63 replies to this topic

[InspectorG]

MechaBattler, on 20 February 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

They screwed over so many mechs scaling up to the Atlas. Hitbox performance should have taken precedence in my opinion. Lookin at the Uziel. Would it really have hurt things to shrink those massive tires?

They made a big show of the Catapult and the Nova being smaller. But upsized a lot of lights and left them in poor condition. Most of the mediums are too damn tall too. It's not really surprising they're screwy with scaling.

They didnt offset the 'bug' mechs with no arms. All that volume tended to go to the torso.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Sssshhh. They might scale it up and then it'll be squishy, sluggish, and huge. At least right now it's got size working in its favor.

[kapusta11]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 20 February 2019 - 10:16 PM, said:

Sssshhh. They might scale it up and then it'll be squishy, sluggish, and huge. At least right now it's got size working in its favor.

It's a done deal at this point.

https://twitter.com/...013878712037377

Funny how it's art and not balance department are the ones who have the final say. But it's PGI we're talking about so I guess it makes sense.

[Acersecomic]

Acersecomic, on 20 February 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

Quote from Sarna to ease all you "mine is too small".

The original Warhammer was designed as an assault BattleMech. However, it had been superseded by later and heavier 'Mech designs, though it remained a powerful weapons platform. The Clans wisely maintained and built on this solid frame a real assault 'Mech, the Warhammer IIC. Thanks to their technological expertise, they were able to add ten tons with the same speed and firepower and nearly double the armor of the original. The Warhammer IIC is built on an Endo Steel frame and is protected by twelve tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor. The result is a dangerous 'Mech, able to hold its own in any battle against the Inner Sphere. Also note that the armor was the primary concern when designing the IIc version rivaling even 100 ton assault 'Mechs in durability and protection .

There you go, the IIC is regular Hammer with clan flavor and more new tech and armor to add the extra weight without increasing size.
Kinda like wearing a Kevlar vest and high-tech goggles.

End of size discussion.

[mad kat]

The Whole Volume = Mass thing is just ridiculous.

I really don't want to blast Alex's designs as i think a lot of them are great, bar a few exceptions and this is ultimately a game understand. But then a grasp on Density, COG and structural limitations has always been ropy in this game. Just look at the vast majority of mechs at their torso and hip joints and they're nearly all no where near stout enough. And conversely some joints are far too bulky (like the vast majority of knee and ankle joints in game, unless of course they're double articulated)

Also take for example the dragon's right arm it looks as if that enormous right arm is connected to a feeble joint (as many are). Like the clan mechs of old art but then no designer of sane mind would design it's arm to be so bulky and 'hollow' as that's wasted tonnage and limits movement.

Mechs that are blocky should typically be smaller as it's easier to fill that space with structure and consequently require less of it which could equate to greater payload or more armour, take the Awesome for example a very 'square mech' few of its angles are sharp. then take the marauder that long thin and sharper shape would require more internal volume and so could be argued should be bigger than awesome despite being 5 tons lighter.

That being said longer thinner mechs make more sense from a protection point of view as the smaller the cross section the less of a target could be hit the sloped armour also adds more protection. So mechs like the Crab, Marauder, stalker etc all make sense so long as you can face your enemy as it becomes your undoing if they get to your sides. Mechs like the aforementioned Awesome, Zeus, banshee etc would require more armour but less structure.

[ShiverMeRivets]

If there was any real volumetric scaling then mechs like the commando and piranah would have been as tall as the chest of an Atlas.
Imagine the tears...

[FLG 01]

ShiverMeRivets, on 21 February 2019 - 10:31 AM, said:

If there was any real volumetric scaling then mechs like the commando and piranah would have been as tall as the chest of an Atlas.
Imagine the tears...

No tears. People would simply switch to assaults. And make no mistake: those who currently struggle against competent light pilots will be equally useless then. They would just be killed by other assaults, and the game itself would lose variety.

[Nightbird]

Assaults would still be vulnerable to lights from the back, with agility, plus if assaults were made smaller w.r.t. lights then the survival quirks would go away.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

hmmmmm

[FupDup]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 21 February 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

hmmmmm

Even with the wonky scaling I consider the IS Warhammer to be the superior mech most of the time. The art department's potential upscaling of this mech (see post #23) will only seal the deal.

If PGI gave the mech actual agility in exchange for the upscale then I would be happy to take that trade however.

[Spheroid]

@Toha: I don't know why you even posted that. The point of Academy testing grounds is you can swap out of the mech you brought into an identical loaner and setup comparative camera shots at the same distance from the target. You don't appear to have done that. Explain your thinking here. Your meaning is lost on me.

Edited by Spheroid, 21 February 2019 - 11:47 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Spheroid, on 21 February 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

Your meaning is lost on me.

Just wanted first hand impressions. both got similar loadout (PPC arms, + lrm10), switched into the dragon, tilted the cockpit down as far as i could and walked infront the WHM until the rim of my lower cockpit matched the the floor tile. It's not 100% but it's pretty close.
Also just checked on the the knee bend, it's fairly similar on both.

I also took pictures from the catapults standing position, they are much more in favor for the IIC, wanna see?

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 21 February 2019 - 12:03 PM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Been busy tearing up the resident evil 2 remake so haven been able to take a look till today, park it next to a centurion - kinda feel bad for the cent.

[Grus]

http://www.sarna.net...i/Warhammer_IIC


The 2c wasn't supposed to be any bigger really. As per lore. But the armor iteration of this mech is lacking.

[Avlaen]

Considering its awful agility stats, it needs the small size as much as it can, also hows its scale compare to other 80T like the awesome?

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Oh, it's got a great profile compared to the Awesome. Worse agility, though.

Then again, Texas has a smaller frontal profile than the Awesome, so there's that.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Avlaen, on 26 February 2019 - 10:32 PM, said:

Considering its awful agility stats, it needs the small size as much as it can, also hows its scale compare to other 80T like the awesome?

As you seem to have missed it: https://mwomercs.com...er-iic-release/

[Koniving]

HammerMaster, on 20 February 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

Atlas has been too big from the start.
Look at the "Skinny Atlas" from the original Smith and Tinker MW5.
THAT should have been our Atlas.
Rest is just massive mis-size history.
Lights are sized properly.
Everything else is TOO BIG.

Also note the Smith and tinker version of the Atlas is almost the same size as the warhammer. Recently found out why.

Atlas in MWO was 18.6 and became 18.8 after regale.
Atlas in BT is up to half a meter shy of 14 meters (depending on source. There is official scaled art that I am trying to get a hold of.)
The Destroid Tomahawk.... Is officially scaled at 13.8 meters tall.
(From BT's Warhammer art showing the inner workings of the mech with a measurement for scale in feet horizontally that when put against the female pilot is the same height (5 feet), the Warhammer in that scaled art comes out to...(from my most recent scale stuffs.)

If Smith and tinker used either the BT scale from that art to the Tomahawk scale... It'd explain the similarity in height between Atlas and Warhammer.

But yeah that's all I got for here.

In the battle of the grey beards at mech con 2017... Remember Jordan Weisman saying 20 to 40 feet tall for his mech selection? Convert it into meters.

He had high end lights to heavies at 20 to 40 feet tall. In theory given that in the Clan invasion nothing was taller than 14.4 meters (which Hunchback there is 13.6 which is 42+ feet...)..
Everything is just about too big.

[Koniving]

(One more fun thing for misconceptions. SRMs can be carried in and fired from a rifle on foot. With a separate guidance system cobtrolled by a remote joystick on the hip).
Granted this is a dumbed down version without the automated guidance of regular SRMs...but that leads to another thing missing here...doesn't it? Anyway it still does the same damage.

(And yes I am aware the hip controls look really really stupid and impractical... Better to have it on the gun and be more....intuitive..

[HammerMaster]

Koniving, on 27 February 2019 - 05:11 PM, said:

STUFF

Keep in mind I'm talking this skinny Atlas in black and white stop motion. NOT the released colored shiny one.

Edited by HammerMaster, 27 February 2019 - 05:25 PM.