121 replies to this topic

[Prototelis]

Lol, y'all still arguing with dude who doesn't play the game.

[MischiefSC]

dwwolf, on 21 March 2019 - 05:54 AM, said:

Because its now useless to take 2 or 2 launchers. Dont bother mixing them with other weapons.

I've done so repeatedly and have done fine.

[Prototelis]

Yeah, the AMS has died down. LRMs are strong as **** when there aren't any counters, they move so got damn fast.

[Kubernetes]

Is AMS really hurting MRMs like the paper stats suggest? I've only played a handful of games in my IV4, but I've not seen any real diminution of dmg output. Maybe I've just gotten lucky?

[KursedVixen]

Annnd nobody talks about ATM Launchers.

[Dee Eight]

Really ? The two C-LRM15s without tag or artemis i was using on my shadowcat-B last night worked out great for me. Direct LOS firing from 200 to 600 meters works quite well if you're not a coward.

[Slambot]

SRM's should not be intercepted by ams. IF they are, well then the ams has less than a second to do anything. SRMs are marginal especially in big mechs as it is. Any further limitation on a marginal weapon system should be eliminated. They can be very effective when boated or on very tough mechs with some mobility. Given the options, most players with hardpoints and tonnage will elect for ATMs or MRMS given that it takes quite a bit of effort to get into range with the SRM.

Edited by Slambot, 21 March 2019 - 10:48 AM.

[Sixpack]

Khobai, on 20 March 2019 - 10:14 PM, said:

To be fair the linebacker is hardly representative of most heavies though. In fact its an oddity. It doesnt have the tonnage that a regular clan heavy does so of course it has to rely on lighter tonnage weapons like SRMs.

Would linebackers still use SRMs if they had the tonnage to use better weapons? Nope. Thats why you dont see Ebon Jaguars using SRMs for example. The Ebon Jaguar is the same exact tonnage as the Linebacker, it has missile omnipods too, but people dont put SRMs on it because it has the tonnage for heavier weapons. The only other heavy you see people put SRMs on regularly is the Orion IIC because its 3M 2E 1B hardpoints essentially force it to use SRMs. Theres not really any better options for those M hardpoints.

The linebacker is another case of a mech being forced to use SRMs because it HAS TO. Again just because youre forced to take a weapon doesnt necessarily mean that weapon is good. It just means its the least worst of the options available to you. SRMs are mostly a compromise weapon, you take them because you have to take them due to tonnage or hardpoint limits, not because theyre your #1 weapon pick. There are way better weapons than SRMs.

You almost never see SRMs on clan heavies and assaults. If you do its only on purpose-built brawlers like the Orion or Scorch which have hardpoints that dont make sense for anything BUT SRMs. Nobody puts SRMs on scorch because they WANT TO, they put SRMs on Scorch because they HAVE TO. Theyre the least bad option for those M hardpoints. And Orion/Scorch arnt really dominating the meta last I checked. They certainly arnt overperforming compared to Hellbringers or MadcatMK2s.

Once again SRMs didnt need to be nerfed. Theres absolutely no evidence that SRMs were overperforming at all.

I disagree on the Ebon Jaguar part and so on in regards to SRMs.

Clan SRMs have bad spread, so you want to take a good few more to compensate. Usually you want to run with 6 SRM6 (artmis favoured and more srm's preferred). The Ebon Jaguar can not take more than 4 missile slots at any time and it lacks in proper support weaponry/free tonnage to punch threw and aim for crits like the Scorch or MadCat Mk II-2 can due to tonnage allowing to take lbx 20's.

At least those have been my experiances when trying out SRMs for the clan side.

Edited by Sixpack, 21 March 2019 - 10:55 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

You mean Linebackers having the tonnage to do laser-vomit and medium-pulses? likewise ERPPCs? Define "better".

but ton for ton the SRM variants are better.

linebackers can do Gauss too. whats your point? its suboptimal to put gauss on a linebacker. same goes for ERPPCs, sure you can put them on a linebacker, but theres other clan mechs that run ERPPCs way better like the summoner.

when it comes down to it the best linebacker variant is the SRM one. it puts out the most damage for the least heat. but even though its the best variant it still doesnt mean SRMs are all that great. SRMs have never done enough damage to justify having to get within 270m. Not when other weapons let you do comparable damage from medium or long range and still allow you to poke in and out of cover.

Slambot, on 21 March 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

SRM's should not be intercepted by ams

why not? theyre missiles. an anti-missile system should absolutely shoot them down.

the issue isnt that AMS shoots them down. the issue is that the missiles that get through dont do enough damage.

SRMs and MRMS need to do more damage. Its that simple really.

Edited by Khobai, 21 March 2019 - 11:44 AM.

[Prototelis]

How would you know? You don't play the game. SRMs are p.much the speed brawl weapon of choice because of their heat profile and good deeps.

You just flat out don't know what you're talking about. You don't play the game.

[Khobai]

Prototelis, on 21 March 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

How would you know? You don't play the game. SRMs are p.much the speed brawl weapon of choice because of their heat profile and good deeps.

um of course theyre the weapon of choice because there is no other choice for fast mechs that want to brawl. what else are you gonna use besides SRMs? theres no low weight ballistics other than machine guns and most lights cant spam enough of them to matter anyway. And energy weapons generate too much heat to do good sustained brawling dps after the small pulse laser nerfs. what does that leave? oh right SRMs.

you are literally just agreeing with me that SRMs are the weapon of choice.

the only difference is I realize that its not really a choice. its the illusion of choice because theres no other practical alternatives. If you lack tonnage and want to brawl you essentially have to take SRMs. Whats the point of having customization if the choices are illusory?

I would love for pulse lasers/small lasers/micro lasers to be more viable. I would love for the SNPPC to not suck. I would love to have some lighter ballistic alternatives. But they just dont exist. I would also love for SRMs to do more damage especially now that AMS is twice as effective against them.

Prototelis, on 21 March 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

How would you know? You don't play the game.

yeah youre right, Ive spent hundreds of dollars on this game, have hundreds of mechs and billions of cbills across multiple accounts, but Ive never even played the game. lmao.

do you believe the earth is flat too? or that we never landed on the moon? because thats the kindve absurdity youre spouting.

if the best argument you can come up with is that someone doesnt play the game then youve straight up lost the argument. there would be absolutely no reason for me to waste my time trying to make this awful game just a little bit better if I didnt actually play it.

Do I play the game constantly? no. I take periodic breaks from the game because it gets really stagnant and repetitive and theres a lot of other games I play besides this. So ill admit to not playing the game as often as I used to. But I definitely play the game enough to be entitled to my opinion.

And my opinion is that the game needs better brawling options. We need better small/pulse/micro lasers. We need more lightweight ballistic options besides machine guns. We need SNPPC to be better. And SRMs/MRMs need to do more damage in lieu of the AMS buffs. I wouldnt mind having more missile options either like MMLs and thunderbolts. Now if you wanna disagree with me and say all we need is SRMs, thats your opinion, but I would like more choices.

Edited by Khobai, 21 March 2019 - 12:05 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Dude, just take the L. SRMs are good for reasons beyond tonnage, and MRM's have been solid since the beginning.

[Prototelis]

Khobai, on 21 March 2019 - 11:37 AM, said:

yeah youre right, Ive spent hundreds of dollars on this game, have hundreds of mechs and billions of cbills across multiple accounts, but Ive never even played the game. lmao.

Moneyspent != playing the game.

Its obvious you haven't played in a while, you are wholly ignorant of the ingame meta if you really think only lower ton mechs use SRMS. The best lights in the game all use lasers or machine guns my dude.

[Khobai]

Prototelis, on 21 March 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

Moneyspent != playing the game.

Its obvious you haven't played in a while, you are wholly ignorant of the ingame meta if you really think only lower ton mechs use SRMS. The best lights in the game all use lasers or machine guns my dude.

Now youre contradicting yourself. You literally just said one post ago that SRMs were the weapon of choice for fast brawlers.

And now youre saying the complete opposite.

I cant have a discussion with someone who flipflops their opinion every other post. At least my opinions are consistent. I am done talking to you.

[Scout Derek]

Prototelis, on 21 March 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

Moneyspent != playing the game.

Its obvious you haven't played in a while, you are wholly ignorant of the ingame meta if you really think only lower ton mechs use SRMS. The best lights in the game all use lasers or machine guns my dude.

At this rate he's trolling. we should move on.

Khobai, on 21 March 2019 - 12:19 PM, said:

Now youre contradicting yourself. You literally just said one post ago that SRMs were the weapon of choice for fast brawlers.

And now youre saying the complete opposite.

I cant have a discussion with someone who flipflops their opinion every other post. At least my opinions are consistent. I am done talking to you.

Lights =/= only fast brawlers.

You ever heard of the linebacker? Cyclops? Arctic Wolf? What about the Kintaro? I think everyone has had enough of your opinion here, as evident by the multiple posts telling you to stop.

KursedVixen, on 21 March 2019 - 10:28 AM, said:

Annnd nobody talks about ATM Launchers.

Multiple times already stated my opinion as well as others on ATM Launchers. As illustrated in previous posts by others WEEKS ago;

"The buff to ATMs was unnecessary."

[Kubernetes]

Clearly people only run the Cyclops Q with SRMs because it's so starved for tonnage.

[justcallme A S H]

Scout Derek, on 21 March 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

At this rate he's trolling. we should move on.

Pretty much all the posts out of that individual are that.

There is never any actual fact. Just contrarian rubbish. I've proven the make-believe claims to be false, with actual facts/stats, about 5 times in the last 5 months.

Some people just can't help themselves though. They gotta say something different - or troll. One of the other.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 21 March 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

but ton for ton the SRM variants are better.

Doesn't matter, It still does other builds well.

Khobai, on 21 March 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

linebackers can do Gauss too. whats your point? its suboptimal to put gauss on a linebacker. same goes for ERPPCs, sure you can put them on a linebacker, but theres other clan mechs that run ERPPCs way better like the summoner.

It's funny how you HAVE to ask my point is, because you didn't get it. It's not about the weapon system, it's about what the mech could do. It's even funnier that you have to point out Summoner for ERPPC thinking it bolsters your own position, it actually proves my point.

Khobai, on 21 March 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

when it comes down to it the best linebacker variant is the SRM one. it puts out the most damage for the least heat. but even though its the best variant it still doesnt mean SRMs are all that great. SRMs have never done enough damage to justify having to get within 270m. Not when other weapons let you do comparable damage from medium or long range and still allow you to poke in and out of cover.

And there it is, It was never even about the Linebacker isn't it?

Actually, yes SRMs do enough damage, it's a mix of alpha, DPS, and sustained DPS. The real problem is that not a lot of other mech have the luxury of reaching the 270m, which is a completely different matter.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 21 March 2019 - 01:07 PM.

[InfinityBall]

Kubernetes, on 21 March 2019 - 01:00 PM, said:

Clearly people only run the Cyclops Q with SRMs because it's so starved for tonnage.

The maximum non-missile loadout on that thing is what, 3 LPL? It's either going to use missiles, or it's not going to be used at all

Of course, if it is used at all, that is a vote for missiles not being terrible

[Variant1]

CUTE PUPPY LUV, on 19 March 2019 - 05:07 PM, said:

Yeah I think this patch really hits Missiles hard because of the AMS buffs. But I am sure it will pass.
Right now people are using lots of AMS because of it, Missile boats dwindles. Then after a while AMS will be a dead weight. People start removing AMS. Missile boats thrive again
Repeat.

I think AMS should soften blows, with a 12 mechs with ams obviously destroying them all. But ams should destroy % amount of lrms like 2/5, 5/10, 9/15, 10/20 same with srms and moving on to each voley instead of focusing ont he first voley. That way ams softens up blows and doesnt make all missiles useless, win win for both imo.

Dee Eight, on 19 March 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

I fired an clan LRM60 tube group shot...4 AMS destroyed every missile in the volley before they reached the enemy mechs. Also all those mechs that had a flat range quirk... like four of the five panthers variants including the one with the double AMS hardpoints... that applies to AMS range also. 15 range skill nodes and that quirk and its a 237m optimal range.

i highly doubt that. had a match with both teams had ams and lrms. still got wrecked by lrms

dwwolf, on 21 March 2019 - 05:54 AM, said:

Because its now useless to take 2 or 2 launchers. Dont bother mixing them with other weapons.

ahem.

MischiefSC, on 21 March 2019 - 09:17 AM, said:

I've done so repeatedly and have done fine.

Can confirm

Prototelis, on 21 March 2019 - 09:30 AM, said:

Yeah, the AMS has died down. LRMs are strong as **** when there aren't any counters, they move so got damn fast.

even with some ams lrms can still get through