84 replies to this topic

[Black Ivan]

Indeed. What MWO has been lacking for many years is structured, moving forward and improving development. Not the dartboard balancing or neither waste like Solaris

[Kroete]

adamts01, on 12 February 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

I'd wager that not one single player has left the game due to anything on the forums. But many have left due to the potato lottery. We don't have the player numbers even if we did have a decent match maker, but we can limit the impact the worst of the worst have on matches. And remember, those same terrible players will win more because of it, and arguably have a better time. And heaven forbid they actually put some effort in to getting better and not being the worst on the team so they can drive an assault.

The outliers are the problem,
means the worst and the best make the matches worse for the average.

You missed half the problem, but dosnt matter, you idea is just stupid.


For a good matchmaker/matches you need only 4 tiers:
Tier 1: 20% of the players that are left in the nominal distribution,
Tier 2: 60% of the players that are sitting in the middle of the gausian distribution,
Tier 3: 20% of the players that are right from the bell.
Tier 4: A queue for cheater (better then banning)

Edited by Kroete, 13 February 2019 - 03:22 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Xiphias, on 12 February 2019 - 03:03 PM, said:

Arguably, gameplay changes have happened after PGI has seen enough forum noise and gameplay changes have absolutely driven players away.

Forcing players into a certain class of mech, while perhaps better for balance, would absolutely drive people away (players who want to feel powerful in their big assault mechs, or worse players who can't play a mech they spent $500 on).

If you believe forums can affect gameplay (evidenced by you posting this suggestion) then you have to believe that forums can, at least indirectly, drive players away from the game (as the proposal certainly would). If you don't believe that forum posts can lead to changes in gameplay then you shouldn't have bothered posting the thread in the first place.

The toxic mentality of many of the players on this forum does nothing to improve the game and even worse, reinforces that mentality in others and poisons the minds of new players who aren't careful who they listen to. Banning people from the forums however is unlikely to make anyone quit playing the game and if it does, the game is probably better off for it.

In other PvP Games(War Thunder,Star Conflict) you not can start with what you will ...higher Tier vehicles most come with many Experience and you begins with low Level Vehicles ...in War Thunder you not can fly from Begin a B29 only when you buy and risk a Disaster in the High Tier Fights without Experience.In Battlefield teh spawn of Vehicles limited and you not can drive with 25 tanks or a Team has 20 Jets.In Battlestar Galactica Online you must grinding many to buy the first Corvet and starts only in a Low Level Fighter

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 13 February 2019 - 03:48 AM.

[LordNothing]

RickySpanish, on 08 February 2019 - 07:19 PM, said:

Enjoy your matches filled with medium 'Mechs then.

that sounds like living legends.

you have to work your way up to earn those assaults. its not so bad having to startin lights when light mechs actually serve a purpose other than being the paper to cover the assault rocks.

its actually that way in the books too. seems assaults are very rare on the battlefield.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 February 2019 - 08:06 AM.

[Xiphias]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 13 February 2019 - 03:40 AM, said:

In other PvP Games(War Thunder,Star Conflict) you not can start with what you will ...higher Tier vehicles most come with many Experience and you begins with low Level Vehicles ...in War Thunder you not can fly from Begin a B29 only when you buy and risk a Disaster in the High Tier Fights without Experience.In Battlefield teh spawn of Vehicles limited and you not can drive with 25 tanks or a Team has 20 Jets.In Battlestar Galactica Online you must grinding many to buy the first Corvet and starts only in a Low Level Fighter

There's a big difference between a grind to higher level ships and restricting ships based on average match score. In the first case, even a bad player can get to the higher level ships given enough time. The OP's suggestion is that unless you are in the top 70-80% of all players you simply cannot access 3/4's of the mechs in the game, that's a terrible system.

Imagine if after spending a bunch of time grinding for a plane (say the B29) you can't play it anymore because you aren't good enough. Not because you need to grind money for repairs (requires time) simply because you aren't good enough.

Those games are also quite different from this one and they were build with that sort of progression from the start. In the case of MWO you can't just take away 100's of mechs that a player bought or earned because they aren't a good enough player. While this proposal would have no effect on me personally and I could still play anything I wanted, it would drive people away from this game.

[Eatit]

Solo Quick Play is a placeholder for more meaningful game modes. That's what they said way back when. Solo QP is for derping around in your latest insane build and having a good time. It in no way is meant as a competitive environment. There are other ques for that.

Punishing 90% of the people for not being in the top 10% will mean always punishing 90%. There can only be 10% in the top 10%. So as a business do you think it's a good idea for them to punish 90% of their customers? I don't think it is.

This is the worst idea but I do believe that the OP had good intentions.

[adamts01]

Mystere, on 12 February 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

I beg to disagree. Real, meaningful development is what would have saved this game.

Now it's all just rear-guard action designed to merely delay the inevitable.

There are two ways to look at it. I would have much rather seen this game develop in to something greater than a simple team death match. The fail of Faction Warfare was the beginning of the end. That said, this simple 12v12 is still an excellent quick death match, at least it was when Group Que was alive and well. If it were for a decent PSR and match maker, we'd at least still have an excellent team death match, even though that's not the real, meaningful development direction we would have liked to see.

Eatit, on 13 February 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

Solo Quick Play is a placeholder for more meaningful game modes. That's what they said way back when. Solo QP is for derping around in your latest insane build and having a good time. It in no way is meant as a competitive environment. There are other ques for that.

That's the entire problem in a nut shell. QP used to be the derping around mode, but now it's THE mode. If that's all we've got, we should make the most of it. FW/CW was DOA, and I've long argued to merge it with the now-dead Group Que. We needed to consolidate our dwindling community. But then we got Scouting and Solaris.... All that's left at this point is salvaging Quick Play.

[Dogstar]

I'd like to hear what people think if this proposal were inverted.

i.e. The better your average matchscore the lighter the mech you have to play

Old MW4 Ranger, on 13 February 2019 - 03:40 AM, said:

In other PvP Games(War Thunder,Star Conflict) you not can start with what you will ...higher Tier vehicles most come with many Experience and you begins with low Level Vehicles

Except of course that all of those games let you buy a higher tier 'premium' vehicle and play it instantly

[Prototelis]

It would still be stupid.

[TheArisen]

Is this a troll thread? I mean seriously this sounds like a troll thread.

If you're serious then you need to stop letting frustration cloud your thinking.

[Eatit]

adamts01, on 13 February 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:

There are two ways to look at it. I would have much rather seen this game develop in to something greater than a simple team death match. The fail of Faction Warfare was the beginning of the end. That said, this simple 12v12 is still an excellent quick death match, at least it was when Group Que was alive and well. If it were for a decent PSR and match maker, we'd at least still have an excellent team death match, even though that's not the real, meaningful development direction we would have liked to see.


That's the entire problem in a nut shell. QP used to be the derping around mode, but now it's THE mode. If that's all we've got, we should make the most of it. FW/CW was DOA, and I've long argued to merge it with the now-dead Group Que. We needed to consolidate our dwindling community. But then we got Scouting and Solaris.... All that's left at this point is salvaging Quick Play.

The reason QP is still around is because it's the derping around que. If we try to change it into one of the competitive ques won't it just die like they did? If the try hard's killed their que that's too bad for them. Don't come to the derp que and complain becaues we aren't competitive.

You say salvage quick play as if it were dead, but it's the only que still alive. You want to change into something that already died. That doesn't make any sense to me. It's alive because of what it is and changing it may well kill it too.

Bad ideas are just bad. Don't hold on so tight to it. We all have bad ideas. No shame in it.

Edited by Eatit, 13 February 2019 - 12:32 PM.

[Xiphias]

Dogstar, on 13 February 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

I'd like to hear what people think if this proposal were inverted.

i.e. The better your average matchscore the lighter the mech you have to play

As a light pilot I'd be fine with this (though I don't think it would be good for the game). It would force the best pilots in the game to run Fleas/Locusts/Piranhas. Do you really want to force all of the games best players into Piranhas while all the worst players are in assaults?

[Snakesh1t]

I'd rather see them do the War Thunder RB GF setup, you can bring in whatever you've got in your drop deck if you have the points for it (base it on tonnage). Forces a medium/heavy start, lights if you're feeling brave; you earn points to bring in more (would be nice to upgrade the drop deck availability as a C-Bill sink with upgrading your dropship.)

[adamts01]

Eatit, on 13 February 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

If the try hard's killed their que that's too bad for them.

There's really not much that I can blame this community for. Maybe NASCAR and a dead set refusal to communicate. No set of players killed Group Que, or CW for that matter. Those modes were efficiently and 100% killed by PGI. I was was always part of a group since the game released. Yeah, it sucked getting helplessly pounded by comp teams, but I never once blamed them. It's not their fault we had zero match maker, or enough of a community to give them anything more than target dummies.

And QP wasn't always the "derping around" mode. For the first 2 years or so there was actually communication and pretty good gameplay. Elo was a MUCH better system than we have now. I don't blame the community for that change either. Bads were elevated above their level by an absurd PSR, to a level where they could never hope to compete. Without any ability ever reach that level. I suppose another thing I can blame the community for is those bads in QP stubbornly owning being bad players, and making more of an effort than ever to bring lore builds or "support" mechs. But then again, they were beaten down to that position, so it's still not entirely their fault for purposefully staying bad. I really have never blamed players for being incompetent or even stupid. It's the MM's fault. But the least they could do is realize they're more of a detriment to their team in an assault than a medium. And seriously, look at the constant "nerf lights" posts to this day. These bad assaults refuse to correct their playstyles. They rage against lights, scream for nerfs, and end up quitting the game anyway.

I fully admit that this proposal would never happen, but reward boost after bad games to hop in to that weight class. That's a little bit more of a participation trophy approach that this new sensitive generation could possibly stomach.

[Grimvid]

Some people have not given in yet. Therefore, we get posts like this.

QP is 24 people--playing personal builds of different size mechs--in different mind sets deciding how to move and engage--on a field together with little leadership and communication.

Give up trying to control chaos and you will be much happier.

[Nameless King]

adamts01, on 13 February 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:

There are two ways to look at it. I would have much rather seen this game develop in to something greater than a simple team death match. The fail of Faction Warfare was the beginning of the end. That said, this simple 12v12 is still an excellent quick death match, at least it was when Group Que was alive and well. If it were for a decent PSR and match maker, we'd at least still have an excellent team death match, even though that's not the real, meaningful development direction we would have liked to see.

Faction Play put in the game was the beginning of the end, they should have focused on QP instead of spliting the player base.

[Nameless King]

Snakesh1t, on 13 February 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

I'd rather see them do the War Thunder RB GF setup, you can bring in whatever you've got in your drop deck if you have the points for it (base it on tonnage). Forces a medium/heavy start, lights if you're feeling brave; you earn points to bring in more (would be nice to upgrade the drop deck availability as a C-Bill sink with upgrading your dropship.)

So you want to play a worse game. Can we stop with the Bad Ideas please.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Dogstar, on 13 February 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

I'd like to hear what people think if this proposal were inverted.

i.e. The better your average matchscore the lighter the mech you have to play



Except of course that all of those games let you buy a higher tier 'premium' vehicle and play it instantly

yes ,you can Buy a Vecicle and play in the Upper Tier class and failed ..with the grinding for a Higher Tier vehicle you becomes experience ,its not a Part of Bad Playing , its a Part of less Experience by the most Assault Pilots, New Players thats thinking the biggest and most armed mech is the best for begin.

The Transverse Disaster ,the Ban wave by Reddit for many PGI Members and the internal Problems with the Leaving of leading Staff Peoples and Programmers bring MWO to a Quick Fall to ground ...you can not build a Game when you not have and find the Programmers for it ,while other Companys have better Conditions

[Appogee]

No. Fix the actual problem ... the meaningless PSR tiers.

Distribute players across the five tiers based on their average match score.

Then the matchmaker will be actually be able to discern halfway decent players from potatoes.

[Eatit]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 13 February 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

The Transverse Disaster ,the Ban wave by Reddit for many PGI Members and the internal Problems with the Leaving of leading Staff Peoples and Programmers bring MWO to a Quick Fall to ground ...you can not build a Game when you not have and find the Programmers for it ,while other Companys have better Conditions

Maybe just maybe PGI layed off the cryengine developers and hired unreal engine developers because they had a plan to make MW5.

Maybe there is a business plan in place that we don't have access to. I can't imagine that M$ gave the license to a company that didn't have a plan in place.

My version of that plan looks like:
Develop low cost shooter (MWO). Take in lots of money with empty promises. Use that money to make the game the community really wants... MW5.

That's how I see it. I think they've planned for MWO to be the funding engine for MW5.

Let's hope the plan wasn't to make millions milking the dedicated fans of BT with subpar games. But if that is the plan Kudos to them for pulling it off. Who doesn't want to make millions? I say wait for MW5 to get reviewed before you buy just in case this is the plan.