24 replies to this topic

[NecessaryWeevil]

Hi, not really a new player but I've been away from the game awhile and mostly a Light specialist so I'll post here anyway.

After a frustrating match in which I didn't feel our heavier mechs did anything with the opportunities provided, I've decided to see whether I can do better in a Heavy myself - or maybe explore the depths of my hypocrisy - we'll see.

So - how does one heavy as a relative beginner, in a few sentences or less? I'm thinking
- pack a reasonable amount of armour
- bring a variety of weapon ranges
- follow the Assaults or at least your own lance
- support pushes
- don't try to be a "Sniper" and hide behind a rock all match. Share your armour.

Is that about right?

[Prototelis]

As you play more you'll eventually find that "bracket" builds are kind of pointless. You're way better off mounting weapons that have some sort of synergy at similar ranges.

Post up what mechs you have and we can help you out.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Thanks, I appreciate it. Right now I have a CPLT-K2, CPLT-A1, and CPLT-C4. I'm tinkering with the K2 right now; looking at a 300 Engine with Endo-Steel, 2 PPCs and 2 MLs, max armour and filling up the rest of the space with DHS and a targetting computer. But I'm wondering if it's undergunned. Maybe also an LAMS.

Edited by NecessaryWeevil, 25 February 2019 - 12:42 PM.

[Koniving]

How to heavy.

First: Acquire money.
Second: Spend money on food. A lot of food.
Third: Consume food.
Fourth: Realize we skipped preparing and cooking food.
Now you're Heavy.

But on a more serious note this depends on what your goal is. First, what is your primary target of opposition? Faster or slower enemies? Heavies...don't generally do well against both as some heavies are really fast but frail and some are slower than molasses in their torso twist and other features.

Yes, as always you want a lot of armor. The variety of weapon ranges isn't as necessary, though having some long range capability alongside your short/medium range is good to have. However, a full on bracket build is, as Prototelis said is not suited for the way MWO runs. There's no infantry, vehicles or aircraft to deal with, and MWO has a thermal cap of nearly 60 as opposed to 30, as well as what is effectively 2.5 DHS. So there isn't any real point in bracket building. A setup of two ranges is about the closest you might get, as going all out with no backup...is just gonna get you laughed at.

Sharp shooters that can get up close and personal are acceptable. For example

But better, of course, would be to orient yourself around someone else. In this case, I'm the fire support to an Atlas, along side two others that together complete a lance.

My Archer design, which has been unchanged since the first time I played it, serves as a tank (because with the doors closed and 20% damage resistance to each ST and the CT), as a deterrent (people are hard pressed to voluntarily run into a rain of LRMs), and as a close range anti-light defense (SRMs and reasonably good aim, as well as the finishing blow of LRMs as they retreat).

Now, going all out on your weapons doesn't mean they have to be identical, just that they have to work together. For example if you get a pack of SRMs and an autocannon that travels at the same speed, they will work well together (this is initially why AC/20 and SRM-6 was a common combination). Naturally all lasers travel at the same speed of instant (along with MGs) so they make sense to mix, hence laser vomit.

Edit: (damn autocorrect, "Serves" is a word!)

Edited by Koniving, 25 February 2019 - 12:56 PM.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Thanks Koniving. Your comments are always helpful. Right now I'm imagining standing in the firing line but not being useless if the team charges into close range. So, primarily targeting bigger, slower enemies.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

For the K2... what build works best for you will likely depend on how aggressive your playstyle is. Some possibilities:

If you're going to be right up front helping to lead the push, PPCs (of any type) probably shouldn't be your first choice weapon. Instead, maybe a pair of cool-running ballistics as primary weapons, with a brace of medium lasers for an extra punch when you need it. Here's an example with dual AC10s. You have a pretty respectable pinpoint alpha, which is always a plus, but you can also rely on just the AC10s when you're running hot, whereas with pure energy builds (especially PPC-based builds) you will need more downtime to cool off even with more sinks. The other advantage over PPCs is, of course, that you don't have a minimum range to worry about.

If you do want to stick with PPCs, consider trading up for Heavy PPCs instead of standards. Higher damage per shot means fewer trades required to deliver the same damage, which means you take less damage in return. PPCs already run very hot and require a lot of downtime, so it's usually better to just deliver a larger up-front punch.

Either of the above will require that you take a smaller engine than you planned to, but at 69kph you're still easily able to keep up with the team, and the extra tonnage in weaponry, ammo, or sinks will absolutely make a difference.

You can also run a large laser boat. Not what most people think of when they see the K2, but viable nevertheless. For most of the game, you will want to fire the lasers in staggered pairs- fire one pair, then fire the other pair a half-second into the first pair's burn. You will incur a heat penalty for firing all four lasers at once, but it is quite manageable (you won't overheat yourself on the first or second shot)- so you can still alpha strike if a good opportunity presents itself. The main advantage of this build is sustained damage output; despite being all-energy, the build will actually run fairly cool as long as you fire the lasers in pairs, thanks to the K2's -10% energy heat quirk and the high number of sinks.

[Mister Maf]

If you've got a spare mechbay, I would suggest picking up a Roughneck. It's sturdy and flexible, can be reasonably agile, and is all-around a pretty forgiving mech to pilot. Put a mid-close range build on the it; hard to go wrong with that. The Catapult is a classic mech but not really as good as people say it is; in quickplay it's largely been obsoleted by the Archer which has more armor and isn't as easily disarmed.

As for piloting, heavy mechs are by no means a monolith and like medium mechs vary in role. Some are frontline mechs that stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the assaults, such as the Orion and Cataphract; some are second liners that pack a lot of fire support for the tonnage like the Hellbringer and Catapult; and some are heavy-hitting flankers like the Linebacker and, depending on how you build it, the Dragon. Some like the Mad Dog are flexible enough to do all three — but only one at a time because, as others have said, multirole builds usually don't work very well.

For close range IS mechs, it's always a good idea to bring at least one mid-range weapon like an MRM launcher or AC10/UAC10 to give you standoff ability outside your close range weapons, but rarely is it a good idea to compliment that with an LRM, which will just damage your firepower in a standup fight. Alternatively, specialize in mid-long range weapons like gauss or heavy PPCs and stand in the middle of the team; these kinds of build I find benefit greatly from a flamer or two for self-defense when a brawler rushes you, as shutting them down or making them overheat will do much more damage to them than a medium laser could hope to.

Edited by Mister Maf, 25 February 2019 - 02:34 PM.

[The Lost Boy]

The roughneck is solid for IS and the orion IIC for the clans. The clan orions can mount assault loadouts and have the speed and armor to deliver. The roughneck can be sooooo tanky and has some great hardpoints as well.

[Koniving]

I can second roughneck. The free hero from back in the day is my primary model sporting cannons and Light PPCs as well as an Mrm rack. The Mrm rack is mainly for emergencies. Quite fun and fairly tanky.

[Renfis]

My personal favourite when it comes to heavies are the IS Marauders.

MAD-3R with dual LBX10 and 4 MLas (make sure to protect that right torso). Poke with the LBX, skirmish, stick with friendlies and aim for open components, don't be afraid to close in and brawl if you have to.

MAD-5D with dual MRM20 and 4 (or 5? Cant remember) MPLas. Bring coolshots. Protect your left shoulder, Poke with MRMs. 1vs1 you can outbrawl almost anything. Use your MRMs to sandblast the enemy mechs armor and use your MPLs to dismantle exposed components. Remember to engage override. This mech is insanely fun (and quite hot!)

MAD-5M with 4 (I think) MLas, 1 AC20 and a snubnosed PPC. Recently started using this setup, and it's alot of fun. Cooler than the 5D, hotter than the 3R. This is the only Marauder that I don't like to commit to a brawl with unless I have friendlies around or THE enemy is squishy or a typical long range build. Stay with friends close to to the front, skirmish a bit and dismantle sidetorsos.

All of the above are running standard or light 300ish engines. The 3R netted me my first Ace of spades and usually deals quite alot of damage. The 5D will get you really high damage scores, but you'll also be spreading it out quite a bit. The 5M usually gets lower damage, but you'll be racking up kills if you focus on blowing up side torsos.

Also got the Cataphract Hero, Ilya Muromets, not too long ago. Tanky beast, run it with 2 snubnosed PPCs and 1 AC20. Really hot in a long fight, but I can squeeze of 3 Alphas without pausing and thats 120 pinpoint damage. Closerange murdermachine. You want to secure kills with this one due to long cooldown, so look for any open compartment and remove it in one or two shots. Same as with the Marauders, stay in first or second line and focus fire. You have ALOT of armor, so don't be afraid to share it.

Dont know if any of the above are actually "meta", but they suit my playstyle (I like to brawl), they can all tanke alot of punishment and they are fun to run.

[Roland09]

NecessaryWeevil, on 25 February 2019 - 12:38 PM, said:

[...] Maybe also an LAMS.

I would warn you against bringing a LAMS on an IS mech, unless you are running a really heat-efficient build (say, dual Gauss, for example), or you will have to switch the LAMS on and off constantly.

Depending on quirks / skill tree, it will take ~14 - 15 DHS to absorb the heat from a firing LAMS. You would have few heat sinks left to vent heat from your own weapons fire, thereby gimping your effectiveness.

Regular AMS is fine, though.

[Phoenix 72]

Besides agreeing with Roughnecks and Marauders as good choices for tanky IS Heavy Mechs, I would also suggest the Warhammer. The Black Widow is quite good and the 6R is almost the same Mech. It is not as tanky as the Marauder and the Roughneck, but it works quite well for a number of builds, bringing versatility.

The Mechs are just the first part... You can fill a variety of roles in a heavy, but generally speaking, you should go where everybody goes and shoot what everybody shoots. You should draw fire every now and then, giving the enemy something to shoot at, without actually being destroyed, preserving your firepower. And that is the hardest part to get good at, IMO. Being shot without panicking. Just twisting and trying to spread damage over as much of your Mech as possible, making it really expensive (heat wise) to kill you.

Edited by Darakor Stormwind, 25 February 2019 - 10:44 PM.

[Horseman]

MAD-3R, RGH-2A, WHM-6R are all decent options. Of the mechs you have, you can fit the Catapult K2 with 2xUAC10 and some medium lasers for backup, while both A1 and C4 can be fitted with SRMs to make them extremely brutal brawlers.

[Princeps Ibram Cain]

For starters, i recomend Jagers. Think they are a artillery tower whit legs.

[admiralbenbow123]

Princeps Ibram Cain, on 04 March 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

For starters, i recomend Jagers. Think they are a artillery tower whit legs.

I'd recommend a marauder 3r. It's tanky, has a lot of pod space and quite mobile as well as really powerful.

[Horseman]

Princeps Ibram Cain, on 04 March 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

For starters, i recomend Jagers. Think they are a artillery tower whit legs.

Too vulnerable for a newbie's ride IMO.

[Steel Raven]

The K2 is almost a mini Marauder/Warhammer, allot of build options and tanky.

For my C4, I loaded up on SRMs and Medium Lasers and go on Kamikaze runs to break up enemy firing lines (never stop moving, never alpha unless you see a assault that needs to die)

[Horseman]

At only 5t less tham a WHM, might as well get the WHM.

[Tesunie]

NecessaryWeevil, on 25 February 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

Hi, not really a new player but I've been away from the game awhile and mostly a Light specialist so I'll post here anyway.

After a frustrating match in which I didn't feel our heavier mechs did anything with the opportunities provided, I've decided to see whether I can do better in a Heavy myself - or maybe explore the depths of my hypocrisy - we'll see.

So - how does one heavy as a relative beginner, in a few sentences or less? I'm thinking
- pack a reasonable amount of armour
- bring a variety of weapon ranges
- follow the Assaults or at least your own lance
- support pushes
- don't try to be a "Sniper" and hide behind a rock all match. Share your armour.

Is that about right?

Well, I'm a medium mech pilot, so I probably am not the best person to give advice on Heavies. What I tend to do is find heavies that can be treated like they are a medium mech, such as the Champion, Linebacker, Quickdraw, etc. I also profess more for LRM and mid range combat. (I want to note here, I don't use just LRMs, but am experienced in a diverse array of weapons.)

As for actual tips:
- Always take full or nearly full armor. A few points off your head and legs to round your armor out isn't going to hurt you most times. If you have to skimp armor, find an arm with nothing in it to lower the armor of. Maybe a half ton off the legs at most (in my opinion).
- Bring a focused build. This doesn't mean focus exclusively into a role, but you should have a focused loadout with maybe a secondary role to branch out into. I personally like builds with a little bit of diversity, but there is a point were you can become to diverse. Find that good blend of two roles (if you are diversifying your build) as you work the mech. Don't try to fill in more than two roles. (AKA: For example, my Catapult Butterbee has two LLs and two ERMLs for mid ranged direct fire punch. I paired that up with twin LRM10s for some indirect support as a compliment. I've diversified into two roles, with a larger focus on my direct fire abilities over that of the LRMs support abilities.)
- Support your team. Don't wonder off on your own unless you REALLY need to. Focus what your team is shooting at.
- Every mech should be prepared to "share armor". Of course, this doesn't always mean "take damage", but rather drawing attention and fire away from other elements of your team. A lightmech does this by flanking and/or getting behind the enemy, forcing their guns elsewhere, preferably where said light mech is no longer standing. (Yes, even LRM mechs should be doing this.)
- You may be larger than a light mech, but don't forget to use cover. Poke in and out of cover, preferably different cover each time or at least different spots from the same cover. If you poked out the left side of a building, try not to repeat that too many times. Be unpredictable.
- Protect your teammates. Don't let your assults get quickly destroyed by an enemy light in their backside. They have a lot of weapons and armor, and it's wasted if they just pop from a quick rear attack...

The biggest thing that is different from a light mech to a heavy mech (besides speed, firepower and armor) is your role shift. You aren't going to be performing the same roles as you would as a light mech, so you need to be aware of that. Positioning will be more important than with a light. You probably have reasonable speed as a heavy, but it's not going to be enough to run from the left to the right flanks to react to a situation. You are going to need to be more predictive, rather than reactive.

Edited by Tesunie, 05 March 2019 - 02:14 PM.

[Renzor the Red]

NecessaryWeevil, on 25 February 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

Hi, not really a new player but I've been away from the game awhile and mostly a Light specialist so I'll post here anyway.

After a frustrating match in which I didn't feel our heavier mechs did anything with the opportunities provided, I've decided to see whether I can do better in a Heavy myself - or maybe explore the depths of my hypocrisy - we'll see.

So - how does one heavy as a relative beginner, in a few sentences or less? I'm thinking
- pack a reasonable amount of armour
- bring a variety of weapon ranges
- follow the Assaults or at least your own lance
- support pushes
- don't try to be a "Sniper" and hide behind a rock all match. Share your armour.

Is that about right?

Sharing armor doesn't mean getting shot. It means providing more mechs for the enemies to focus on, diluting their focus on one. You can't always fight at multiple ranges, but it's nice when you can. Focusing on midrange is the most versatile. Everyone should stay with the assaults, other than lights doing light stuff. Everyone should support pushes. And if you're spending all of your time hiding, you won't be doing damage, and won't be whittling down the enemy team, thus, making your team more likely to lose.

Some heavies are very specialized and should fill those roles, like a Catapult with LRM's, or a Night Gyr sniper finding a further distant flanking spot. Some also have to hold off until the enemy is within 300 meters to go in. But It's basically like playing an assault where you have to focus even more on cover and not getting yourself killed, because you have a lot of firepower, but are more squishy.