37 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

and actually fix it ? Is it going to take dozens/hundreds of us running stealth mechs and using the exploit for them to admit its actually there and fix it, as happened with multiple targetting computers and the RAC Macro ? Will it require videos from streamers showing everyone on youtube ? I just had another match while in a match with violent blue during her stream. I could NOT lock a nova while a stealth commando was near me.

[Verilligo]

Dee Eight, on 05 February 2019 - 11:52 AM, said:

and actually fix it ? Is it going to take dozens/hundreds of us running stealth mechs and using the exploit for them to admit its actually there and fix it, as happened with multiple targetting computers and the RAC Macro ? Will it require videos from streamers showing everyone on youtube ? I just had another match while in a match with violent blue during her stream. I could NOT lock a nova while a stealth commando was near me.

Reproduce it in a private server, make a video, submit it. Last time this came up, Chris did a test with some guys that made the claim and the results were that they couldn't reproduce the behavior. I'm not saying this isn't a thing, but you gotta be able to reproduce it reliably before a fix can be made, otherwise it gets booted down the priority list because it could be a wild goose chase.

[RickySpanish]

Is this an exploit, or people airing dirty laundry and outrage now that the RAC fix was implemented while not understanding game mechanics?

[Jackal Noble]

Verilligo, on 05 February 2019 - 11:58 AM, said:

Reproduce it in a private server, make a video, submit it. Last time this came up, Chris did a test with some guys that made the claim and the results were that they couldn't reproduce the behavior. I'm not saying this isn't a thing, but you gotta be able to reproduce it reliably before a fix can be made, otherwise it gets booted down the priority list because it could be a wild goose chase.

It is absolutely a thing; likely a case of the necessary ECM bleeding over into stealth mechanics. Flipside, a stealth mech near friendlies provides the ECM bubble. IDK maybe that's the way stealth armor is supposed to function, but it is absolutely how it works in the game.

[Chris Lowrey]

Verilligo, on 05 February 2019 - 11:58 AM, said:

Reproduce it in a private server, make a video, submit it. Last time this came up, Chris did a test with some guys that made the claim and the results were that they couldn't reproduce the behavior. I'm not saying this isn't a thing, but you gotta be able to reproduce it reliably before a fix can be made, otherwise it gets booted down the priority list because it could be a wild goose chase.

For reference, this post explains the current implementation of Stealth armor. Deeper in the thread will have the posts that we tested this and have not yet found anything that deviates from the current design of the system.

Just to reiterate, Stealth Armor is currently treated as a separate piece of equipment that requires an active ECM in order function. But past that, activating stealth armor does not deactivate ECM, and the 'Mech that is actively using stealth would still emit an ECM bubble that would provide standard ECM bubble benefits to team mates, while also condoning standard ECM / Low-signal drawbacks to enemy 'Mechs within the ECM bubble. Active stealth armor makes the equipped 'Mech immune to various "auto detect" methods like BAP / UAV, but is still countered by PPC's / NARC beacons, while TAG allows you to target them (but will not counter the stealth, or the ECM.) Stealth benefits are only given to the 'Mech actively using stealth armor. Anyone else in the ECM bubble would only receive standard ECM benefits.

If anyone has observed behavior outside of the parameters described above or in that thread, feel free to send it to support, but at this time, we have not seen any instance in which it deviates from how it is currently designed to operate.

[R Valentine]

Stealth armor absolutely wrecks lock-on weapons because the ECM bubble is still in effect while simultaneously being uncancellable by UAVs or TAGs. The only way to cancel the ECM on stealth mechs is with PPCs, which almost certainly has to be an ERPPC because they're likely way too close for minimum range on any other PPC. That destroys pretty much all lock-on IS mechs, since IS ERPPCs are both extremely heavy and ridiculously hot. Good luck fitting that in your build.

[Nightbird]

Good thing stealth mechs are laughably bad anyways and contribute little to the team :shrug: balanced

[Grus]

Kiran Yagami, on 05 February 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

Stealth armor absolutely wrecks lock-on weapons because the ECM bubble is still in effect while simultaneously being uncancellable by UAVs or TAGs. The only way to cancel the ECM on stealth mechs is with PPCs, which almost certainly has to be an ERPPC because they're likely way too close for minimum range on any other PPC. That destroys pretty much all lock-on IS mechs, since IS ERPPCs are both extremely heavy and ridiculously hot. Good luck fitting that in your build.

or just learn to use direct fire weapons...

[justcallme A S H]

Chris Lowrey, on 05 February 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

For reference, this post explains the current implementation of Stealth armor. Deeper in the thread will have the posts that we tested this and have not yet found anything that deviates from the current design of the system.

Just to reiterate, Stealth Armor is currently treated as a separate piece of equipment that requires an active ECM in order function. But past that, activating stealth armor does not de-activate ECM, and the 'Mech that is actively using stealth would still emit an ECM bubble that would provide standard ECM bubble benefits to team mates, while also condoning standard ECM / Low-signal drawbacks to enemy 'Mechs within the ECM bubble. Active stealth armor makes the equipped 'Mech immune to various "auto detect" methods like BAP / UAV, but is still countered by PPC's / NARC beacons, while TAG allows you to target them (but will not counter the stealth, or the ECM.) Stealth benefits are only given to the 'Mech actively using stealth armor. Anyone else in the ECM bubble would only receive standard ECM benefits.

If anyone has observed behavior outside of the parameters described above or in that thread, feel free to send it to support, but at this time, we have not seen any instance in which it deviates from how it is currently designed to operate.

That is exactly what I've seen in game. With a Stealth mech hugging me (sub 90m), unable to get a lock on another mech.

So sounds like it is working as stated and not a bug/issue.

[Grus]

Nightbird, on 05 February 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

Good thing stealth mechs are laughably bad anyways and contribute little to the team :shrug: balanced

Narc stealth raven with 3 / 5 lrm boats waiting to rain.

[Jackal Noble]

Nightbird, on 05 February 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

Good thing stealth mechs are laughably bad anyways and contribute little to the team :shrug: balanced

uh ok.

[Nightbird]

Grus, on 05 February 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

Narc stealth raven with 3 / 5 lrm boats waiting to rain.

narc ravens don't need stealth

[Brizna]

Chris Lowrey, on 05 February 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

For reference, this post explains the current implementation of Stealth armor. Deeper in the thread will have the posts that we tested this and have not yet found anything that deviates from the current design of the system.

Just to reiterate, Stealth Armor is currently treated as a separate piece of equipment that requires an active ECM in order function. But past that, activating stealth armor does not de-activate ECM, and the 'Mech that is actively using stealth would still emit an ECM bubble that would provide standard ECM bubble benefits to team mates, while also condoning standard ECM / Low-signal drawbacks to enemy 'Mechs within the ECM bubble. Active stealth armor makes the equipped 'Mech immune to various "auto detect" methods like BAP / UAV, but is still countered by PPC's / NARC beacons, while TAG allows you to target them (but will not counter the stealth, or the ECM.) Stealth benefits are only given to the 'Mech actively using stealth armor. Anyone else in the ECM bubble would only receive standard ECM benefits.

If anyone has observed behavior outside of the parameters described above or in that thread, feel free to send it to support, but at this time, we have not seen any instance in which it deviates from how it is currently designed to operate.

Maybe this implementation is not bugged but it does look a bit OP to me. ECM bubble should be easily counterable or simply don't exist (*). Low signal is a very serious penalty to any mech under its influence, having PPCs or Narc as counters is too situational and unreliable.

EDIT (*) I meant: not exist when STEALTH ARMOUR is activated, sorry.

Edited by Brizna, 05 February 2019 - 12:40 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Chris Lowrey, on 05 February 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

For reference, this post explains the current implementation of Stealth armor. Deeper in the thread will have the posts that we tested this and have not yet found anything that deviates from the current design of the system.

Stealth benefits are only given to the 'Mech actively using stealth armor. Anyone else in the ECM bubble would only receive standard ECM benefits.

If anyone has observed behavior outside of the parameters described above or in that thread, feel free to send it to support, but at this time, we have not seen any instance in which it deviates from how it is currently designed to operate.

EXCEPT...that's now how it is on the live server... and I did report it to support... in August originally. The engagement I just had, the Nova should have had a "low signal" when I was trying to lock it, but with a UAV of mine directly overhead and my ecm on counter mode, it wasn't giving even the low signal. I had ZERO lock possibility as long as the commando was able to hug me. And having shot off 2 of the three SRM2s off the Commando already, with how stealth has now been changed to only add a constant 1.5/sec heat load, that's well within the capabilities for the heat sinks he was carrying to just remain on continuously even on tournaline desert where the match was taking place.

[Grus]

Nightbird, on 05 February 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

narc ravens don't need stealth

Well no but it is a nice added layer of defence. Can tell you how many times I've stood still and watch people just walk on by.

[Nightbird]

Grus, on 05 February 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:

Well no but it is a nice added layer of defence. Can tell you how many times I've stood still and watch people just walk on by.

Yep, that's what makes stealth mechs useless... pilots tend to think they're invisible and get one shot by direct fire weapons.

[Verilligo]

Dee Eight, on 05 February 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

EXCEPT...that's now how it is on the live server... and I did report it to support... in August originally. The engagement I just had, the Nova should have had a "low signal" when I was trying to lock it, but with a UAV of mine directly overhead and my ecm on counter mode, it wasn't giving even the low signal. I had ZERO lock possibility as long as the commando was able to hug me. And having shot off 2 of the three SRM2s off the Commando already, with how stealth has now been changed to only add a constant 1.5/sec heat load, that's well within the capabilities for the heat sinks he was carrying to just remain on continuously even on tournaline desert where the match was taking place.

Let me isolate this... so basically what you're saying is that the UAV and counter-ECM were removing the Low Signal debuff and allowing regular targeting of the Nova... but despite being without the debuff, your missiles were unable to lock onto the Nova?

Edited by Verilligo, 05 February 2019 - 01:49 PM.

[Grus]

Nightbird, on 05 February 2019 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yep, that's what makes stealth mechs useless... pilots tend to think they're invisible and get one shot by direct fire weapons.

Haven't had that happen yet.

[Dee Eight]

Verilligo, on 05 February 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

Let me isolate this... so basically what you're saying is that the UAV and counter-ECM were removing the Low Signal debuff and allowing regular targeting of the Nova... but despite being without the debuff, your missiles were unable to lock onto the Nova?

Correct. You could hit R and get the loadout info of the Nova, but not actually achieve a missile lock. It wouldn't even begin to attempt to lock it.

[BrunoSSace]

People are just grumpy cause their atms cant hit you. Here an idea, bring a ppc or some Lasors?