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Idea To The Devs To Help Solve Some Of The Issues With The Nascar


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#1 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:23 AM

Personally I hate the NASCAR and feel it is the biggest blight on enjoyment current in game. I think there are probably quite a few who feel the same way. This got me thinking, why does the NASCAR even occur and I came up with three reasons.

1. Map Design - Most of our maps have a large central feature that encourages rotational movement to bypass, ie. the Citade on River Cityl, the Cauldara on Caustic, the Satellite dish on HPG, etc.

2. The natural tendency of human to be be right hand and right eye dominant. This is pretty simple, we just tend to circle obstacles to the right rather than the left because we see better with our right eye and this allows for a better field of vision.

3. The location of Assault Lance Spawn.


Number 3 is the key here. For some reason the Assault lance is always spawned in either on the far left flank or furthest away from the central battlefield. What tends to happen is that the faster mechs tear off to the right side of the battlefield and then start circling left leaving the slower mechs to follow as best as they can but since the Assault Lance as the furthest to go, then tend to get strung out and become vulnerable to the faster enemy mechs also tearing off to the right. These results in the inevitable assault mechs being left behind to die and actively encourages lights to charge off in an attempt to engage those enemy Assaults left behind and vulnerable.

So what is the solution? Simple, move the Assault Spawn in to the right flank and bring them closer to the center of the battlefield so they always arrive first. This will likely not completely remove NASCAR from the game but at least you should have a situation where the light and medium mechs have to come to the Assault mechs who will have a shorter distance to travel resulting in the teams being more concentrated when they first engage. Here are some of the benefits.

1. Lights and Mediums have to come to the Assaults because the Assaults will enter engagement range first.

2. Since the Lights and Mediums are coming to the Assaults there should be no vulnerable stragglers for the lights and fast mediums to tear after. Instead it will be more beneficial to at least start off supporting the heavier mechs before flanking rotation begins.

Now sure I you could say that this will only result in the new tactic being counter NASCAR but remember the Assaults will be moved closer to the battlefield which means the Assaults from both sides will be in the central area and positioned before the lights can get to them. This should encourage the team to move toward the fight concentrating on the Assaults. Secondly, moving initially left and then circling right will be uncomfortable for most people due to the reason I mentioned above plus most builds are often right side heavy making circling clockwise more challenging as well.

So devs please consider this idea. Move the Assault Lance to the right side of battlefield and move them closer to where the heat maps show most engagements take place. Then move the lights to the remoter areas where the Assault Lance is typically placed now. Make it easy for the Assaults to get into battle which should make it so the tendency is for the team to move toward the engagement, rather than around the flank to pick off straggling Assault mechs who can't keep up. I bet this simple change would solve at least 1/2 the issues we have with the NASCAR.

#2 Nightbird

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:48 AM

I love NASCARing, I want the opposite of all the suggestions here, unfortunately our opinions cancel out :/

#3 Grus

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:07 PM

People just need to learn how to pivot and cut off the tail of the NASCAR and watch it fall apart. OR! Dont get in a position to be nascard...

#4 Palor

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:10 PM

I vote for random lance starting positions!

#5 Kiran Yagami

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:20 PM

Spawning position of charlie and alpha lances is the easiest change. If nascar tends to the right, then charlie lance should always be on the right and alpha lance on the far left. Make alpha lance run all the way through their own team if they even want to start nascar and give charlie lance a head start on the nascar. Or make everyone run to the left. At least that would be something different.

#6 Acersecomic

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:21 PM

Oh! I've got an idea. Teammates who die in nascar (at least one rough 360 circle made) get a 1minute matchmaker timeout! So the intelligent ones can go into queue without the drivers.

BE PILOTS, NOT DRIVERS! We're in giant mechs for gods sake!

#7 Verilligo

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:27 PM

View PostPalor, on 11 February 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

I vote for random lance starting positions!

Doesn't work, there are several ways of setting up the lances such that one side or the other has an overwhelming advantage. A really good team against an average team can still pull a win out of it, but it's much, much harder than it should be.

Edited by Verilligo, 11 February 2019 - 12:29 PM.


#8 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:57 PM

View PostKiran Yagami, on 11 February 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

Spawning position of charlie and alpha lances is the easiest change. If nascar tends to the right, then charlie lance should always be on the right and alpha lance on the far left. Make alpha lance run all the way through their own team if they even want to start nascar and give charlie lance a head start on the nascar. Or make everyone run to the left. At least that would be something different.


This is exactly my point. NASCAR might not be eliminated but the team would tend to concentrate fully before the NASCAR began and the slow Assaults wouldn't get left behind as a sacrifice. Just this alone resolves many of the major complaints about NASCAR.

1. Assaults being left to die early in the match.
2. Players getting pissed at other players due to them choosing slow assaults just to die early in the match (The whole get a faster mech attitude that keeps springing up).
3. Players complaining about under performing Assaults (Because many Assaults under perform simply because they have to try to keep up with the NASCAR instead of fighting.

Also I believe that the NASCAR might actually NOT be the preferred tactic if there wasn't always couple juicy slow stragglers for the lights to tear off after the second the match starts. End result, more fun and less bickering.

#9 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:00 PM

View PostVerilligo, on 11 February 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

Doesn't work, there are several ways of setting up the lances such that one side or the other has an overwhelming advantage. A really good team against an average team can still pull a win out of it, but it's much, much harder than it should be.


The crazy thing is, I thought the game was alot more fun in interesting back in the closed beta when they have asymmetrical drops, ie 8 random mechs dropped on one side. Sometimes you might have 6 lights, 1 heavy and 1 medium, other times 2 heavies and 6 mediums, other times 7 assaults and 1 light while the other team had a random make up of their own. You never knew what challenge you had to overcome.....kind of like real battle.

#10 Potatomasher69

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:44 PM

I really dislike the part of the community that is standing around flailing their arms about NASCAR. Press the push to talk button and call the drop if you don't like it.

Let's play camp and hold
Let's play bowling
Let's play anti Nascar

Alright let's take top
Alright stop turn and shoot

Soo many QP games have no communication and 1 in 3 games someone is crying about Nascar because nobody bothered to adjust the strategy with words. Nascar is not a dirty words it's the silent QP match default tactic, speak up ya gitz.

#11 Oils

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:57 PM

Nascar is a function of chasing first mech seen
never not happen

#12 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 06:19 PM

View PostPotatomasher69, on 11 February 2019 - 03:44 PM, said:

I really dislike the part of the community that is standing around flailing their arms about NASCAR. Press the push to talk button and call the drop if you don't like it.

Let's play camp and hold
Let's play bowling
Let's play anti Nascar

Alright let's take top
Alright stop turn and shoot

Soo many QP games have no communication and 1 in 3 games someone is crying about Nascar because nobody bothered to adjust the strategy with words. Nascar is not a dirty words it's the silent QP match default tactic, speak up ya gitz.


That is just the nature of quick play. I wish it were as easy as just calling the drop but its not because the caller isn't the elected leader or officer in charge and as often as not the caller is either inept or at least believed inept by half the team and ignored which very commonly results in worse results than the stupid NASCAR events as people go this way and that unsure how to respond to the team or caller. Then heaven forbid you get two egos knocking up against each other both trying to call the match, arguing over who is right and who is the idiot. That is the situation we have now. Seriously it is often just easier to go with the NASCAR and be done with it and that is the problem. It shouldn't be easier to just NASCAR which is why I proposed taking several of the situations that encourage NASCAR out of the equation.

We can't do anything about the stupid map design because PGI had a love affair with big terrain features in the center of the map that must be circled. We also can't change the biological wiring of right hand/eye dominant humans that prefer to pass an obstacle on the right side and turn left to give their dominant eye the best field of view. What we can change is the mechanisms in game that promote this behavior, ie. the Assault lance spawn location being the absolute furthest to the left, making the slowest mechs travel the longest distance to meet up with their teammates, a position that we know leaves these mechs vulnerable and is one of the primary factors NASCAR happens in the first place. If the Assaults weren't left out in the rear, there would be no vulnerable target for the lights to rush out after ie. no damn point to begin the NASCAR in the first place. It probably wouldn't completely eliminate NASCAR because as I mention, it is a natural movement for most people but at least the Assault mechs would at least be able to get to the front of the fight, bring their firepower to bear and get ahead of the rotation before it even starts. If nothing else came out of it that right there would be solid win for the game. That would eliminate most of the Assault pilots whining about being left behind and would also eliminate much of the whining about under performing Assaults. Hell it might even eliminate most of the whining in general about NASCAR or <gasp> lead to new tactics which would eliminate at least some of the repetitive nature of the game.

As for its effect on light mech pilots, honestly I feel it would be minimal. Sure they might lose out on those early kills as they rush to pick up stragglers but nothing really changes for them once the battle gets fully engaged. They are still going to disrupt the enemy, they are still going to scavenge heavily damage enemy mechs, they are still going to backstab the big assault mechs and they are still going to pick off any stragglers that manage to get separated from their teammates.

Edited by Angel of Annihilation, 11 February 2019 - 06:20 PM.


#13 DaZur

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:34 PM

View PostDaZur, on 09 February 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

I'm learning NASCAR in and of itself... Is not bad. Knowing when to stop NASCAR'ing is the skill a lot of folks have yet mastered...

Long and short, when the opposing team effectively NASCARs faster than you, it's time to stop NASCAR'ing and turn and support/fight with the tail-end-charlies. NOT continue NASCARing, sacrificing your tail-end-charlies, giving up both damage absorbing tonnage and aggregate firepower...

Sadly... lemmings continue to be lemmings. Posted Image


#14 Darakor Stormwind

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:52 PM

Not sure I agree with the cause of the problem. I keep seeing the Nascar Problem most vividly on Canyon Networks and HPG Manifold, myself.

In both maps, the best chance for success is taking the high ground, forming a decent firing line and then shooting the people on the low ground. So I advocate to push for the top as quickly as possible, most of the time. So when we have pushed to the top, it is really rare to actually see an Assault there. There are a surprising amount of "Second Line" Assaults and "Long Range" Assaults and "Support" Assaults in the game. Without the support at the top by the Assaults, those Medium and Heavy Mechs start taking fire, until they need to drop out of the firelane or die. They drop to the low ground. Congratz, now they have to start NASCAR to get into position again.

I would not put the blame on everybody but the Assaults. As always, I would say this is a team effort. ;)

#15 GeminiWolf

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:20 PM

View PostAngel of Annihilation, on 11 February 2019 - 11:23 AM, said:

Personally I hate the NASCAR and feel it is the biggest blight on enjoyment current in game. I think there are probably quite a few who feel the same way. This got me thinking, why does the NASCAR even occur and I came up with three reasons.

1. Map Design - Most of our maps have a large central feature that encourages rotational movement to bypass, ie. the Citade on River Cityl, the Cauldara on Caustic, the Satellite dish on HPG, etc.

2. The natural tendency of human to be be right hand and right eye dominant. This is pretty simple, we just tend to circle obstacles to the right rather than the left because we see better with our right eye and this allows for a better field of vision.

3. The location of Assault Lance Spawn.


Number 3 is the key here. For some reason the Assault lance is always spawned in either on the far left flank or furthest away from the central battlefield. What tends to happen is that the faster mechs tear off to the right side of the battlefield and then start circling left leaving the slower mechs to follow as best as they can but since the Assault Lance as the furthest to go, then tend to get strung out and become vulnerable to the faster enemy mechs also tearing off to the right. These results in the inevitable assault mechs being left behind to die and actively encourages lights to charge off in an attempt to engage those enemy Assaults left behind and vulnerable.

So what is the solution? Simple, move the Assault Spawn in to the right flank and bring them closer to the center of the battlefield so they always arrive first. This will likely not completely remove NASCAR from the game but at least you should have a situation where the light and medium mechs have to come to the Assault mechs who will have a shorter distance to travel resulting in the teams being more concentrated when they first engage. Here are some of the benefits.

1. Lights and Mediums have to come to the Assaults because the Assaults will enter engagement range first.

2. Since the Lights and Mediums are coming to the Assaults there should be no vulnerable stragglers for the lights and fast mediums to tear after. Instead it will be more beneficial to at least start off supporting the heavier mechs before flanking rotation begins.

Now sure I you could say that this will only result in the new tactic being counter NASCAR but remember the Assaults will be moved closer to the battlefield which means the Assaults from both sides will be in the central area and positioned before the lights can get to them. This should encourage the team to move toward the fight concentrating on the Assaults. Secondly, moving initially left and then circling right will be uncomfortable for most people due to the reason I mentioned above plus most builds are often right side heavy making circling clockwise more challenging as well.

So devs please consider this idea. Move the Assault Lance to the right side of battlefield and move them closer to where the heat maps show most engagements take place. Then move the lights to the remoter areas where the Assault Lance is typically placed now. Make it easy for the Assaults to get into battle which should make it so the tendency is for the team to move toward the engagement, rather than around the flank to pick off straggling Assault mechs who can't keep up. I bet this simple change would solve at least 1/2 the issues we have with the NASCAR.

Wrong, only one reason for the Nascar and PGI has no control over it... Playerbase
Oh and removing 2 maps... Old Frozen City and Old Forest Colony which made players make firelines because there was no way really to circle around.

#16 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:58 PM

View PostAngel of Annihilation, on 11 February 2019 - 11:23 AM, said:

3. The location of Assault Lance Spawn.

Number 3 is the key here. For some reason the Assault lance is always spawned in either on the far left flank or furthest away from the central battlefield.


Just shows that you actually got no clue where assault lance is spawning.

#17 Snowhawk

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 12:06 AM

Just make sure that your mech goes at least at ~ 70 kph and everything is ok..... Nascar is good! Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#18 El Bandito

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 12:32 AM

View PostAngel of Annihilation, on 11 February 2019 - 11:23 AM, said:

The natural tendency of human to be be right hand and right eye dominant. This is pretty simple, we just tend to circle obstacles to the right rather than the left because we see better with our right eye and this allows for a better field of vision.


Lies, my left eye has better eyesight!

#19 GuardDogg

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 01:16 AM

Canyon map is the best for NASCAR. No matter what game type, it is NASCAR. Very unavoidable. I have tried many time to change the meta to another grid using VOIP, but it continues to fail.

#20 Febrosian R Gillingham

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 04:52 AM

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 11 February 2019 - 10:52 PM, said:

Not sure I agree with the cause of the problem. I keep seeing the Nascar Problem most vividly on Canyon Networks and HPG Manifold, myself.

In both maps, the best chance for success is taking the high ground, forming a decent firing line and then shooting the people on the low ground. So I advocate to push for the top as quickly as possible, most of the time. So when we have pushed to the top, it is really rare to actually see an Assault there. There are a surprising amount of &quot;Second Line&quot; Assaults and &quot;Long Range&quot; Assaults and &quot;Support&quot; Assaults in the game. Without the support at the top by the Assaults, those Medium and Heavy Mechs start taking fire, until they need to drop out of the firelane or die. They drop to the low ground. Congratz, now they have to start NASCAR to get into position again.

I would not put the blame on everybody but the Assaults. As always, I would say this is a team effort. ;)

View PostGuardDogg, on 12 February 2019 - 01:16 AM, said:

Canyon map is the best for NASCAR. No matter what game type, it is NASCAR. Very unavoidable. I have tried many time to change the meta to another grid using VOIP, but it continues to fail.


The most frustrating thing is that the design of Canyon Network is set up explicitly to stop a rotation play up the ramps. Yes, there is a thing in the middle, but also ridiculous amounts of cover around the outside of the map that turn the ramps into kill zones. Refer to
https://mwomercs.com...54#entry6214454 for pretty diagrams and pichers!

It's an issue of ingrained player behavior. A metagame exists for mech choice and playstyle, one also exists for how players play on a map. In the case of Canyon Network, Mining Collective, and even HPG to an extent, PGI has already provided us with ample ways to punish a Nascar play through the amount of cover on the outer rings of the map. The trick is getting people to use it. The more people that know how easy it is to counter, the better things will get.

Edited by Febrosian R Gillingham, 12 February 2019 - 04:55 AM.






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