124 replies to this topic

[R E X I OS]

Angel of Annihilation, on 07 February 2019 - 11:18 AM, said:

• Hotter Weapons
  
• Longer Beam duration
  
• Longer cooldown
  
• Hotter Weapons = higher heat sink requirement
  
• Hotter weapons = worse performance in terms of utilizing the limited heat capacity, ie less capability to fire prior to reaching maximum heat threshold.
  
• Longer Beam Duration and Cooldown = Longer face time requirement = more damage taken before the mech can retreat to cover.
  
• Longer Beam duration tends to be equal to less concentrated damage.
  
• Higher heat mean more time spent hiding and cooling, less time fighting
  
• Clan mech agility stats on average lower than IS mech agility
  
• Fixed equipment limiting the capability on many Clan mechs
  
• UACs fire more shots which equal more damage spread.
  
• No pinpoint ACs.
  
• Clan LRMs stream out, IS LRMs volley
  
• Clan SRMs have more significantly more spread.
  
• Limited Quirks on Clan mechs
  
• Lower average durability with Clan mechs (due to quirks)
  
• Lower average agility, acceleration, deceleration. etc = less capability to reach cover, avoid enemy fire = more damage taken by the less agile on average clan mechs.
  
• Many Clan mechs nerfed to the extreme in terms of agility, torso twist,etc i.e. the 100 ton mech movement profile assigned to the 75 ton Night Gyr.
  
• XL heat spike that when combined with the excess heat of clan weapons make most Clan mechs now explode immediately after losing a ST or go into a hard shutdown for 20-30 seconds leading to the enemy being able to rapidly finish off the helpless clan mech.
  
• Inability to Clan Omnimechs to spec out of XL engines in order to avoid XL torso loss penalties.
  
• Loss of almost all quirks on Omnimechs the second you switch an omnipod.

Ok I could go on but I am tired of typing. However I think I just demonstrated just how large a picture I consider when talking about this sort of thing and from where I stand, I am not seeing any Clan advantages any more because for each advantage they have, they have at least one disadvantage cancelling it out and that is my point. Clan mechs as a faction, don't have any intrinsic advantage over IS mechs. They have been thoroughly neutered, so much so that I tend to avoid playing all but the top tier clan mechs anymore.

You forgot to mention that IS can shoot 3 large lasers without ghost heat while Clan can only shoot 2 only.

[Grus]

El Bandito, on 10 February 2019 - 08:59 AM, said:

Clan mechs can make up the difference of durability in a section using one or two alphas since they generally pack harder hitting weapons. And LOL at mentioning component HP. That's as situational as free CASE all Clan mechs come equipped with.

Hp is Hp, free case doesn't add anything to a laserboat...

[El Bandito]

Grus, on 10 February 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Hp is Hp, free case doesn't add anything to a laserboat...

Except the bigger IS component HP comes with corresponding larger component sizes, thus making them easier to hit, which nullifies the whole point of the extra HP.

Meanwhile Clan CASE has absolutely no drawbacks and IS CASE is simply inferior in every way.

[Water Bear]

Y E O N N E, on 05 February 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

They see me creepin', they hatin'...

Srsly, tho, RIP JM6-DD and RIP GaussHammer.

Do you remember when the AC/40 Jager was among the most feared short-range combatants? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Now we find 'mechs with a 144 point alpha to be blasé.

Much the same issue with the non-strop consumable spam. At some point in the past, players figured out that strikes and UAVs were indeed quite good, and now every game sees tightly-packed consumable usage.

This is very much not the game I played 5 years ago, and I have to say it's not at all an improvement. We've known for what - 30 years now? - that Clans quadrupled the DPS in this game, and IS power creep followed. If the devs won't nerf the high damage tech (both IS and C) and insist on including it in the game, then we get 3 minute matches were everyone dies in a bright flash of infinite damage alphas and consumables.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 10 February 2019 - 09:26 AM, said:

Except the bigger IS component HP comes with corresponding larger component sizes, thus making them easier to hit, which nullifies the whole point of the extra HP.

Look, I'm all for dunking on Gyrok-imitators on the forum, but this doesn't make any sense because there are tons of IS mechs with more raw health points than Clan mechs of larger hitbox size. Don't be an anti-Gyrok.

EDIT: I misinterpreted "components" to mean individual body part hitboxes because PGI uses that terminology in patch notes and in-game tool tips.

Edited by FupDup, 10 February 2019 - 05:29 PM.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 10 February 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

Look, I'm all for dunking on Gyrok-imitators on the forum, but this doesn't make any sense because there are tons of IS mechs with more raw health points than Clan mechs of larger hitbox size. Don't be an anti-Gyrok.

I am referring to equipment and weapon HP and their sizes in that post. Was that not clear enough?

If you look again I was replying to Gyrok 2.0's comment about how IS has more HP on their weapon/equipment compared to Clans.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 10 February 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

I am referring to equipment and weapon HP and their sizes in that post. Was that not clear enough?

If you look again I was replying to Gyrok 2.0's comment about how IS has more HP on their weapon/equipment compared to Clans.

MWO refers to individual body part hitboxes like your legs and arms as "components," so that's what threw me off. Same name used for multiple different things.

[R Valentine]

It's such a waste to release the Rifleman IIC now. cLPLs are nerfed into the ground. I'm not even excited about this mech when I was about a year ago. For clan it's pretty much ATMs, dakka, or nothin'.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Kiran Yagami, on 10 February 2019 - 08:44 PM, said:

It's such a waste to release the Rifleman IIC now. cLPLs are nerfed into the ground. I'm not even excited about this mech when I was about a year ago. For clan it's pretty much ATMs, dakka, or nothin'.

Better late than never. I do agree on one thing though, clan large pulse lasers do need some serious love. They seriously feel so underwhelming when I run them on my Warhawk cLPL build. Either the RFL-IIC should get a bonus crit chance when running cLPL's, or IS/Clan energy weapons need a damage rebuff so we can see a diminish of ATM and dakka boats.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 10 February 2019 - 10:40 PM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Arnold The Governator, on 10 February 2019 - 10:35 PM, said:

Better late than never. I do agree on one thing though, clan large pulse lasers do need some serious love. They seriously feel so underwhelming when I run them on my Warhawk cLPL build. Either the RFL-IIC should get a bonus crit chance when running cLPL's, or IS/Clan energy weapons need a damage rebuff so we can see a diminish of ATM and dakka boats.

Both LPLs need love. Even with the shorter burn time, one (ish) piddling point of extra damage is just not usually worth two extra tons. They were much better when they were a solid +2 each. For that matter, CMPL is rather crap right now, too. No extra damage for twice the tonnage is a terrible deal no matter how much shorter the burn is.

Oh screw it, can we just have a rebalancing of every single pulse laser besides ISMPL? Use that as a baseline. It's the only pulse that isn't flat out bad right now.

[Valdarion Silarius]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 10 February 2019 - 11:35 PM, said:

Both LPLs need love. Even with the shorter burn time, one (ish) piddling point of extra damage is just not usually worth two extra tons. They were much better when they were a solid +2 each. For that matter, CMPL is rather crap right now, too. No extra damage for twice the tonnage is a terrible deal no matter how much shorter the burn is.

Oh screw it, can we just have a rebalancing of every single pulse laser besides ISMPL? Use that as a baseline. It's the only pulse that isn't flat out bad right now.

Oh I agree. I don't think it would hurt if all IS and Clan lasers were boosted by an additional 50m range to make them more viable as well. I liked how MW:LL did their lasers. cLPL's were a solid 800m effective range powerful but hotter energy weapon. It feels strong in the right hands but now overpowered because of how heat scale works in that game.

[Grus]

El Bandito, on 10 February 2019 - 09:26 AM, said:

Except the bigger IS component HP comes with corresponding larger component sizes, thus making them easier to hit, which nullifies the whole point of the extra HP.

Meanwhile Clan CASE has absolutely no drawbacks and IS CASE is simply inferior in every way.

Again clan case does nothing for a laser boat. And the additional damage isnt that significant.

[Verilligo]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 10 February 2019 - 11:35 PM, said:

Both LPLs need love. Even with the shorter burn time, one (ish) piddling point of extra damage is just not usually worth two extra tons. They were much better when they were a solid +2 each. For that matter, CMPL is rather crap right now, too. No extra damage for twice the tonnage is a terrible deal no matter how much shorter the burn is.

Oh screw it, can we just have a rebalancing of every single pulse laser besides ISMPL? Use that as a baseline. It's the only pulse that isn't flat out bad right now.

The LPLs and SPLs definitely need some damage improvements, but I am not as convinced about the cMPL. It's not just that you're gaining a shorter duration over the cERML, you're also producing less heat by far. That said, if it were bumped back up to 7 from 6.5, I doubt that would break anything. The reason cMPLs were ubiquitous in the past was mostly to do with their incredible range profile, something which they don't do anymore.

[R Valentine]

Verilligo, on 11 February 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

The LPLs and SPLs definitely need some damage improvements, but I am not as convinced about the cMPL. It's not just that you're gaining a shorter duration over the cERML, you're also producing less heat by far. That said, if it were bumped back up to 7 from 6.5, I doubt that would break anything. The reason cMPLs were ubiquitous in the past was mostly to do with their incredible range profile, something which they don't do anymore.

PGI is famous for nerfing into oblivion and never touching again. That's what happened to cMPLs and both LPLs and both SPLs. Pulse lasers are such garbage now.

[Oils]

So much superfluous tangents here, lol

Want to see quirks before i buy

[El Bandito]

Grus, on 11 February 2019 - 12:28 PM, said:

Again clan case does nothing for a laser boat. And the additional damage isnt that significant.

Logic dictates me to stop continuing this conversation with someone like you but my duty as a forumer compels me to tell you that meta Clan mechs right now use ballistics and missiles. Very glad that whenever my MCII-B and Scorch's limbs get blown off I 100% don't lose the STs too. All for free.

[CanadianCyrus]

Rifleman IIC will be capable of some solid offensive builds. But it comes at the cost of speed. The Rifleman IIC-A will be able to do dual Gauss + 4 ERML and over 70KPH with high mounted (not sure how high mounted the torso weapons will be, but I imagine they'll be high). https://mech.nav-alp...4dd3f_RFL-IIC-A

The IIC 2 variant can do 6 (U/LB)AC2 but will move like a 100 tonner, but all high mounted weapons.
https://mech.nav-alp...ade23_RFL-IIC-2 The ammo is a bit low, but the engine can still be lowered if need be.

The Main variant can do 2 LPL + 5 ERML, which is solid for laser vomit
https://mech.nav-alp...6b57786_RFL-IIC Equipped with JJs, runs 24 DBL Heatsinks with max engine. Only max speed of 58.5 kph. Once again, all high mounted.

IIC-4 Variant has missiles covered. This one can do 4x ATM12 due to the forced lower engine.
https://mech.nav-alp...22b70_RFL-IIC-4 Went 2xATM12 & 2xATM9 with JJs and an extra heatsink or two. Can lower armor half a ton to squeeze in a Light Tag.

The IIC-3 can do the same Sniper build the Mad IIC runs (minus the ECM)
https://mech.nav-alp...b5880_RFL-IIC-3
Or something a little more skirmish focused. 4x UAC5 with 2 ERML
https://mech.nav-alp...b4519_RFL-IIC-3

Slow, but the builds and high mounts will make the Rifleman IIC an interesting addition.

[jjm1]

This mech won't be bad IMO.

Sure its speed sucks, but I've played slow mechs before and figured them out, even come to prefer them sometimes.

If you stick with the assaults it's mounts should be ideal for shooting past heavier mechs to concentrate fire.

It will probably have a decent twist rate to aid its defense from faster mechs, if you like to aim at stuff, that's a really good stat to have on a mech.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Funzo, on 12 February 2019 - 02:47 AM, said:

Slow, but the builds and high mounts will make the Rifleman IIC an interesting addition.

Don't forget with speed tweak the mech will be able to go up to about 63 kmph on 235 XL engines. Not really all that slow considering most of the Night Gyr and Novacat variants can go 64.8 kmph.

[thievingmagpi]

don't waste armour or heat nodes on speed tweak