use frontload builds with which you can shoot and immediatelly get back into cover.

Edited by Antares102, 26 January 2019 - 06:34 AM.

[Luminis]

The biggest factors regarding TTK are positioning and awareness.

Watch a S7 match - the Mechs take a fair bit of time to destroy each other. Now, the same obviously holds true for other game modes. It therefore follows that, if a Mech immediately disintegrates, it's due to being exposed to multiple enemies. Not shrugging off incoming fire from half the enemy team is okay. It is how it should be.

TTK is about as high as it can go without dumbing the game way done by making significant mistakes not matter, in my opinion.

Edited by Luminis, 26 January 2019 - 06:57 AM.

[Horseman]

Abisha, on 26 January 2019 - 04:21 AM, said:

I don't know it feels like the DPS is to high in this game mechs die far to quick
they should add 50% more armor to all mechs this is about tatics not who have the first alpha strike

The mechs already have 100% more armor than they had in tabletop. If you're rolling damage properly and not exposing yourself to execution platoons, you will survive a long time.

[East Indy]

I think TTK in Solo QP, at least, is about right currently. MWO is forever on a knife's edge because it lacks basic control mechanics for massing hardpoints and pulling the trigger (recoil, reactor draw, missile fratricide, etc.) and instead relies on Heat Scale's hard limits.

That said . . . since Solaris is empty and major changes would only affect a tiny part of the player population, why not experiment with double armor, double ammo and 50% lower heat dissipation? It might totally throw off different-class tiers but those aren't exactly foolproof as it is. I'm sure a lot of people saw this coming, but a gladiatorial arena should produce contests like multi-round boxing matches — not pistol duels at three paces.

[Prototelis]

Plz no. The game already has enough foam padding.

Skilled players are going to kill you just as easily. You're only creating a situation where catching a strong player off guard becomes pointless.

[Ken Harkin]

Abisha, on 26 January 2019 - 04:21 AM, said:

I don't know it feels like the DPS is to high in this game mechs die far to quick
they should add 50% more armor to all mechs this is about tatics not who have the first alpha strike

The nail that sticks up gets hammered down and the whale that spouts gets harpooned.
Odds are the problem is you are exposing yourself to multiple enemies at once when you are either

A The only good target in sight

B You are fighting enemies who are coordinating fire

C You are piloting a "shoot me first" mech poorly and without support.

I don't care how buff your 100 tonner is if you are being targeted by 3 or more enemies.

[Acersecomic]

TTK is so low we're soo gonna enter Call of Duty territory. A bit of an overstatment yes but I do not want mechs to be squishy as they are now.

[Variant1]

Armor right now is fine. The real problem are those frigin quirks and the damn quirk aka "skill" tree. The quirks ruin the weapon balance and make ttk way too low because of range and cooldown nodes.

[Antares102]

Acersecomic, on 26 January 2019 - 08:07 AM, said:

TTK is so low we're soo gonna enter Call of Duty territory. A bit of an overstatment yes but I do not want mechs to be squishy as they are now.

Well, then please exactly explain in what situation you feel mechs are squishy?
Additionally answer the following questions when you play a mech that feels squishy:
What mech did you have?
What loadout did it have?
What map did you play?
Do you stay with the team or were you solo-yoloing around on the map?
How many enemy mechs were fireing upon you over the time of the game and when you died?
Did you know where in relation to you the enemy mechs were?
And finally how long would you like to last your mech?

I've never played CoD but from what I know about it with a strong weapon you can practically insta-kill enemy players with one shot. Unless you score a cockpit hit there is no such thing as insta-kill of anything heavier than a 55t mech through CT or side torso/XL.

Edited by Antares102, 26 January 2019 - 08:44 AM.

[Acersecomic]

Antares102, on 26 January 2019 - 08:41 AM, said:

Well, then please exactly explain in what situation you feel mechs are squishy?
Additionally answer the following questions when you play a mech that feels squishy:
What mech did you have?
What loadout did it have?
What map did you play?
Do you stay with the team or were you solo-yoloing around on the map?
How many enemy mechs were fireing upon you over the time of the game and when you died?
Did you know where in relation to you the enemy mechs were?
And finally how long would you like to last your mech?

I've never played CoD but from what I know about it with a strong weapon you can practically insta-kill enemy players with one shot. Unless you score a cockpit hit there is no such thing as insta-kill of anything heavier than a 55t mech through CT or side torso/XL.

Let me quote myself.
"Imagine if your assault didn't lose 160 points of armor/structure in 4 seconds, imagine if an assault appearing was like "holy sht, time to strap my manpants on!" My DakkaCat runs x2 U-AC/10 and a U-AC/20. Doubletap for 80 damage, 
doubletap in 3 seconds for another 80. Boom, dead fully quirked+skilled Atlas."

Yes it is the MadCat-B we are talking about here but come on. Matches last less than 5 minutes! 5 minutes is how long it takes to start another match for gods sake! If that is not indicative of how fast the killing goes in this game, I don't know what is. Oh yeah... matches mothballing and most of them being decided the moment one team loses 2-3 mechs because it is that much DPS.

Edited by Acersecomic, 26 January 2019 - 09:05 AM.

[LTC Kilgore]

Imagine how low ttk would be if hit reg worked properly all the time. Imagine how balance could be achieved if the telemetry used by PGI to balance weapons was accurate and not tainted by poor hit reg (and poor stat tracking in general, look on your stat pages and I'm sure you can find glaring errors, yet PGI is using that info for balance decisions)... imagine if PGI actually cared or had the ability to fix the problems with this game, instead of just pushing mechpacks and diverting all resources to MW5...

[Prototelis]

If you're getting melted in 4-5 seconds its because you're making bad decisions.

You're either biting off more than you can chew, or you're exposing yourself to focus fire.

[Kroete]

Horseman, on 26 January 2019 - 07:04 AM, said:

The mechs already have 100% more armor than they had in tabletop. If you're rolling damage properly and not exposing yourself to execution platoons, you will survive a long time.

Thats not correct, they have less armor, because most weapons have less then 5 seconds cooldown against the 10 seconds cooldown for all weapons in tabletop.
And dont miss the spread in tabletop, 4-5 times more hits to remove a centertorso because random hit locations, thats another 4-5 times more armor.
If you go after tabletop, mwo would need atleast 5-6 times the armor not only 2 times.

Edited by Kroete, 26 January 2019 - 09:41 AM.

[Abisha]

it's wrong you can see that most matches ends with 2/12 4/12 this is do to massive dps that's delivered at this moment
they can add multiplier to Quickmatch like 2x armor or 1.5 armor to balance out the match
i think a match should be longer then 4 mins this is how long most matches takes

i seen direwolfs die in less then 7 seconds it's not the fault of the mechwarrior but fault of the game designers
to have so hugh unbalanced pingpoint damage would 2x help a bit consider that mech warrior can go back for cover in 14 seconds but can't afford a mistake like that again.

[Y E O N N E]

Less DPS doesn't magically make it more tactical. Being good at positioning, timing, and damage mitigation does.

Also, the CP-S has no more DPS with quad LB10-X than any other 'Mech with quad LB10-X.

[Abisha]

Y E O N N E, on 26 January 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

Less DPS doesn't magically make it more tactical. Being good at positioning, timing, and damage mitigation does.

it is when you play with a team of 12 man.
it means you can share more armor and most have more focused fire to bring down a mech so yea more tatical

[Antares102]

Acersecomic, on 26 January 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

Let me quote myself.
"Imagine if your assault didn't lose 160 points of armor/structure in 4 seconds, imagine if an assault appearing was like "holy sht, time to strap my manpants on!" My DakkaCat runs x2 U-AC/10 and a U-AC/20. Doubletap for 80 damage,
doubletap in 3 seconds for another 80. Boom, dead fully quirked+skilled Atlas."

Ok so you are more or less critizising the cooldown and high alpha.
But what would be the right values in your opinion?

Acersecomic, on 26 January 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

Matches last less than 5 minutes! 5 minutes is how long it takes to start another match for gods sake! If that is not indicative of how fast the killing goes in this game

This is something I totally agree.
The loading time to play time ratio is atrocious in this game.
However there will be no solution to this since nobody wants respawn which could improve this ratio.
And NO faction play with 4 mechs is no respawn.

[Y E O N N E]

Abisha, on 26 January 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

it is when you play with a team of 12 man.
it means you can share more armor and most have more focused fire to bring down a mech so yea more tatical

No it isn't. If you are a 12-man and not already focusing fire, you are an incompetent 12-man.

More armor/less DPS is really less tactical, because it just encourages more death balling since sending a unit out to catch a flank is ineffective. Having less options is less tactical, not more.

Edited by Y E O N N E, 26 January 2019 - 09:53 AM.