84 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

Koniving, on 21 February 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

The trouble is part of the reason it isn't having one to start is to avoid some of the visual obscenities of MWO. As such one should expect that with doing that will come a host of manual rework to existing models or copy/pasting retexturing mwo pieces into mw5. MW5 is using new textures and possibly reworked texture maps.

Well I've started the "Socket" Program almost 2 years ago, nobody did care.
Its supposed to be an eye-candy hardpoint system (similar to MWLL)

The idea behind is to model only the connector between Mech and weapon(matrix) - this socket can take a couple of weapons. but it looks the same on every mech.

For example a large ballistic socket could fit into the Hunchbacks right, Shadow Hawks left and Banshee hip.

The next step is to model the combinations... say 1-4 AC2s 1-3 AC5s, 1-2 UAC5s, 1 AC 10....(but each combination is only modeled one) - no matter the combination it looks the same on Banshee, Shadow Hawk and Hunchback.

This allows visible fidelity with an manageable workload. Also helps to keep the size of the project small.
The wiring (coding) could be more interesting -> Hardpoint sizes, and switchable weapons types (half omni pods of MekTek come in mind)

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

MW5 is starting to sound like "TrialMech' Warrior 5

[Koniving]

Napoleon_Blownapart, on 23 February 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

MW5 is starting to sound like "TrialMech' Warrior 5

Think MechAssault, or Battletech campaign rules but instead of the uncommonly known softpoint system

Spoiler

(if you swap X with something similar in the X category, such as SRM-6 with MRM 10 or LRM-10 then the time, difficulty and cost of doing so is cut in half. (NOTE: this is not a completely accurate example as I'm not gonna go looking it up right now)

you are instead going in with the "newer" Solaris 7 playing cards or the Mechwarrior Tactics playing cards. Since I can't find pictures of them I'm using the Tactics and CCG cards.


So you got your pilot, your mech, and then your weapon brand name cards.

(This view isn't showing their stats.)

Each weapon variant has traits by brand name and by specific variant as well. In Solaris 7's "newer" game this makes them far more diverse than before... but that one's rules suck because basically the system is cut down to hit points on the 'basic play' and the more advanced play...is still nothing like Battletech.

Spoiler

So at first glance its a cool concept but it wasn't followed through as instead of adding to Battletech's system but in a smaller time scale like the original Solaris 7 did, the newer one basically threw all the BT tabletop rules out in favor of something more like "you can take 7 hits." and you recover 1 per new turn....healing? You...heal...in a Battletech game...while fighting...? If I physically had it I'd throw it.

Anyway, long story short, thank god there are mods.
Otherwise it'd be like Skyrim, without mods.

The bucket thing in my opinion should have been fixed in a way that'd let you do but have reactions and a small random interval of seconds before they take it off (and repeatedly doing it on the same day or same week should turn them hostile).

Edited by Koniving, 23 February 2019 - 11:02 AM.

[TheLuc]

The mechlab PGI propose means that I wont be able to keep my beloved TDR-5S if I want the latest tech, also getting rid of those fragile XL engines wont be possible. Players want to run what they like for the most part, a system that is restrictive will translate in lower sales.

[MechaBattler]

I'd be more concerned with bad reviews. I saw a few bad reviews for HBS Battletech because of the mechlab restrictions.Which weren't that restrictive, so much as too few options.

[Karl Streiger]

I think the important question is, if the MechLab is restrictive only for the campaign and more open for coop or quick play games.

In the campaign it hast to be ultra restrictive - ultra as in you play all the missions in one maximum 2 Mechs.
So you need tho choose your missions wisley

It's a complete different game exp. I did so in MW3 as soon as I got the Thor and in MW4 vengeance until the city missions (or special needs) the Uziel. Including non or miniscule changes on the weapons (and running the Thor with only 4 rounds for the LBX was very interesting, too

[TheLuc]

Karl, I really don't share your point of view in the matter as restrictions can be self imposed. Hard mode can be easily provided with the game economy.

Coop only in quick play would be real bad.

Bad reviews, I expect them as how MWO was and is handled

[Smutty]

People in here really want TT style customisation? TT repair/rearm/custom rules are atrocious. This is not an opinion. They're written as if intentionally designed to shoo players away from the game. Naturally nobody actually uses them and any competent DM/player homebrews their own. As far as the limited customisation goes in MWV, it's just easier and faster to set it up this way. PGI doesn't have to spend excess time modelling hardpoints (or porting them over for that matter) and they won't have to worry about potentially highly-optimised builds (or at least as optimised as you can get with Introtech and locked engines) wrecking the AI which, as they have stated, does not intentionally twist incoming damage. If every build is suboptimal by being stock (or close to it) then there's less a chance players will steamroller through combat with a custom build.

However, part of the greatest attraction to the MW series of games is the ability to push a Mech to its customisable limits. This has been a staple of the most popular MW games and to see it casually tossed aside in favour of... well, arbitrary choice, it seems, is kind of depressing. Equipment, such as heatsinks and LosTech gear, has been touted as being interchangeable, but the lack of weapon customisation can only serve to truncate enjoyment for those of us who don't want to run stock builds.

Additionally, mods will inevitably take care of anything players deem unnecessary or incorrectly implemented. I wouldn't really worry too much about customisation options in the face of the game's modability.

TL;DR: it's a dumb decision but might be a necessary one to keep the game on schedule and mods will fix it

[Karl Streiger]

The Mayor of Smuttington, on 11 March 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

However, part of the greatest attraction to the MW series of games is the ability to push a Mech to its customisable limits.

Exactly its limits.... if you take a Zeus and add a AC 20 into left torso, 2 SRM 6 into the right and several laser into the arms - is it still a Zeus or a Charger?
When you can arm the Zeus as you can arm the Charger were is the difference.... a non restrictive lab only needs 1 mech per weight bracket - and because we will talking about TT Construcion rules again - you can right out drop the 20,40,60 and 80t class because those are always not as efficient as the adjacent weights.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I think there can be a happy medium between completely restrictive modifications such as repair and rearm only like MW5 will seem to be and fully unrestricted modifications like MechWarrior 2 and 3. Something that allows a mech's unique properties to shine through, but still allows for some personal customization.

I think HBS has found a pretty solid medium with their BattleTech, but even their system can promote things like Large Laser boats and some other exploits of the build system (if we are trying to stay close to stock intent anyway).

Regardless, some modification potential would probably appease many of the players of the older titles. Having no modifications at all is probably a bit too off-putting.

Most likely there will be a solid modding community around the game shortly after launch so there is a chance that a mod to allow more customization will be available. This should hopefully appease those who were looking forward to that aspect in the game.

[Koniving]

Modding!!!!

Its easier to mod away from restrictive systems than to mod into them.

Its also easier to make a game with them, as it means a boat-ton less modeling work.... and anyone wanting to insist on unrestricted systems can either take what's given for the 3D modeling work, or start importing MWO models into MW5 to get that "freedom"...and the atrocious stuff that comes with it.

(Many of the models have been redone, even if PGI says they haven't rescaled them again, the size of certain mechs compared to humans shows they clearly did, or they upped the size of people.)

[JediPanther]

So where are the youtube videos of mw5's mech lab and mods in action? You'd thing their marketing intern would realize showing parts of the game people want to see would entice them to order it or put it on their must buy list. I'm not ordering the game until I see the videos of mods,mech lab, mech customization and a decent (one) mission play through.

[MeiSooHaityu]

JediPanther, on 12 March 2019 - 02:44 PM, said:

So where are the youtube videos of mw5's mech lab and mods in action? You'd thing their marketing intern would realize showing parts of the game people want to see would entice them to order it or put it on their must buy list. I'm not ordering the game until I see the videos of mods,mech lab, mech customization and a decent (one) mission play through.

I would also like to see the Mechlab in action as well. I am guessing that it is still a work-in-progress and they just aren't ready to show it yet.

As for a mission play through, I think the mission demoed at MechCon is probably a pretty solid representation on what to expect. If you haven't seen it, I have posted it below...

I'd also keep in mind that this would probably be considered Alpha gameplay and probably subject to change.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 13 March 2019 - 06:14 AM.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

Only reason I bought MW5 is because the cost of the MC package I wanted to buy was the same cost as the preorder for the same amount of MC. Plus I got the Marauder II preorder for free.

Everything I have heard about MW5 makes me feel like I'd play it for one day and then let it sit there on my steam account. Weapon specific hardpoints sound horrible. Like it has been mentioned earlier, it means you are constantly chasing the best tech, instead of playing the mechs you love and making them the best.

Edited by Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-, 13 March 2019 - 06:22 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

If it's in the BattleTech universe, I will spend a lot of time with it. I have about 370 hours in HBS's BattleTech, and that is exclusively single player. I am sure I will spend a lot of time with MW5:Mercs regardless of the Mechlab implemented.

[Karl Streiger]

This discussion has similarities with the first MWO topics.
I can remember the topic are 6 Catapults and 2 Jenners equal to 8 Atlas when it comes to match making. Based on a Dev Blog that each Mech should be able to be a match for any other Mech thanks to role warfare.

You know the pity is, I was not aware enough to rationalise the mocking tone of Garth Erlam, it seems that those and other discussions were conpletely ignored.

So for MW5 - the mechlab solution might become the same thing as role warfare in MWO. It exists but nobody is satisfied

[Snakesh1t]

A few AMA's ago they said that they wanted to release it as is, and either will help modders get a true mechlab in or release it. I really wish we had a dedicated forum where we could pass along ideas for it (assuming of course that the devs would read some of them every now and then.)

[MeiSooHaityu]

Snakesh1t, on 14 March 2019 - 07:29 AM, said:

A few AMA's ago they said that they wanted to release it as is, and either will help modders get a true mechlab in or release it. I really wish we had a dedicated forum where we could pass along ideas for it (assuming of course that the devs would read some of them every now and then.)

I wish there was a dedicated MechWarrior 5:Mercs forum as well. We are supposed to be roughly 6 months out from the game's launch, so it seems like this would be a good time to get one going.

[MechaBattler]

I mean on the one hand it makes getting certain variants more valuable and rewarding. On the other you're stuck with what you got for a while. Even the salvage isn't going to really change up gameplay unless you get a new mech from salvage or purchase. Swapping one AC5 for another AC5 that is slightly better is NOT exciting gameplay. That carrot and stick stuff doesn't work on me. >.<

Edited by MechaBattler, 14 March 2019 - 12:00 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

MechaBattler, on 14 March 2019 - 11:58 AM, said:

I mean on the one hand it makes getting certain variants more valuable and rewarding. On the other you're stuck with what you got for a while. Even the salvage isn't going to really change up gameplay unless you get a new mech from salvage or purchase. Swapping one AC5 for another AC5 that is slightly better is NOT exciting gameplay. That carrot and stick stuff doesn't work on me. &gt;.&lt;

Not?
Its not different to all those Battlefield Clones a M4A1 is not much different to a M16A3 or AK and still people prefer on or the other. For me it's the M16A3 for the Burst and the G3 of nostalgia interims of AC5a clearly GM Whirlwind or Armstrong. But this will be mod-terrain.
Unfortunately like BattleTech (and I'm backer of the first hour) not from me - don't see a new rig within the next half year for me.